Bob White

Powderhorn and Woodbadge are not the same. It is recommended that Venturing leaders attend both at some point. Woodbadge is about leadership. Powderhorn is outdoor skill based. There have been very few Powderhorn courses so far beause of the scope and newness of the course. It teaches Venturing leaders the resources, safety and planning needed for high adventure activities as well as some hands on skills. BW

I just checked the current cost of Philmont for a family of four. Mom,dad, one teenager and one under 6 would be about $810 for 7 days. That's Room and board and all activities (no tipping allowed). Try visiting a 6ft mouse on that kind of budget. BW

Merlyn, An analogy is an inference that if two or more things agree with one another in some respects they will probably agree in others. Since scouting does not agree with the actions of the white supremists that you sited in your example, then it was not an analogy. Perhaps you meant a simile, where two totally different things are compared, often by using the words 'like' or 'as'. Like in "just as a white supremist". Or perhaps, as I have offered in the past, you are just a very angry person who really doesn't know what he means. Anger blows out the lamp of the mind. Robert Green Ingersoll (I think that was a metaphor.) Bob White (This message has been edited by Bob White)

"If you'll bother to notice (which I doubt), I've been talking about the Boy Scouts' unethical practices of getting public funding for their supposedly "private, discriminatory" club, as illustrated by the Old Baldy lawsuit. The BSA doesn't seem to want to "play" by the government's rules on HUD grants. This is still just a personal opinion and has not been determined to be true by a court of law. You seem stuck on treating accusations as fact. The only fact so far is that they have been accused of wrong doing, it has yet to be proven that they did anything wrong. You have a nice rant going it's just a little premature. I think most of us are willing to leave it in the hands of a real judge, and if there has been mistake made I'm sure that the BSA will accept whatever penalty is handed down and continue their mission for youth. If the charges are false, then I'm sure you will continue to rant and the BSA will continue its mission for youth. Your comparison of the Scouting organization and it's volunteers to white supremists exemplifies your total lack of knowledge about this organization and what it does. Anger has a way of distorting one's vision I suppose. Best of luck in your continuing litigations, Bob White(This message has been edited by Bob White)

I apologize to both twocubdad and to SC-PACK428 for confusing the two posts. I agree there is nothing wrong with trying to find a way to make a smaller flag it just seems to me to be the more difficult of all the options. I do not see how the BSA is greedy because of limited flag sizes but each to his own opinion. I just don't see the need to attack the program over this issue. BW(This message has been edited by Bob White)

I don't understand why all the other patrols pick on us Bobwhites. we may be the smallest of the patrol mascots and the lowest on the food chain among them. But even if the bears, foxes, or eagles devour us... we always work things out in the end. Bob

Merlyn, We see it differently you and I. I wonder if the funding would bother you as much if we allowed you to be a member? How much of your hostility is born of citizenship and how much is anger you brought on yourself from making a choice to reject the rules of the game and then being mad because you aren't allowed to play. I personally have difficulty accepting abortion as a version of birth control. I am not happy that my government funds it. But that is the law. Although I don't like the law, I don't judge, punish, or chastise the people who agree with it or have abortions. Why, because that is not my responsibility, I leave that to a higher authority, one that you don't believe exists. So since you do not accept the higher authority, you take on the responsibility to judge, punish and chastise the people with whom you disagree. That's a lot of hostility to carry. Ever wonder why the BSA doesn't think you should teaching children? We will have to agree to disagree here Merlyn. You see nothing positive the BSA has to offer, and I see nothing positive that you choose to offer. BW

You are correct,I suppose there might be some 8 year old 4th grader out there somewhere, but I would doubt he had time from his studies to be a Webelos Scout. You are right though, technically if he was promoted to fourth grade at 8, and had completed the AOL in fifth grade at 9, he would be eligible to crossover. Unfortunately I don't feel that he would benefit from the experience. Just because he is a head of the curve academically he is still a nine year old in most respects and the Troop program would be inappropriate. Bob White(This message has been edited by Bob White)

I hope you are speaking out of frustration and not from thinking long and hard about this. It would not be possible to produce a flag at every possible size to fit every opinion. In over 30 years in scouting and working with hundreds of units this is the first time that anyone has said to me a 3X5 nyon flag is to big and heavy. The problem again is not the flag. Weigh the flag against the ribbons and pole and you will see where your problem lies. You said the flag is "permanently" attached to the pole. I truly doubt that. It is attached through two eyelets in some manner. If you are getting this disgusted over a small n ylon flag how in heaven do you handle the real problems in your life. You have other options then a smaller flag. Please consider them. Bob White

