Bob White

A lot of what you read on the internet (including this board) is a persons opinion or perception not BSA program. Always use an official BSA resource. Check the Insignia Guide 2002-2004 manual, available at your local scouting service center. Temporary patches are displayed on the right shirt pocket, red brag vest, or on the back of the Merit Badge sash. Bob White (This message has been edited by Bob White)(This message has been edited by Bob White)

Trek Safely is a section of the Guide to Safe Scouting that was added in April of 2002. Bob White(This message has been edited by Bob White)

Scouts have never (going by a collection of scout leader handbooks going back decades) been required to be in uniform at all times. They should be in uniform when appropriate to the activity. It still reads like that today. If the activity is to rugged or inappropriate for the field or activity uniform wear something else. Substituting non BSA uniform pieces is simply being out of uniform. If every State trooper wore the pants he or she chose to it would cease being a troopers "uniform". Bob White

There is no such thing as class A or Class B. There is in unorm or out of uniform. There are two uniforms, the field (or dress) uniform and the Activity uniform. Scouts may salute the flag in either. BUT, keep in mind that the Activity uniform is not a troop t-shirt. It is a troop, camp or BSA t-shirt, scout pants or shorts, scout belt, scout socks. Bob White

Eagle is as high as a Boy Scout can advance. There are Palms available to enhance the rank achievement but there is no higher rank for a Boy Scout than Eagle Scout. There are other growth opportunities for a boy in Boy Scouting and for boys and girls in the Venturing program. The ranks in Venturing are not higher or lower than the Boy Scout ranks they are just different opportunities. Bob White(This message has been edited by Bob White)

It is unfortunate if mom rushed the son through. the only person that loses is the son. I agree that if the SM and the Committee chair and the BOR are satisfied them it really is a done deal. If the Scoutmaster can be convinced it might be a good idea to determine who can test the scouts. The SM conference is not where you restest. Read the SM handbook about the SM conference. Bob White

My limited information is that White Stag is a local name for the Council/ District Junior Leader Training course. many Councils across the country rename JLT to a more interesting name. My council refers to it as Birch Bark (the first JLT course put on by BP issued certificates written in birch bark). The existing JLT syllabus was based on the last rendition of Wood Badge. The current Wood Badge is all new and unique and was based on the input of 50 scout volunteers and a professional management author and lecturer. Bob White

Contact your local scout service center and request the pamphlet The First Six Months. This will help you as you take training to get the troop off to a good start and introduce the patrol method. Bob White

Actually the the ten days and nights is an old (read as outdated) figure. In order to reach First Class a scout must have been on 3 overnight camping events. The Camping Merit Badge calls for a scout to "Camp out a total of at least 20 days and 20 nights. (You may use a week of long-term camp toward this requirement.)" The Order of the Arrow calls for 15 nights of camping, 5 of which were a long term camp The Quality Unit award calls for 6 highlight activities (such as as hikes, campouts,trips, tours etc.) and attend a BSA long-term camp. So you see NONE of them call for ten days and nights of camping. That's why continued training is important. Things change. Bob White

My son's scout troop has a spaghetti dinner fundraiser this saturday. I have been committed to an Intoduction to Outdoor Leader Skills course before the dinner was set. My Son's Adventure Club at HighSchool has a weekend expedition planned that was announced after the dinner was planned. My son sold dinner tickets but is going on the club activity. I will be at training and my wife will work the spaghetti dinner. Life happens. Bob White

The easy answer is patrols are run by boys. A troop is not divided into patrols, patrols gather to form a troop. Who picked your friends that you hung around with at this age? The Sm needs to lend some guidance to this. Asking for answers when you are unable to share needed information makes giving a complete response impossible. Bob White

mk9750, Please read the Guide to Safe Scouting thoroughly! It is not about dumbing down, it's about learning from past mistakes and saving lives. Single shot rifles have been the policy of the BSA for decades. I am willing to bet that your troop doesn't legally own rifles. The troop may have paid for them but I would bet an individual or individuals names are on the ownership papers. The troop does not exist as a legal entity. The closest you can come to ownership is if your Charter Organization has ownership of the rifles. If your charter organization is unaware that the troop has bought firearms I would definitely inform them. Bob White

Scomman, Reread the Guide to Safe Scouting. Adult leaders can choose to, but they don't have to, and it is not recommended that they do. You can remind scouts to take it. You can require parents to join the outing to see that the the scout takes medicine. When you say a leader "has to" that is not correct. A Leader can "choose to" against the recommendation of the BSA. My son's troop has 39 scouts,(diabeties, allergies, ADHD, headaches, you name it) and the adults do not handle any of their medications, and it has never been an issue. It is important to know who has what with them and when thay need to take it. The scout should tell you before taking meds, but no leader "has to" store or distribute. It is a dangerous practice. Bob White

I think the advice given by the hiking physician was good if you are a physician. It would also be fine for your own personal medication. I really doubt that the article suggested medicating children. Bob White

Insignia Guide 2002-2004

Sorry Ed, but nothing you wrote in your last post is correct according to anything taught or written in the Boy scout program that I am aware of. I understand that what you wrote may be your opinion, but it simply is not part of scouting. The scouts position of responsibility was either elected by the scouts or selected by the SPL or Patrol Leader. It is not your job to remove him. That is between the scouts. The Handbook is very specific about the leadership requirement "actively serve" not just hold the office. During the scouts tenure it is your responsibility as SM to train and develop him but it is the scouts responsibility to actively serve. If the scout cannot give evidence of "active service" you are not required to sign the advancement requirement.

