Bob White

Your local council service center has a brochure on how to select uunit volunteers. It is a well thought out and very effective method. Some of the points that have been shared by other posters are included in the selection process. Read and follow the brochure and I think you will find it to be highly rewarding. Bob White

Nowhere does the patrol method say or promote no troop camping. I think you may misunderstand the elements of the patrol method. BW

Pack meetings are opem to the public. If I wanted to start a relationship with a pack I would arrive a few minutes early for a pack meeting. Introduce myself around to the leaders, offer to help set up, say I woulld like to stay and watch the meeting, then help with the claen-up. Meet the Webelos leader and say "I really enjoyed your meeting, We'd like for you to come to one of ours, how about next month?" Approach den leaders and discuss the value and use of Den Chiefs. Ask for a list of the Webelos families so that the troop can mail them an infonmation folder about Boy Scouts and the troop you serve. The only difference between the program thats on paper, and what works in real life, is taking time to work the program.

mk9750, Sorry to take so long getting back to you, it has been a hectic week. By your figures, from the three packs you are crossing over 60 to 100 percent of the Webelos from 6 packs. By National average you are way ahead of the game. Many districts are not having that success. You point out some of the same problems that Ed does and my answer is the same. Teaching cubs and their families the difference between Boy Scouts and Cub Scouts is not the job of the pack leaders, that is the troop's responsibility. They know Cub Scouting, you know Boy Scouting. They are busy putting on the cub program. It is the troop leader's responsibility to sell the Boy Scout program. The same with Den Chiefs. Don't think that a flurry of mailing and phone calls will do the job either. Recruiting Webelos, placing Den Chiefs, interacting with Packs, requires building relationships, and that is only accomplished with repeated face-to-face contact. Relationships depend on trust and comfort and you cannot do that without going to see that person and getting to know each other. Bob White

Dan, If you are refering to the nylon coil zippers found on many tents today, there is one thing I know of to prolong there life. Establish a habit that no one enters or leaves a tent through a partially opened door. In every case I've seen, these zippers get damaged by overstressing the coil while going into or out of the tent when it is only partially opened. Nylon coil is a good design because it operates easily at temperature extremes and rarely snags or damages surriounding materials. But it can be bent to where it will not interlock if misused. I have had tents in troop use with this type of zipper last over 12 years without needing replacement. BW

We have each patrol leader give a list of who is present to the scribe. He checks it and gives it to the SPL and SM. I have never tracked who was on time or late. I don't see the value. We track advancement using the each scout's handbook. Once a month we update the troop records from the handbooks. BW

I see this as a huge opportunity for child abuse. Scouts and scout leaders should not be getting MB counselors off of the internet. MB counselors must be approved by the local council office and will only be considered after completing a BSA Adult Membership Application, and a MB counselor application form. A scout wanting to work on a merit badge MUST go to the scoutmaster to get a blue card AND the name of an approved MB counselor. Those names should be locally approved and not names submitted to, or posted by, an unknown name on the internet. If a SM needs the names of approved counselors they should be communicating with their council office. This offer has red flags all over it. Bob White

Yes kc_scouting_dad , very much the same. We wanted to make sure it was meaningfull to everyone involved. BW

Although I appreciate sctmom's comparison to a high school graduation, to me the crossover ceremony has always been more of an induction into Boy Scouts rather than a graduation from Cub Scouting. During this ceremony we remove the symbols of cubbing from the scout (and present them to the parents) as we bestow the symbols of Boy Scouting to him. I have seen and used in the past a graduation ceremony for all the Webelos and then a crossover for the ones going to a troop. BW

I am on our local county's board of directors for The USMC Reserves Toys for Tots Program. There are thank you pins and othe items available as gifts from T4T to thank your scouts for their participation. There are also Plaques and certificates available to the local chapter to recognize groups and key individuals. Contact your local Toys for Tots committee and askabout them. Thanks for your participation, Bob White

Pack committees are more directly involved in program planning than troop committees. In the troop you have the Patrol Leaders Council making the plan and the role of the committee is to support the decision of the boys not to make the decisions for them as in Cub Scouts. BW

Ed is right. since you have knowledge that the event you are exposing the scouts to is not being operated in an approved fashion you would lose all liability protection if a scout was hurt on the event. BW

Actually kxc57, the BSA does not care who owns the property. It is the type of activity and the qualifications of the person handling the explosives that they are regulating. Since it involves a scouting event the BSA can set whatever restrictions they choose. they are not telling the land owner what they can do on their property, they are telling the scout leadewrs what they can and cannot do with the scouts. BW

Great tips Eagle74!

We use a 3-person tent from coleman that we only put two people in. I have also used 4-person tents and only put two people in them.

