Bob White

The only voting mentioned in connection to the committee is as members of a Board of Review, in which the Scoutmaster (since he or she is not a member of the committee) has no vote. Go to training watch the video that has the committee meeting on it. Read the Committee Guide and the Cub Scout Leaders Handbook. Find a reference to voting other than for Boards of Review. Bob White

Sctmom, I think we are agreeing? The Den Leader responsibility in the Pack includes: Take part in the annual pack program planning conference and pack leaders' meetings.Those meeting are for making the plan. The pack committee meetings are for supporting the plan. The do not include the den leaders but only the cubmaster as the program leader.

On the Cub side of the transition; an active Webelos program, a year round troop interaction, a Scout Den Chief, Cubs who are well prepared to pass the scout badge requirements. A memorable crossover ceremony. On the scout side; a memorable ceremony (change their tabs, present troop #s, neckerchief etc.. Use of the New Scout Patrol program with a qualified Troop Guide, Scout Badge at their first troop meeting, First Class emphasis program (First Class in the first year). Get them outdoors.

The manual you are refering to is the Troop Committee Guide. In it you will find that it specifically states that the committee cannot change the program determined by the boys. The committee can make recommondations for the PLC to consider but it states emphatically that the program decision rests with the PLC. Troop Committee Challenge, a three-hour training course for troop committees will reinforce that part of the manual as well. Bob White

Vote on what? Where does it say that the committee operates on a majority rule? What the heck does a pack buy for $2000? Read the rest of 33 and 34 and tell me where it it says the committee votes on ...ANYTHING. It says "reports on assigned tasks" and says "assigns tasks and issues are discussed". Those tasks are assigned by the Committee Chair through cooperation with scoutmaster. I'm not saying things should not get discussed but units gridlock themselves by trying to be something they are not. The role of the committee is to support the program. Take the training you'll have a better understanding. Bob White (This message has been edited by Bob White)

Eisely, Read the Troop Committee Guide, page 12, Annual Program Planning Conference, and you will discover that "the troop committee may make alternative suggestions for the Patrol Leaders Council to consider" it does not say that the committee votes to accept it. the plan is the boys' plan not the committe's to accept or deny. Key personnel decisions are made by the Charter Organization Executive, The Charter Org. Rep. and the Committee Chair. The committee can make recommendations but they do not have the authority to make the decision. Just read the Adult Application Form. Read the responsibilities of the Treasurer and you will see that he or she pays bills on the recommendation of the Scoutmaster and the authorization of the troop committee. No Roberts Rules are need to do that. It also says the treasurer leads the preparation of the annual budget. Nowhere does it say the committee votes on it. They work on it together, its a concensus by its very nature. (This message has been edited by Bob White)

Nowhere did I say the committee member doesn't communicate with others. In fact the Committee Guide says you report monthly to the committee. You can certainly talk to others in the pack as you plan the event. You make it sound like you give the assignment out and never see or talk to the person again. The point is you don't need to vote to see if you will do a pinewood or where or when. Your program volunteers make a plan share it and the committee supports it. This is not brain surgery it does not require micromanaging. Just do the task thats asked of you. Pick cabable people and let them do the job. Keep people informed and have fun. In Cub Scouts the Cubmaster and Committee Chair make a plan based on the input of their committees. Asignments are made to the committee to make it happen. In Boy Scouts the Patrol Leaders Council makes the plan and the commiittee supports it to help make it happen., In Venturing the youth are the committee as well as the participants, with the support of adult advisors. Its called the scouting program, there are over 100 print and video resources available to help you learn it. Bob White(This message has been edited by Bob White)(This message has been edited by Bob White)

Abraiu, You say that the committes "should" establish voting roles. According to what resource or method of the BSA? Accoding to who? Why? I have had Cub Packs with nearly 100 members and troops near 50 members that operated for years without committees voting. Why saddle the process with unneeded layers of beaurocracy? Read the Troop Committee Guide it states very clearly that the Patrol Leaders Council runs the program not the adults. That's why it's BOY Scouts. Bob White

What you are refering to is a clause in the Congrssional Charter for the BSA. In it congress has said that the Scout Uniform may not imitate a military uniform. It is really pretty irrelevant though. The BSA owns the rights to the images of scouting. The rules of the BSA says that that no individual or unit may alter the Scout uniform. So it is not about everyone wearing BDUs, it would be just as wrong if everyone was told to wear jeans or red soccer shorts. Units do not have the authority to change the scouting uniform. If a boy does not have a full uniform that is one thing. But for a unit to uset local uniforming guidelines is improper. Bob White Bob White