Just for the record I found the string in question. http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=11128&p=1 In it a comment was made by AdvanceOn "1. If he was elected or appointed to a leadership position and held it for 6 months it counts whether he did anything or not (you'll find this discussed a lot throughout this forum)." I resonded by posting "A note to anyone who feels this is what the requirement states, Please read the handbook again. The requirement is not to hold an office. The requirement says to "serve actively". There is a distinct difference." I just wanted to keep the record straight. I have always represented the requirement as it is stated in the Boy Scout Handbook. Bob

I'm up late preparing for a trip so I'll have a go at this. If you have a patrol of 5 adding 4 boys in my experience is too large of a patrol. I guess I would want to know more about the patrol they are leaving. How big is it? Why do they want to leave? why do they want to join another patrol? Why don't they just start their own patrol? why don't they fix the patrol they are in? Why are two boys making the decision for 5? If you are the SM what counseling have you given either group on this matter? Why did things get to this point? There are too many pieces to the puzzle missing to get a clear picture of what is happening. Bob White

It is important to know that only the SM can decide if he or she is willing to distribute medication. The BSA does not require nor does it recommend such a practice. Also be aware that there are some very common medications that unless you are the patient or the parent or legal guardian of the patient, it would be a federal crime for you to possess or distribute even to the patient. Bob White

If I remember the thread you are referring to the leader said the scout was at the meetings but did not have a leadership role. I asked if the scout was never offered one, or if he refused one. I also believe I asked if the scoutmaster knowing the scout needed a leadership position to advance helped to find a position for him if he was not elected or selected to one. Unless a scout refused a position he has little control as to being elected or selected. It is the SM responsibility to know the needs of each scout and to help that young man find a position to satisfy the advancement requirement. I will admit that if I was with a troop and a scout was elected to a position and was never trained to help him succeed and then the SM refused to sign his leadership role I would remove the SM and could easily be persuaded to find in favor of the scout. I would also give him a leadership role again and train him to do it. Training junior leaders is the #1 priority responsibility of the SM. If they don't get trained the fault is entirely with the SM. I have always said in my posts that the leadership requirement does not say hold office it says to actively serve. Bob White

I'm not a lawyer so I can't act as one, and most scout leaders aren't physicians or pharmacists and shouldn't act like one. The Bsa does not want us giving ANY medications other than topical applications such as anti-biotic ointments, ivy dry, calomine.... to the scouts. Read the Guide to Safe scouting. Scouts and their parents or legal guardians are responsible for a scouts medication. Stick to topical applications only. Never give a scout internal medication that he has not brought himself in the original container. Bob White

If you would like evidence that I have not done a flip flop, check the contents of my past posts. May 20, 2002 http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=10471#id_10473 July 28, 2002 http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=13117&p=2 Aug 23, 2002 http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=14511&p=2 Bob

Don't expect this to change. Training scouts to be independent is part of the program continuum. In Tigers it ios one on one with adults, in Wolf and bear dens you have two adults and just about any adult signs the advancement, in webelos it's two adult leaders and only they sign advancement, in Boy Scouts it's adults training the elected junior leaders and adults approving youth to sign advancement, in patrols it's strictly youth run, all leading to ventures with an adult adviser for each sex and youth fun (even the committee is made of youth members). The program is designed to lead youth to independent action. The patrol method is key to that goal. Safety is in the planning. If you do not trust the scouts to do what they have been trained to do then why waste the time training them? If they are not going to be able to achieve the maximum benefit of the skills they are not going to have the scouting experience that was promised to them in the handbook and that you as a leader promised to deliver. If you want to side with caution and safety (and i agree that is vital) then teach them caution and safety. If you feel the scouts can never act independently then the problem is in the training they are recieving. Deliver on the promise of scouting! Bob White

Since you asked Rooster.... Patrols are youth lead and do not require adult supervision for activities providing they have the permission of the scoutmaster. The reason is quite basic. in many communities patrol members live in the same neighborood, they play together at school around the block at each others homes. During the summer kids who aren't in scouts often get together for day activities without adult supervision. Are we going to say thet because you are a scout and trained to be a responsible person that you can't get together with your friends in your patrol and bike to the park to play? Rather than having them waste their time or get into activities that could harm them, let them do activities that make them better scouts or at least exercise their scout skills. As the scoutmaster it's your resopnsibility to make sure they are properly trained to do patrol activities, that they have a plan, a purpose, a suitable destination, and have thought out emergency plans before they go. It could be the patrol is not yet ready to solo but you could compromise and have a pair of adults within sight or earshot to see how they do. You can pull the adults further and further back until the patrol is ready to go on their own. Train them, Trust them, Let them lead! Bob White

All BSA employees are registered members of the BSA and must meet the joining requirements. Bob White