Don't expect folks outside of scouting to know how scouting is structured. Even a lot of long time volunteers don't understand that the unit belongs to the chartered organization not to the BSA. The program is the BSA's but not the unit. You should be using the church's ID#. Bob White

The assumption some posters are making in this thread is that the BSA is unconcerned with scouters who do not support scoutings values of fitness or citizenship only character, and that is not in fact true. A leader who does not support scouting values of patriotism or participating citizenship is just as likely to be removed from membership as a leader that does not support the character values. The same is true of fitness. A good example is a leader that promotes the use of tobacco or drugs is not doing their best to support fitness and can be, and have been, removed. Those kinds of things are not as controversial or news worthy and do not interfere with a vocal political agenda and so there is not as much made of them by disgruntled members or outside political action groups. But they happen none the less. Bob White(This message has been edited by Bob White)

wffarrell, You wrote "We have tried everything". What have the boys tried? It has been my experience that the boys get bored when they are doing the activities that the adults choose. What decisions does the PLC make? Bob White

NO! Besides the huge risk that a boy might be injured at the hands of a "hobbyist" handling explosives rather than a trained and certified professional, there is the financial harm that could befall every adult on that outing should a boy or boys be injured. The liability umbrella protecting scouters who follow the policies of scouting would disappear, leaving every adult vulnerable to a civil lawsuit that could devastate the family's finances. Each adult would be responsible for the cost of their own legal defense, and any fines or penalties that resultd from a law suit. In addition, the insurance companies that would provide medical care for the injuried parties, whether the family's insurance company or the scouting insurer, would turn around and sue the leaders to subrogate their loses. It's not worth the risk to anyone to violate the BSA safety policies. Bob White

We have troop tents but allow the scouts to bring their own if they want. (some have earned them through popcorn sales or other fundraisers and are very proud of them). The only stipulation is you carry your own gear, no more than two scouts in a tent, the troop is not responsible for any damage to personal gear. Bob

Native Texan, Well Done and well said. Bob White

My Grandfather was a Sea-Bee at Guadal Canal. He lost over 80% of his hearing from the constant shelling. We live the life we have today thanks to the men and women of the armed forces. Our thanks and our prayers go out today and everday to them all. Bob White

I totally agree with you Ed that it is a two way street. I just believe that up until they are ready to crossover, Troops are perfectly willing to make the Packs do all the driving. Bob White

Good Questions Ed, but let me explain why I feel the responsibility is on the troop. The Packs already have these boys and have kept them active and advancing for years. No matter what more they do, at the end of Webelos 2, these boys must leave Cub Scouts. Where they go is up to the efforts of troops to recruit and keep them. "Have they contacted the Troops in the area about Den Chiefs?" I see that differently. Den Chief is a TROOP position. Did the troop develop Den chiefs and offer them to the packs for assistance? "Have they invited the Scoutmasters to their Blue & Golds and Pinewood Derbys, etc.?" Did the troop have an adult in contact with the pack year round offering for the troop to assist in pack events? "Have they helped prepare the Webelos and their parents for Boy Scouts?" Probably not, they concentrated on delivering the program in the Cub Scout Handbooks. It is our responsibility as troop leaders to deliver what is in the Boy Scout Handbook. Too many troops wait for the cubs to come running in their doors, as if they have nowhere else to go. This is our party, it is our responsibility to invite the guests and make it a good party. Most people won't come to a party they haven't been invited to, and they won't stay if we don't make the feel welcome. When it comes to recruiting and keeping scouts the ball is in our court and we owe a debt of gratitude to the cub leaders who have gotten these boys through the Cub Scoout program. Bob White

Friendlyduck, A very good topic. If you can determine what is affecting Webelos transition in your community you could probably find a way to improve the crossover rate and help fullfill the commissioners mission. I would focus on the troops, only because the packs have done their job. They kept the boy interested for 4 years or so and have brought them to the Arrow of Light. In my opinion Webelos recruitment is 99% the responsibility of the troops and most troops do a bad job of it. I would suggest surveying the troops and find out what their membership increases were from January to April of last year, these are the months when most Webelos cross over (you can get these figures form your District Professional). Compare those numbers to how many cubs got their AOL (your district advancement chair should be able to help with that). I would then contact the troops and see how many of these boys remain active in scouting. Then ask questions like. Do you have an individual assigned to work with Webelos Dens during the year? Do you have a scout acting as a Webelos Den Chief? How many Webelos dens did you invite to a troop meeting? How many came? How many Webelos dens did you invite to a troop outing? Do you use the New Patrol Method? Do you have an Assistant Scoutmaster just for the new scouts? Do you have a Troop Guide assigned to each New Scout Patrol? Do you use the First Class Emphasis program? Do you have a orientation night for new members and their families? Then compare how the recruitment and retention rate in a troop compares to the number of the above mentioned program elements they use. I hope you will share the results with us. Good Luck Bob White