Read the first two paragraphs on the Personal Health Record Form Class 1 and 2. Then the first paragraph on Personal Health Record Form Class 3. Finally the Guide to Safe Scouting. The BSA "recommends" and encourages that the appropriate form be used when you camp. The BSA "requires" these forms for BSA operated campgrounds and for National camps and national activities. The use of these forms for unit activities are left to the charter organizations and scouting families to determine. Bob White

Lets get something straught right off the bat, I am not writing about the BOb White System. I am saying "show me a scouting resources that says these committees run by majority rule or even Roberts Rules of Order". The training courses and resources of the BSA say that the committee chair assigns tasks to the committee member and the committee reports progress at the troop committee meeting. By no means does this strip the committee of responsibilities. it focuses their time on active progrewss rather than meaningless debate. In Cub Scouts the annual plan is determined by the Cubmaster and Committee Chair, in Boy Scouts it is made by the Patrol Leaders Council and supported by the committee. Not made by the committee or changed by the committee but "supported" by the committee. Adults looking to have some sort of authority should pick a different hobby. We teach planning and cooperation to the scouts, it would be nice to the same practiced by the adults. There is no need for two decision making bodies in either Cub Scouts or Boy Scouts. The role of the committee is to carry out the plan. If the Cub Master and the Committee Chair decide to do a Pinewood in February that is their decision to make. The committee chair assigns the event to a committee member and the committee member goes forward to make it happen. They keep the committee abreast of progress at the monthly meeting. If a Patrol Leaders Council Determines they need new tents they might ask the committee Quarter matr=er to find a selection of tents and prices. The PLC reviews the choices and votes on a selection. They find out through the Committee finance chair if they have the funds to make the purchase. If they do then the tents (selected by the scouts)are purchased (with the money raised by the scouts). If there is not enough money then the PLC can ask the4 fundraising chair to help them with ideas to raise the needed funds. After which the tents are purchased. In a proper Troop operation the boys make the decisions, after all that is the mission of scouting to teach them how to make ethical choices. The only way they will learn this is if they are allowed to practice it. That is the whole reason we as adults are supposed to be doing this. It's not about being in charge, or running the troop or pack. It's about giving kids the opportunity to leqarn practice and gow in a structure that takes them from total dependence on adults to independence. They cannot learn independence if we micromanage the program. If we can trust boys to work indendently than we certainly should be able to trust the adult committee members. Give them a job and let them make the decisions that go with the job. Please go get trained, and really pay attention while you are there! This is not my plan, this is the method by which scout units are supposed to operate. Bob white

At the risk of sounding repititious I will restate my original observation. Nowhere that I am aware of in BSA training or literature does it state that the committee operates by majority rule. If you were to take committee training you would see a video where each committee person reports on the progrees they have made or the actions taken in the area of responsibility they have been assigned. In direct response to another poster, as to who would make specific decisions. Q. Do we want cookies or cake at next month's meeting? A. The Cubmaster would let the Committee chair know and the committee chair assigns the task to the appropriate person. Q. Popcorn or wreathes? A. Fundraising Chair Q. Pinewood derby, here or there? A. The Pinewood Derby Chair Q. Capital expenditure, yea or nay? A. Program head (Cubmaster or PLC) With the Committee Chair Q. Use local talent or bring in a hitter to get rid of the SM? A. Chater Organization Executive and the Charter Organization Rep. This is not a 'majority rules' committee. This is a 'here is your assignment now run with it' committee. When in doubt go to training and read the manuals. Bob White

I did not not quote the book (note there were no quote marks). Had I said "the uniform is worn normally" (as opposed to "normally worn") then your comment would have been correct as the word normally would have modifies the worn worn. But it wasn't. None of that changes the fact the the "Dress Uniform" is descibed on page 48 of the Insignia Guide. I agree that many intermix the field and the dress uniform in conversation and I see no real harm in that as the actual dress uniform is worn so seldom. Bob White

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I would meet with the same parents and let them know you appreciate their participation but that the program administration is your responsibility and the advancement program will be operated according to the standards of the Boy Scouts of America to insure their sons have a quality scouting experience. Anyone who would like to help with that process will first need to attend tarining to learn what the correct methods of scouting are. Have the Committe Chair tell them that the SM manages the use of Assistants SM and any suggestions on how that is done needs to go through the Scoutmaster. Good Luck, Bob White

The troop committe is made of registered committee members. According to the Cub Scout Leaders Handbook and the Troop Committee Guidebook, committee members are assigned tasks by the Committee Chair and report on their progress at the monthly committee meetings. There is realy nothing to vote on. The Cubmaster or Scoutmaster, as the program chairs, make decisions with the Committee Chair the Chartered Organization Representative. The committe members each have specific job responsibilities to perform. The committee chair assigns tasks to memmbers based on their areas of responsibility. So the need for votes deoesn not exist in the month to month operations of a unit. Bob White