The advancement requiorements for Cubscouts would prohibit a 9 year old from earnng the AOL. The problem here is that the parent does not understand the methods of the various scouting programs. She needs to see the New Leader Essentials Training to understand that the programs have been developed to be appropriate to boys at specific ages and stages of their social, physical and emotional development. the Boy Scout program is not appropriate in it's activities for a 9 year old. Not only would they be beyond many of his current capabilities socially but could be physically dangerous as well. BW

Merlyn staes that the individual is a high ranking BSA official, and uses his quotes as the views of the BSA. Schmidt is not a high ranking official, he is not spokesperson for the policies and views of BSA, and his training methods and opinions were his own not the BSA's. The things Schmidt said do not even appear in BSA leader training. Merlyn however did not represent Schmidt as one volunteers opinion, he represented him incorrectly as a representative for the BSA. My point in all this being Merlyn has little understanding of a program he seems to hold great hostility towards. I believe my dealings on the board with Merlyn have been far more fair and balanced than Merlyn's approach to the BSA program. Just one person's opinion. BW (This message has been edited by Bob White)

It's kind of difficult to explain in a short post. If were simple it wouldn't take nearly 6 days to do. Every other training in scouting is on the specific role and responsibilities for a specific adult position. Or about teaching a set of skills at a youth participants specific developmental stage. Woodbadge for the 21st Century is about YOU. It is sharpening your personal saw. How to identify and achieve a legacy for yourself. Learning leadership skills that go far beyond how to have a good meeting or build a fire with two matches. It is about seeing the bigger vision not only in scouting but in all aspects of your life and the skills needed to achieve those visions. Woodbadge can give you the tools to be a better scouter, neighbor, spouse, parent, employer, employee. Where it takes you however is up to you. You write your own ticket:). I used to be a Bobwhite, and a good old Bobwhite too...

Now Ed, I'm going to type this really slow for you. Start by reading the entire policy as it appears in the current Guide to Safe Scouting The Boy Scouts of America prohibits the use of alcoholic beverages and controlled substances at encampments or activities on property owned and/or operated by the Boy Scouts of America, or at any activity involving participation of youth members. Adult leaders should support the attitude that young adults are better off without tobacco and may not allow the use of tobacco products at any BSA activity involving youth participants. All Scouting functions, meetings, and activities should be conducted on a smoke-free basis, with smoking areas located away from all participants. So Ed, the policy in bold print says that you cannot smoke in front of the scouts or allow smoking in front of scouts, play with the words as much as you want to promote controversy on this board, but I have to believe that you know what the rule means, and I hope you follow it. It also 'recommends' that if you must smoke you must do so out of sight of the participants. Think Ed, it would be silly to have a policy that says you "MUST" smoke away from the participants, because maybe I don't like to smoke. So it says that if you need to smoke you must do so out of sight of the youth participants. Maybe what would help is if you learned the rule my parents taught us as scouts when they were unit leaders. "the only acceptable time to smoke, is if you are on fire!" BW (This message has been edited by Bob White)

Evmori, If you read the Guide to Safe Scouting you will find "BSA Rules and Policies Bold type throughout the Guide to Safe Scouting denotes BSA rules and policies." So I am not saying the policies are in bold type, the BSA says it. Regular type text is recommendations and explainations. So what the Guide is telling you is that you are not allowed to use tobacco in front of the scouts. But it gives you the option to not smoke at all or in specific smoking areas located away from all participants. Last year at Philmont, due to dangerous wild fire conditions, that location was in your car. I walked out of a seminar to find 8 or 9 adult leaders kneeling on the ground between some parked cars trying to hide themselves from the view of the staff while they grabbed a cigarette. What a pitifull view. Breaking the camp rules as well as state fire regulations, endangering the other participants and that wonderful camp, just because they couldn't walk over and get in their own cars. They were told to either get in their cars to smoke or to go home. I hope they chose the latter. What a wonderful example of leadership they must set at home. It's a shame there is not a class photo of them cowaring on the ground with their cigarettes that could be sent home to display in their meeting rooms. (Trustworthy?, Courteous?, Obedient? Brave?) Tobacco does not belong at scouting events and especially not when children are present or in view of children. Bob White (This message has been edited by Bob White)

ASM1 I will presume you refer to New Leader Essentials not Fundamentals, and all I have ever said is that they cannot smoke in front of the youth and I have quoted the specific text from the Guide to Safe scouting. You and I agree that the adult must be out of sight of the youth, and that is what I have said the policy is.(This message has been edited by Bob White)

