Bob White

I agree.

kwc57, Your are absolutely right there is a difference between cub Scout and boy scout campimping. One of those differences being that every Cub Scout must have a parent, guardian or responsible adult with them on the activity. So in Cub Scouting there is no need to request the unit leader to be responsible for the medication. Secondly, yopu wrote "the prudent thing to do is make an adult responsible for holding all med" That is the entire thrust of what the Guide to Safe Scouting is saying. You cannot MAKE someone responsible. You can request them to be responsible, but they can, and the BSA prefers, that they say "no". If the medication is vital to their life then the youth needs to be capable of self-administering the meds or the parent should be in attendance. I have had diabetics in packs and troops that I have served and they have always carried their own meds, and they were well trained in how to use them. Part of having the disease is knowing how to cope with it. In order to provide the best possible care for the scout and follow state and federal drug regulations, as well as protect our volunteers from civil and criminal litigation, the BSA recommends that leaders not become involved in providing medication to other peoples children. It makes sense. Bob White(This message has been edited by Bob White)

It's important that your committee meetings not be zorn packte (by the way that's German for "anger packed" although you would never know that from his posts.) Bob White

Good point Eagle74, I have felt so bogged down with some of the outrageous violations that appear on this board that I find myself using all my time shouting the policies rather than sharing the successes that can be had. Try this at your next committee meeting, rather than vote tell the committee members you trust them and appreciate what they bring as individuals to the group. So rather than vote lets discuss the pertinent information and then allow the committees to create a plan and share it with the committee. when the plan is presented, rather than vote on it, discuss it. let the planner make the alterations they feel are best and then praise them for the work they have done. Let them know you look forward to the outcome and remind them to keep you appraised of progress. It's friendlier, faster, and develops better managers within the committee. Bob White Actual post pending Zorn's approval.

Thank you for your patience Laura. In reviewing some of my recent posts I see I have been quick to snap at folks. I have allowed my frustration with a few posters to control my etiquette and for that I apologize. I will try to be a kinder, gentler Bob White in further posts. I honestly don't see vagueness in rules of scouting, only in the procedures where variety is allowable. My whole point on the voting issue I think has been widely misunderstood. Neither the BSA nor I say you can't operate a committee by voting, just that voting is not necessary or required. In most cases it slows down decision making and bogs the meeting down in micro-management. Bob White Actual submission pending Zorn's approval. (This message has been edited by Bob White)

We ask the scout if he believes he has been an active member. Then we ask him to tell us why or why not. If the scout feels he was active, and can give us reason to believe he was, then he passes the requirement. In nearly every case where we felt a scout was inactive he readily admitted it. We then ask him what he thinks active is, and we ask him how he will change to meet the requirement. This way each scout's unique circumstances are considered and the scout is given the opportunity to evaluate himself rather than be judged by others. BW I am hopeful that this text is Zorn friendly.

Your Council can limit the number of MBs a counselor is registered for, but cannot limit the number of merit badges that he can work with an individual scout on, if he is registered for them. So a council can say you cannot register for more than five as a counselor, but cannot say that the counselor can only do three MB per scout. BW

I do not doubt for an instant that your knowledge of crap far exceeds that of any other poster on this board. Bob White

Give me a break Zorn. This isn't a term paper, and the purpose of this particular board is to discuss scouting. If you want to play grammarian then you should consider a more appropriate board. I hope this post doesn't offend your standards.

In that case Yaworski if the BSA ever decides to have a uniform that looks grungy and bum-like I'm sure they will look to you as a role model and incorporate Dickies into the uniform. Somehow I don't see that happening.

kwc57, Read about when the field uniform is supposed to be worn in the Boy Scout Handbook. It is not an activty uniform. It is not for camping, backpacking, caving, water activities, winter camp. It's for formal occasions, ceremomies, parades, appropriate troop meetings,etc. Don't wear it camping it's the wrong apparel. Don't stuff your pockets for a parade or Court of Honor. You don't hear a lot of people on bulletin boards praising the uniform because there is no sport in that. BBs seem to be the nesting ground for more complainers than supporters on almost any topic. This board is no exception. There are far more posters who don't like or don't follow the scouting program than ones that do.

I do not believe the pamphlet is current. Atomic Energy I'm pretty sure was revised this year, 2002.(This message has been edited by Bob White)

We did ceramic mugs with the course logo on it.

Half of the information:)

There are a lot of leaders who set imaginary rules for advancement in violation of the BSA policies and program. Why would you want a scout to learn outdated information. If he wants the Atomic Energy merit badge he should use the current book. Had he already begun the badge under the old book he can either finish it or transfer idwentical requirements over and finish with the more up-to-date version. Bob White(This message has been edited by Bob White)

If you are looking to have contact with youth and I was the Crew advisor I would want some info on you. I would require you to be registered. If you were only interacting with adults I would treat you as a visiting guest. Bob White

There is no limit to the number of merit badges a boy can earbn from a single counselor providing the counselor is registered and qualified for each badge. This includes the scouts own parents. pg 13 of Advancement Committee Policies and Procedures Qualifications of Counselors. Bob White(This message has been edited by Bob White)

Thank you for looking in the book sctmom. I stand corrected. The new book has the 2 meetings now as one. That is a change from the previous version and I should have checked first. Now meet me half way sctmom and admit that nowhere in the section you sight, which has a detailed agenda of the Pack Leader's Meeting, does it call for anyone to vote on anything.