Thanks for volunteering! 1 Go get trained 2 Use and encourage your Den Leaders to use the Cub Scout resources; The Cub Scout Leader Handbook, Program Helps, The How-To Book, Pack and Den Ceremonies, Tge Cub Scout Song Book, The webekos Leader Handbook, all the Cub Handbooks by rank. 3 Sit down with the two committee members and the head of the charter organization let them know they need to have a committee chair and a charter organization representative and that they need to choose them. (It is not your job responsibility or within your authority.) 4 Select fun den leaders (you cant have to many) 5 There is no such thing as too well planned. have fun, Bob White

Inthe early days of cubbing most dens were lead by women. At 10 1/2 years old, for the last six months of cubbing, the boys moved to a Webeolos Den lead by an adult male. At that time you could not join Boy scouts until age 11. You will find the Webelos requirements at the back of the Lion Book. In the late 60s (67 I believe) the Webelos program was expanded when the Lion rank was dropped. But the Webelos den had already been established for over 10 years by that time. Bob White PS, According to the the Cub Scout Leader Handbook and other training resources WLOT is a required course to take Webelos camping. Other than Webelos camping there is only pack family camping allowed in Cub Scouts. To do that you must have a BALOO trained leader.(This message has been edited by Bob White)(This message has been edited by Bob White)

Don't mean to put a damper on a good story but Webelos Dens were started in 1954, so unless you folks were in Webelos 48 years ago rather than the 35 you are sighting you were not in the initial webelos program. When I started in 1963 (39 years back) my father had already been a Webelos Den Leader for two years. Bob white(This message has been edited by Bob White)

You cannot expect to recruit successfully over the phone. you MUST look the person in the eye and tell them face to face that they are important to the success of the scout unit. Janssenil, Yes there are monthly themes for Webelos and 4 planned meeting agendas just like in Program Helps. It's just that they are in a different book. You need to get the Webelos Leader Handbook. Bob White

right onthe money sctmom. The only part I disagree with is that it takes a perfect world to have a full committee, or even enough leaders for that matter. All it takes is correct recruiting. Most units (packs especially) do it wrong. They have someone stand in front of a crowd of adults and beck, threaten, plead and whine for help. doesn't work , never has, never will. 1. Identify the specific job *what are the goals *what are the resourses *what are the time constraints *What skills are needed to be successful 2 Identify people with those skills 3 prioritize your selection 4 Approach the individuals with the resources in your hand and explain the job program's importance to your community and their children. 5 Let them know you don't want just anyone . You want them. 6 Recognize them Bob White

The only official use of BALOO in scouting is the name of a training course. Basic Adult Leader Outdoor Orientation. It is a mandatory course for someone in a pack to have in order for the pack to go camping. Bob White

A good program element to use is a pre-opening activity. Somehting fun and handson that will give people who come a few minutes early an extra treat and keep them in the meeting room for when it is time to begin. the other key is to always start on time no matter what. If you regularly start 10 minutes latethe families who are always 10 minutes late will still not show up on time. instead they will be 20 minutes late. Let people know that the meeting starts and ends on time. Then stick to it. Bob White

The reason behind separate meetings is that the two groups have separate responsibilities. The Cubmaster is the program head. Den Leaders are program people. They are responsible for planning and delivering the program. The committee chair is the administrative head. The pack committee is responsible for the record keeping and support of the program desions made by the CM and den Leaders. The committee doesn't need to be in on your planning process. They just need to know the results so that they can determine how to support the plans. Den leaders don't need to be in on the process of the committee chair handing out assignments. They just need to know the committee is doing the things that need to be done to support the program. The cubmaster is the link between the two groups. By doing it this recommended way the meetings are shorter and more productive. Bob White(This message has been edited by Bob White)

sctmom, I was just addressing Stan's comments about the ptrol Method being an unreachable goal. The patrol method is just that a method, a perfectly operating troop is not only unreachable but it is not even a scouting goal. As far as your problem in not finding local units that use the scout methods, I understand your frustrations. I strongly recommend meeting with the District Key 3 (District Executive, District Chair, District Commissioner) and share your frustrations as a parent in finding a functioning scouting program. I would hope they could provide guidance through more aggressive Training and Roundtable programs to re-invigorate the use of scouting methods. The DE could visit with the COs to share his or her concern over the methods or lack of methods being employed at the unit levels. Bob White