Thanks KS, for what you said and for what you do. BW

As long as the parent is a registered MB counselor for that particular MB it's okay. BW

An optional advancement recognition for scouts working on Tenderfoot, Second Class and First Class ranks is called The Boy Scout Advancement Kit. The kit includes a leather totem worn on the belt which has a scout First Class insignia embossed on it. From the patch hangs three leather thong strands. As the scout completes various requirements from the first three ranks he receives a white, green or red bead to put on the appropriate strand. It is a type of instant recogogition program used to reward the scout between rank badges. The kit is item #WWO-1998 and sells for $3.25. I hope this helps, Al

The scout is not registered until the Council registrar enters their info onto scoutnet. It the responsibility of the parents, and troop leaders to process the form quickly and correctly. It is council's responsibility to entrer it soon after they receive it. Bob White

That seems to be a tough thing to do now days Nate. It used to be very common for patrol members to all be in one neighborhood but that's not the case as much anymore. Check out the SPL handbook you will see that the suggested method is for patrol meeting time at every Troop meeting, about 20 minutes. Some patrols may develop their own meetings away from the troop, bit until then try following the agenda suggested in the SPL handbook. Bob White

Hi Nate, Congratulations on being elected Senior Patrol Leader. Sounds like you have a spirited bunch of scouts on your hands. Here are some tips that might help. Don't try to tell the troop what to do. Instead build a leadership team with the Patrol Leaders. Remember the patrols are their responsibility. Your job is to help them to coordinate their efforts for the benefit of all. I can appreciate the efficiency of the chat board but first you need to be a team read through the new SPL handbook and then do a weekend campout with just the Troop leaders you and the Patrol Leaders. Come to an agreement as to what a troop is and what it means to live the scouting ideals. Agree to who you want to be and how you all plan to get there. Then have a one day workshop with the other members of the PLC and let them understand their role in reaching the troop goals. Then plan some cool events. Never go back to the same place twice in a year. Don't go camping. Go do things and camp overnight when your done. Did you hear the difference? Camping is just eating and sleeping outdoors, what are you doing the rest of the time. That is what you need to spend time planning. Go fishing then camp, go repair a path at a park and go camp, go build and install Wood Duck houses and then camp out. Don't go camping Go Do Stuff and then spend the night outdoors. Use the stuff you do as the leverage for getting things done. If you oversleep you will miss doing the stuff. If you do not learn to cook and clean-up efficiently you will miss stuff. If you don't participate you will miss stuff. When you have a good program you don't need a bunch or artificial rules. If you don't scout well you will miss good stuff. That is all the leverage you will need. Above all, don't just repeat the Oath and Law, LIVE THEM. A friend in scouting, Bob White(This message has been edited by Bob White)

sure littlebillie, it's in the text of my last post. There are several pages to the thread. BW

Merlyn, you wrote RE: Atheist leader to be expelled from BSA Posted: Thursday, October 31, 2002: 12:37:36 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "And didn't you question how Schmidt got to be a high-ranking BSA official with such an opinion?" Yet on 2/8 you write "That seems to be a difference of opinion on what "high ranking" means; there are hundreds of members of the House, but I'd still say each member is a high ranking government official." A congress is a high ranking government official, a District Committee Chair is not a high ranking BSA official. He or she is not even a BSA official. They are a local community volunteer. My point being it might help to take the time to better understand who and what you are fighting against. BW

Just I follow up. Bob White wrote to Merlyn "You have shown you have little to no knowledge of our mission, aims and methods and you have shown an alarming lack of knowledge on the volunteer and professional structure of the organization." Merlyn responded "Where? What, exactly, have I posted that shows this?" In October 2002 in a thread about an atiest scouter who had his membership removed, Merlyn repeatedly referenced a high ranking spokesman for the BSA. As the thread progressed it turned out he was refering to a local volunteer named Glen Scmidt. Glen is a District Chairman, not high ranking, there are about a thousand District executives in the country. Glen is not a BSA spokesman, he is not even a BSA professional and he has no authority to speak for the BSA. Merlyn also speaks of a District Commissioner Chair, and there is no such position. Point made. BW

Consider moving the ribbons to a separate display pole and mounting the flag to a lighter pole. A pine stand with a wide base would be lighter for travel and work just as well. Since you know the smallest the flag comes is 3X5 perhaps it would be easier, cheaper and more efficient to modify the things around the flag than to modify the flag itself. Don't raise the bridge, lower the river. BW