Bob White

Zahnada, If membership numbers are what determines the success of the scouting movement to you then I have good news. I was in Dallas the last few days and got a chance to stop at the national council office for the first time. At the reception desk there was a flyer with the current membership figures. As of December 31, 2002 the BSA had 3,326,555 youth in traditional scouting (I believe that is a growth of nearly 300,000 youth since last year). They were led by 1,230,253 adult volunteers in the traditional programs. They were supported by 4,209 professionals and scouting employees. Add in Learning For Life members and leaders and you will have a total of over 6,330,000 youth and adults in scouting. Now if you would allow me to approximate that about 1/3 of the US population of about 300 million are not eligible to be members due to being boys under 7, girls under 14 or because of a lack of religious duty or ineligble due to sexual preferences that would leave about 200,000,000 eligible members. So about one of every thirty people in this country are CURRENTLY in scouting. That does not even take into consideration the millions that have been scouts that are still alive and participating in other ways in their communities. So you see the program is doing just fine thank you for your concern. Bob White(This message has been edited by Bob White)

Other than some new merit badge updates I have not heard of any advancement changes. BW PS Don't worry about the trees. The ones used for paper manufacturing are planted and harvested as a crop for just that purpose. No one is knocking down old growth forests to make scout handbooks.

I think what we have here is a situation of miscommunication and not one of adding requirements of incompetence on anyone's part. Acco40 asked the office about joining reqirements. The joining requirements are that the boy must be out of the fifth grade, or 11, or have earned the Arrow of Light Award. In most cases this will place the boy in scouting at about 10 1/2 years old at the earliest. Acco40's son for instance will be 10 years and three months when he gets his AOL in Februrary and crosses over at that time. Now lets say that he receives his scout badge at the first Troop meeting (remember that is not a rank!), it normally takes about 3-4 months to complete all the tenderfoot requirements at which point he would be 10 1/2 when he gets his first rank. I think perhaps the office person was trying to say that they cannot accept any rank advancement on a boy until his is of proper JOINING age. As others have pointed out the is no age requirement on the ranks, but there are limitations on joining and the scout cannot earn the Scout Badge and begin working on advancement until he meets the joining requirements. BW(This message has been edited by Bob White)

Talk to the Scout Executive...no dog is that hungry. I do not know the exact page count.. never needed to use them in all these years, I just needed to know that they existed and where they were. Very very little in them has to do with unit operation. The books are more for Council operation, to keep the program operating within the legal regulations of being a not for profit corporation. The thing to know when it comes to units and equipment is that the unit does not exist as a legal entity at any level. It is a function of the Chartering organization, and as such does not hold ownership of anything. A unit cannot legally hold deed to property or vehicles. The unit cannot sign a contract of any kind since it is not a legal representative of the Charter organization or the BSA. When a unit dissolves the BSA will ask that the resources continue to be used to benefit youth since that was the purpose for the use of the equipment when it was obtained. If the Chartering organization has other youth activities that would benefit from the assets of the former unit the BSA would ask that the equipment or funds be used for that group. If the Chartering organization does not have another youth outlet then the BSA will ask for control of the assets since the equipment was obtained using the image, reputation and name of the Boy Scouts of America. Keep in mind that the majority of ownership belongs to the Chartering Organization and the least ownership belongs to the unit leaders and the committee. The unit has a responsibility to show good stewardship for the equipment, but they do not own it. Bob White

Every Council Service Center in the BSA has a current copy on hand of both of these publications. Go to the office and ask to rwead and photo copy the section that interests you. ( Thanks but no payment is needed, Scouts do not accept rewards for doing good turns. )

The BSA does not require or recommentunit by-laws. I have never seen a situation when unit bylaws were needed. I have seen where they caused uneccesarry division and hostilitiy within a unit. Everything you need to operate a quality scouting program is in the Boy Scout handbook and the resources of scouting (leader training, Advancement Policies and procedures, Guide to Safe Scouting, Insignia Guide, Committee Handbook, Scoutmaster Handbook. Even how to evaluate Scout Spirit can be found in the Boy Scout Handbbook. To set artificial measurements would be in violation of the advancement program (that rule is in the Advancement Committee Policies and Procedures manual) so there is no need for a unit by-law to control it. My sugeestion is don't waste time creating rules that aren't needed or exist through the BSA. Bob White