I never said don't discuss things, I said there is nothing to vote on. Do you really feel that a decision cannot be made by the Chairman of the committee or sub committee unless there is a vote? If you asked someone to be the popcorn Chair it is hopefull that they were chosen because they were the best person for the job. If they are the best you could get then let them do the job. If you are the chairperson of the rummage sale and can't decide whether to start at 8 a.m. or 9 a.m. then ask for input . Listen to suggestions and make a decsion, but don't waste peoples time voting on which time to start.

ASM7 is correct. Look on page 34 of the current edition of the Advancement Committee Policies and Procedures #33088D. Bob

All in all a correct scout uniform is probably the most cost effective purchase you can make. A complete uniform runs about $75. Worn an average of once a week for a 3 year life span that is a cost of just .48 a week to wear one of the most identifiable uniforms in the world, and to show that you are a proud member of the worlds largest youth organization. Sure you want it to cost less, heck wouldn't you like everything to cost less? You want it different, your welcome to your opinion but remember no matter whose idea of a uniform we adopt you will not please all the members. You'll be lucky to completely please even half. We are such a huge organization and there are so mant divurgent opinions (and so many whiners) that you can't win. The uniform has had many variations, and it will have many more. Be patient, it will change someday and you will have all new things to complain about. Bob White

One problem at a time scoutmom. You are agreeing and disagreeing with me all at once. The desion to sell popcorn or raise funds needs to be program driven. The committee suppports the program the program is not driven by the committee. You wrote "I think communication is hindered if the committee and the den leaders do not talk face to face." Not at all, they have the cubmaster there to represent them. You wouldn't want all the committee members at your den meeting, that's not their purpose. You don't belong at the committee meeting, that's not your purpose. You wrote "asking the cubmaster to attend a monthly meeting with the committee AND a monthly meeting wiht the den leaders AND roundtable AND pack meeting." So if I count correctly that is three meetings a month for the Scoutmaster, that's fewer meetings than den leaders go to, fewer than Boy scout Leaders, fewer than most district volunteers. Only the Pack Committee Chair has fewer meetings required. nThis has no bearing on committees voting. You wrote "Also, our cubmaster attends the weekly den meetings" Sorry but thats a personal problem. The den meetings are run by den leaders. This is a problem that is separate from committees voting. You still haven't presented a situation where voting is any more effective than open conversation. Bob White

Sctmom, I don't mean to split hairs but I am sensitive about being misquoted or mirepresented even if by accident. I have said that voting wasn't required, wasn't needed, wasn't taught in the scouting materials. I never said it wasn't permitted. Ther is a big difference between "not permitted" and "not required". In your example of popcorn sales it is the troop that should decide whether to do Show and Sell or not. After all it is their time their effort their money for their program. If you expect the sale to be effective you need the boys behind it. So this should not be the committees call. In a cub Pack the decision is made through discussion with the Cubmaster, the committee chair, and the finance chair. The cubmaster says here is what the dens need, the Committee Chair says here is what we want to accomplish. The Advancement chair says this is what we expect to spend on awards. The finance chair says this is what we have, this is what we need, and the Popcorn chair says this is how we can raide it. Try another situation. I would bet that it is a boy decision or one that does not require a vote (a conversation perhaps, but not a vote). Bob White PS you have the order reversed on your meetings, The cubmaster meets with the den leaders and then goes to the committee and says this is what we are doing here is where we need your help. Not the other way around. Program drives the activity of the committee, the committee does not drive the program.(This message has been edited by Bob White)(This message has been edited by Bob White)(This message has been edited by Bob White)

Sctmom here is an example. A previous poster said what if the committee advancement chair says "we are only going to do one Court of Honor this year". first of all that committee is already off base because that is not a decision of the Advancement Chair. Secondly the Quality Unit Award calls for quarterly COHs (and why someone would volunteer to help but not want to follow the program is a mystery to me) so the committee chair would need to say "we will follow the national guideleines and do one each quarter". The planning is done by the PLC. The advancement chairmans job is to see that the COH take place and that the boys are advancing and being recognized. So in putting together the calendar the SM reminds the SPL that they need to schedule quarterly COHs. The PLC puts them on a calendar. The committee reviews the calendar and makes recommendations of possible changes. The PLC reviews the changes and enact whatever changes they choose. Lets say the PLC wants the COHs to be pot Luck dinners. The Committee chair arranges for a dinner coordinator and assigns them the task. The dinner coordinator works with; the scribe to get the dinners publicized, the SPL and SM for an agenda, The advancement chair for the awards, the COR for the space, the committee chair and the finance chair on budget and bill paying. And what is there to vote on? Nothing. Progress gets reported back at the committee meeting or sooner if needed. Hope this clarifies things, Bob White (This message has been edited by Bob White)

Did I ever say that things should not be discussed? Did I say voting wasn't permitted? Did I say that the committee members operated in secret without reporting to the committee or keeping the chairman informed? Does the phrase "fear monger" ring a bell? Every Easter I get together with my parents and 4 brothers and their wives. The twelve of us make our plans for the family Christmas party for us and the kids. The party lasts for a few days and so there are lots of plans to make, and yet, we never take a vote. We talk we volunteer we cooperate, we do our assigned tasks. No vote! Of course we keep mom, the committee chair informed of our progress. Operating a unit committee is no different. If the adults on your committee are not competent enough to make decisions on the task assigned them, then are they competent enough to to be voting on decisions for other committee functions as well? What about a committee where you have some people who understand scouting and some who don't. Why give the the ones who don't an opportunity to hinder the ones who do. A good example. If less than half the committee understands that the PLC makes the program plans, does it benefit the boys or the program to allow them to be outvoted by a majority who incorrectly think the committee should make the plan? Bob White(This message has been edited by Bob White)