Bob White

I took the on line training yesterday also. After having presented the live and in person training 26 times in the last 12 months I do not detect any missing information. There is one answer I do not care for as far as the wording and I will wwrite national to suggest a correction. Other than that I thought it was excellent and I'm lighting fires under some local feet to get it available through our Council's web-site. Bob White

Stan, I am not asking if a person who smoked benefitted the scout. Or if a tobacco plantation benefitted the scout. I am asking how the use of tobacco products in front of the scout develops his character. My apologies if that was unclear in prior postings. Bob White

The only thing I see the first year emphasis being guilty of is keeping more scouts in the program through the first year then in troops where it is not used. The same with patrols grouped by age. It allows you to present age appropriate training and activities to an entire patrol or patrols. OGE is right that the First class emphasis is not mandatory very little of the scouting program is. Although rules and policies exist the vast majority of the program is made of recommendations and best prractices. The troubleis that boys come to scouting with certain expectations and the Boy Scout Handbook mkes cetain promises. Unless leaders fulfill those expectation s and meet those promises the scouts will not feel they have recieved the program they expected. One of the promises made in the opening pages of the Boy Scout Handbook is that they will make First Class around the end of their first year. There is a big difference betwen the first three ranks and the last three. In the first three everyone learns and does the same things. In the last year each scout can advance doing nearly totatlly different things and holding totally different offices. Tenderfoot to first class is designed to do as a team, Star life and eagle are designed to be achieved reflecting the individual interests of each scout. And they are meant to be done at each scouts individual pace. I see no difference between a scout leader who is trained and follows the program be they male or female. It is not necesarry to have been a boy scout to be a good scout leader.Many good male scouters were never scouts. The key is not their sex but their ability to be good leaders and live the ideals of scouting. Littlebillie how many scouts are in the program and how many are available to the program are two separate statistics and scouting keeps both. Think of the Nielson ratings they measure the number of TVs tuned to a show and the percentage of tvs tuned to the show of all those that were turned on at that time. The BSA does too. An increase in ether number is good, an increase in both is great. Bob White

http://www.scouting.org/philmont/ptc/courses/courses.cgi?by=dat BW

Stan, I live right near St.Louis that doesn't make it right for us to have a Budwieser in front of the scouts. My question remains. What are the benefits that tobacco has in developing the character of young people? Bob White

I'm sorry Ed with all the back and forth of "what does the policy say" and "What doesn't" the policy say" I completely forgot all the positive attributes that smoking in front of the scouts brings to the program and to the youth members. If you have a few minutes could you remind us of the benefits that tobacco has in developing the character of young people. Also I understand that as the unit leader we are responsible for the health and welfare of the scouts during scouting activiities. How again does smoking and tobacco use help us to do that? We don't need the entire list of benefits just a couple would be enough to jog our memories. Thanks, BW

I think the days of starting Councils is pretty much over. Unless a current council develops a strong enough, wide enough financial base to where it can divide into two councils. You have to remember that councils first started to appear in 1916, so over the last 86 years the entire geography of the Us and it's territories have been covered. Within each council the geography is dived into districts. I am not aware of any piece of inhabited ground that does not already reside in a district in a council. All current Council charters are renewed on an annual basis with the National Council in Irving Texas. BW

The 5% figure came from a visit from Terry Larson, Director of Boy Scout Advancement, to our Philmont training seminar. It is the highest figure in the 92 year history of the program. This is by no means a low number. The Eagle Scout rank is designed to be a rarity. One reason for the increase is we have had an ovwerall increase in members over the last 10 years. Personally I attribute a portion of it to adult leaders who mistakenly measure the success of their troop program by the number of Eagle Scouts they have, and on the number of troops who misuse the merit badge advancemet program as their primary troop meeting activity. For most of the 70s and 80s the Eagle ratio fluctuated between 2% and 3% as I understand it. In the 90s it grew into the 3%-4% range and in 2002 slightly exceeded 5%. BW(This message has been edited by Bob White)

It won't be bad at all if you go get trained NOW. Work with your committee Chair to select and recruit an assistant and go get trained together so that you can develop a unified vision of how things are going to progress. There is a pamphlet your DE can get you that outlines the first 6 months of meetings and activities to get a new troop or Scoutmaster rolling. Good luck and keep in touch, Bob White

I think he's got it! By jove he's got it! Right on the money Quixote. Thanks, BW

Congratulations kwc57, great job. One correction the national ratio for Eagle scouts is 5%, so you are still above the average (it hasn't been 2% since a decade ago). BW

There I several points I would offer comment on. I doubled checked, and there is nothing in the Cubscout program that says Blue and Gold is a good time to have the cub rank advancement completed. It is not iin the training material, the leaders guide or the boy's handbook. The only advancement guide is that the Den Leader should work to make sure the scout advances by the end of eligibility period by age or grade, and there are exceptions for that as well. The best time for the cub to advance is after he has completed all the requirements. The purpose of the Blue and Gold is to have a Birthday Party for Cub Scouting. If the scouts were ready to advance at the B&G that's fine but it should not be the program goal. The one exception is Webelos graduation and crossovers. By February most Webelos IIs are 18 months along and have completed Arrow of Light. It is never a good idea to have a Unit Commissioner (which is a District position not a Council one) commission a unit they or their spouse leads. It's impossible to be objective when you have ties that close. I highly recommend that families looking to join be directed to the Cubmaster. It is the Cubmaster's responsibility to make sure the youth is eligible, sign the application and introduce them to a Den. Your problem could have been headed off way in advance by the cubmaster. Who the Tiger Den Leader is shouldn't matter, since the Adult Partner must be with his or her Tiger at all times. The role of the Tiger Den Leader is largely to coordinate the efforts of the Adult Partners. What is the UC doing with popcorn money? This is a committee problem that as a Den leader I wouldn't get involved in. As far as the Tiger in the Wolf Den If I was not comfortable having him in the Den (and I wouldn't be) I would let the Cubmaster know that the required Adult Partner would have to be at every den meeting and work with the scout on tiger requirements whenever the den worked on Wolf requirements or they would need to make other leadership arrangements for the den. The tiger could participate in openings closing and appropriate games but other than that would need to do age appropriate activities with the Adult partner. As a den leader focus on the content of the den meetings and leave the rest of the pack administrative doings to others. Your only concern should be to have fun with the kids in your den and help them complete their rank before the next program year starts. Hope this helps clarify a few things, Bob White