To want Scouting to change to conform to the morals of the world around us has never been the goal or purpose of scouting. Those scouters that use the methods and ideals of scouting understand that we develop leaders not followers. We do not volunteer our time to develop adults who can be swayed by the noisest opinion, but to come to their own decisions based on the best qualities of adult character and moral foundations. They may not always be the opinions held by the loudest or even the majority but then the majority is not always right, nor are the loudest. The BSA program succeeds when a young person is confronted with difficult choices and makes a good decision based on the character traits and abilities that were learned in scouting. It is not based on the number of members, the number of Eagle Scout ranks awarded, or what the media chooses to report or not report. If you feel the program in your community is not doing what it can to be the best scouting program it can be then step up and make a difference, or step aside and make room for someone who will. Bob White

Greetings from Dallas, Texas. Man it's cold here. I left the comfort of freezing in central Illinois to come here for a few days and frreze in exas. somtimes life aint fair. While here I snuck away from work to go to the new scout Museum. you have to come. The rockwell art gallery alone is worth the trip. n top of that there are a lot of interactive activities for the scouts of all ages. animitronis figures telling the history of our movement, beautiful photos and memoribilia of our scouting history. I had the great fortune of meeting Tommy Thomas and Jim Dunkley. two outstanding volunteers who help guide you through the exhibits and obviously love scouting. The cost to enter is only 5 and worth every penny. This is my first time to Dalas, you texans have a right to be proud, it is a wonderful city. Bob White

Greetings from Dallas, Texas. Man it's cold here. I left the comfort of freezing in central Illinois to come here for a few days and frreze in exas. somtimes life aint fair. While here I snuck away from work to go to the new scout Museum. you have to come. The rockwell art gallery alone is worth the trip. n top of that there are a lot of interactive activities for the scouts of all ages. animitronis figures telling the history of our movement, beautiful photos and memoribilia of our scouting history. I had the great fortune of meeting Tommy Thomas and Jim Dunkley. two outstanding volunteers who help guide you through the exhibits and obviously love scouting. The cost to enter is only 5 and worth every penny. This is my first time to Dalas, you texans have a right to be proud, it is a wonderful city. Bob White

a tip of the hat and scout salute to accu40. I agree whole heartedly that this is not the scoutmaster's problem. this is a patrol paroblem, which the scoutmaster can help counsel the atrol Leader on how to handle IF the PL asks for help. as leaders our job is to train the junior leaders. I would strongly recommend that a SM not get his dander up over a scout in a patrol leaving early regardless of what his reason is. if the patrol continues to function and the patrol leader is not concerned then there is no reason for the SM to be concerned. Focus on training the patrol leaders on how to build teamwork and how to know and understand the needs and characteristics of his patrol members. BW

a tip of the hat and scout salute to accu40. I agree whole heartedly that this is not the scoutmaster's problem. this is a patrol paroblem, which the scoutmaster can help counsel the atrol Leader on how to handle IF the PL asks for help. as leaders our job is to train the junior leaders. I would strongly recommend that a SM not get his dander up over a scout in a patrol leaving early regardless of what his reason is. if the patrol continues to function and the patrol leader is not concerned then there is no reason for the SM to be concerned. Focus on training the patrol leaders on how to build teamwork and how to know and understand the needs and characteristics of his patrol members. BW

My point littlebillie is that scouting has never based its decisions on membership solely on genetics and so why would it choose to do so for homosexuality? The BSA's stance has nothing to do with the origin or "cause" of any sexuality. If it was proved that atheism was caused by the presence or lack of a particular gene it would not make atheism more in keeping with our mission nor atheists more welcome as members. Bob White

So then littlebillie we agree that since no other membership guideline is determined merely by it's genetic origin then we could expect no change in the requirements should a genetic link be found with homosexuality. BW

littlebillie, I'm not sure why the discovery of a genetic link would alter the membership policy. I'm pretty sure that being female has been proven to be genetically linked but I do not know of any plan to change the membership guidelines for cub Scouts or Boy Scouts because of that. Bob White

Where does The BSA bad mouth homosexuals? I have seen far too many instances of adult volunteers denigrating individuals due to their sexuality, but not the BSA. Just because they say that a group does not meet membership qualifications does not mean that the BSA is against that group. Scouts are not taught to hate girls below the age of 14 because they can't be scouts. Are Scouts taught to hate boys in Kindergarten because they can't be scouts? Look at other organizations. The marines recently rejected a fine young man, an Eagle scout and honor student for having a mild case of Asthma. Do the Marines teach hatred for Asthma sufferers. of course not. They have a mission to fulfill and they know what characteristics best support that mission. Scouting does not teach hate toward any group in our society. The BSA sets membership requirements based on the mission of their program, but they have never taught hate. Some individual volunteers do and they are wrong to do so. But as you know we have a few volunteers doing things wrong all the time. We can tell them how to do the program and they don't. We tell them how not to do the program and they do. That's just something you have to accept will happen to some degree when working with volunteers from every walk of life. It is unfortunate, and often embarrassing, but it is not the Scouting program that is flawed it is the individual's heart. BW