littlebillie, I don't think anyone argues that the BSA discriminates. The fact i that it is neither immoral or illegal for them to do so. And the fact that someone may not agree withit does not make it immoral or illegal. Everyone discriminates every day. It merely means to make a choice between what you see as good or bad, or even good and better. Some forms of discrimination are illegal but not all. For a diffent perspective on this issue look at this HUD bulletin. www.hud.gov/news/release.cfm?content=pr02-150.cfm Another thing to remember is that the grant money cannot be used for salraies or camp improvements and the like. It is used for improvement projects that benefit low income housing areas. Like for instance the $2 million dolloars the Girls scouts got in a HUD grand for lanscaping products they used to beautify Low income housing neighborhoods. I doubt that the people who recieve the benefit of the money and volunteer work care about the membership requirements of the group doing the work. Bob White(This message has been edited by Bob White)

After they are through with Webelos do you intend to become the Cubmaster? If not you might consider the Webelos Scout Program July 20- July 26. BW

Let's keep in mind what it means to discriminate, and that not all discrimination is illegal, and not all discrimination that is illegal in one situation is illegal in another. We seem to equate discrimination with immoral or illegal on this board and that is not the truth. BW

I would never advocate limiting adult attendance, unless the event limits adult participation such as a Philmont trek, and I would be highly cautious of any unit that did. BW

Turkey Run in Crawfordsville In. just east of Danville has some fun fast water if the weather is right. You can camp at nearby Shades State park. BW

I'm sorry I explained that incorrectly. Yes cabin camping counts as overnight camping. However there there are other requirements that require camping overnight specifically in tents (Tenderfoot 2, Second Class 2b) for those requirements cabin camping would not be permissible. Hope that helps, BW(This message has been edited by Bob White)

(This message has been edited by Bob White)

Yes, any event done with the troop or patrol outside of the regular troop meeting is counted. The added point of counting overnight camping is because participation in campouts is another requirement and you need to know that the campouts are counted toward both requirements. Bob White

I guess I see it a little differently in that making sure you have a good scouting experience as a scout is my responsibility as a leader. Selecting and approving troop leaders is the responsibility of the Chartering Organization. Not every 18 year old who leaves the program due to age is ready to be an adult leader. If an 18 year old would like to serve the community as an Assistant Scoutmaster then they need to be assessed the same as anyone that wants to be a scout leader. Certainly the outdoor skills and leadership skills he learned as a scout are important. But the role of the Assistant scoutmaster is more thatn just being a old boy scout. Since you have attended leadership training you understand tha scouting from the adult leader perspective is much different than from the boy's perspective. I really have never considered the age of the assistant to be a benefit or a hinderence. I am only interested in their ability to carry out the adult responsibilities and methods of scouting. So in my mind if an 18 year old is qualified to be an assistant then I would hope the troop would recruit him, but I would not assume that he is ready for that role simply because of his leaving the youth program. Bob White

Pretty much all the high adventure bases do (Philmont, Florida Sea Base, Northern Tier Canoe Base etc.). BW

Glen, You are confusing insurance coverages. A registered scout always has accident insurance. Allowing a nineyear old to participate in activities that he is not prepared to handle still leaves you wide open as far as your liability if he should be injured. The fact that your Webelos Leader goofed up by not sticking to the membership requirements does not make the boy eligible for Boy Scouts. he was not eligible for Webelos. He will not be able to advance, and putting him in a troop before he is eligible may be a convenience for the grandmother but that is not what the troop is there for. Allowing such a young child in a troop is dangerous for the boy and detracts from the program for the rest of the scouts. Do not allow this woman to affect the scouts this way for her personal gain. I assure you that you will regret not stopping her. Bob White

Let's wait and see if the courts agree. Do I think the Catholic church would stop a Jewish synagogue from using a HUD grant? No, I don't think they would. Nor do I think they would sposor an ACLU suit against them or get on a Jewish bulletin board and denounce their activities. But hey!, that's Catholics for you. BW(This message has been edited by Bob White)

Merlyn, I questioned if you thought the level of anger with which you represent your beliefs might be a factor in your fitness to lead children. If you are displeased with my definition of "analogy" please blame Merriam-Webster. The BSA does not base membership on religion, but on ones ability to fulfill the mission of the program. You cannot be a lifeguard if you do not believe in swimming. You cannot be reverent and perform your Duty to God if you do not believe in a God. (thats another simile) So you see it's not so much that the BSA refuses atheists, it's really more that athiests have refused the ideals of scouting. A practicing Catholic cannot be a Jewish Rabbi. Does that give him cause to hate Jews or to be hated by them. Of course not. The Jewish faith requires that to be a member or a leader in the faith you must share their belief system. That makes perfect sense to me. If the Catholic sues the synagogue should he expect to win? Of course not. (That by the way that was an analogy to the relationship between scouting and atheists.) "The atheists are for the most part imprudent and misguided scholars who reason badly who, not being able to understand the Creation, the origin of evil, and other difficulties, have recourse to the hypothesis the eternity of things and of inevitability....." Voltaire Bob White(This message has been edited by Bob White)