I believe the actual culprit with concrete is the same reason we warn scouts not to use sedimentary rocks to ring a campfire. Like concrete, this rock type is usually formed in water or is porous. When concrete or rocks have even minute water droplets trapped in its structure and it is heated to a high enough temperature the trapped water vaporizes and the resulting trapped pressure explodes the rock. BW

I would certainly try to counsel the SPL or PLC to make the right decision on when the "proper" time is for lights out, by taking into consideration the camp ground rules, type of activity, needs and charracteristics of the boys, etc. However, the health and safety of the group is the responsibility of the adult leaders. This is an area where if the scouts do not make the correct decision the adult leader must step in and see that the job gets done. BW

My prayers go out to our injured friend and his family. These sort of crimes are so senseless. we recently had the husband of a local alderman murdered outside a busy grocery store by a mugger for less than $15. I wish I knew the solution, it breaks my heart to see such good people destroyed like this. BW

Thank you to the scouters on this board who were concered about my absence. I'm flattered that my lapse in participation was missed by some (and I'm sure was a relief to others). My parents had a serious medical situation to deal with that began just before Thanksgiving and is now in the final stages of resolution. I'm happy to say that all is now well and thanks to a very early diagnosis and the grace of God guiding the surgeon's hand my mother is enjoying a full recovery, and according to recent tests, is now cancer free. My thanks to those who contacted me personally and shared your concern and prayers. I know that many of you, had you known the circumstances, would have offered your support as well. It was not possible to participate on the forum due to the logistics and chaos that surrounded my family for these last several weeks. I hope to return from time to time to rejoin the conversations. Your friend in scouting, Bob White

Make sure the scouts understand that to be "physically strong" and Mentally Awake" requires healthy habits, like proper amounts of rest. Set a reasonable lights out that gives the scouts (and the leaders) at least 8 hrs of sleep. Playing reville is fine if you are the only campers around for quite a distance. It is not good etiquette to wake others outside your group just because it is time for you to get up. My other complaint about reville is that I go outdoors to enjoy the sites and sounds of nature. Once the horns start playing and pots and pans start ringing then the wildlife disappear. I find the best method is to have an agenda and stick to. If the scouts get behind, then they miss that portion of the activities. We have the SM quietly wake the SPL, the SPL wakes the PLs and the PLs wake their own patrol members. Bob

Eisley and TwoCubDad are correct. District identification patches are not authorized for wear on any location of the BSA uniform. Temporary activity patches (not ranks) may be displayed on the back of the MB sash. Bob White

What happened more than likely is that the current program chair let it be known that he wanted to step down and the DE tried to help him find his replacement. This is a very common but incorrect practice. Selecting sub-committee chairs is the responsinility and authority of the District Chair. Although the recommendation of the out-going sub-committee chair is appreciated and considered it is not required for the District Chair to accept it. Your District Chairman quite likely had another candidate he/she wanted to work with. It was tactless and unfortunate that the DE did not explain the nomination process or inform you when the chair made a different decision. Hope this helps, Bob White(This message has been edited by Bob White)

There are two other books by the same author that I strongly recommend to improve your skills as a volunteer leader. for scoutmasters- Leadership and the One-Minute Manager for Unit Commissioners- The One-minute Manager Meets the Monkey Outstanding tools for developing other people. BW (This message has been edited by Bob White)

I don't have a one with me at the moment but the instructions used to be in the BSA Field Book. here is a web link with very good graphics on making the commando rope. http://members.aol.com/troop632/trailhead/toggle.htm Hope this helps, Bob White

I think the list you got from your scouter friend is very, very good. There are only a few differences in what I would look for. #3 I would look for patrols that are boy lead and adult trained. #4 does the troop get outdoors every month (it is not required to go camping every month to have a good program, and for a new patrol or troop camping monthly is a real byrden. but there should be an outdoor activity every month. In some other things to consider, #4 I would not use an Eagle count as any kind of an indicator of a good scouting program. It is more of a reflection of the individual. A lot of eagles could mean a strong program or a merit badge factory. A few could mean a weak program or a consistently good one. So counting eagles doesn't tell you much. #6 OA is an individual activity for a scout, I would not judge a troop by it. Other than that I think your friend gave you some excellent points to consider. Good luck in your search BW