Bob White

Now I'm really confused are we talking about you or a hypothetical situation? This isn't about me being right it's about the hypothetical scoutmaster not folowing the requirement in the handbook. He has confused requirement #1 and Requirement #2. He keeps avoiding to ask the scout about the Oath and Law. He asks him why he wasn't around and what he did, we have yet to hear that he was asked about how the Oath and Law helped him make decisions in his life. This isn't about a problem I or any other poster has. This is a scoutmaster, whether real or imagined, who just plain does not want to follow the requirements in the handbook. And the person with the problem is the unfortunate Boy Scout who has to deal with the SM in order to get his Eagle Rank he has worked to achieve. Thank goodness this is all hypothetical or no actual Boy Scouts were injured in this re-enactment. Bob White

Ed, Your scoutmaster continues to ask the WRONG question. It's not about why he didn't come! It's about how he used the ideals of the Oath and Law in the things he did while he was away. Tell the SM to get off his hangup about why the boy was gone and ask some questions that will tell him more about who the scout is. This guy really needs to go to training. Bob White

It's obvious you feel Scouting is a cookie cutter organization. Not at all. Quite the opposite infact. It is your SM who treats it that way. I and many other posters are saying you..sorry I meant HE..cannot make a blanket decision based soley on attendance. We are saying his decision has to be based on the life of each scout. He needs to talk to the scout. That is not a cookie cutter that is a scouting program that recognizes that the needs and characteristics of each boy is unique. I have questions because you said it was hypothetical so I was offering elements that could have affected the actions of both the scout and the scoutmaster. I think the reason your posts sound less than hypothetical is that you respond to our points with such as if you were intimate with the every little detail. It is very curious, hypothetically speaking. Bob White

Give your son a left-handed hanshake for me. I look forward to hearing about his advancement to first class. Bob

So our scout was active for since months after earning Life while taking the final steps to the Eagle rank and in those 6 months the Scoutmaster never determined if this scout incorporated the Oath and Law into his every day Life? What does our Hypothetical SM do during meetings and outings? How could he let a scout about to get Eagle walk away with out noticing, without being concerned about what might be happening to a boy this close to Eagle who suddenly up and left. Where was the SM (hypothetically of course) when this scout returned? Why would the scoutmaster automatically decide that the scout has no spirit without ever talking to him? Has our SM attended hypothetical training? Is he aware or the rules of advancement? Does he understand his role is to nurture advancement not to inject his personal hypothetical bias into the program in order to block his advancement. It appears in this scenario that the problem is not that the scout hasn't met all the requirements. The problem is that we don't know if he has met them and the SM would rather hold the scout to his standards than those of the BSA. It would appear that the scout may not be the only one with an attitude problem. But it's so hard to tell in a hypothetical situation. Bob White (This message has been edited by Bob White)

Wait a minute Ed, Not wanting to beat the hypothetical dead horse, but did you not say the scout had completed all his requirements except for his project and scout spirit? Are you now adding the requirement 1) Be active in your troop and patrol for 6 months since becoming a Life scout. Because that is not what you said at the beginning. If so, then we are not talking about requirement 2 at all and this whole string has been pointless. Bob White

The individual leader or in some units the Pack or Troop Trainer. BW

No offense taken, I could have told you some parts of what our resident professional shared but not as much. As a District and Unit volunteer like most I have very little contact with regional level stuff. There is really no need to. regional services as dsteele explained is more of a middle management support level between the councils and the National office. I think it's great that a couple professional representatives have joined the group. I am more than willing to sit out the conversations that they would be far better trained to respond to. I have great respect for good scout pros and what they do for the good of scouting. So I welcome the gentlemen and I am glad to see that some of their more vocal detractos have been silenced by their presence. Bob White

the E series is now the old book, the new one is series F. BW

Silver Beaver is the highest service recognition presented on a Council level as opposed to the district level.

Print a PDF file of the record card from this site. http://www.meritbadge.com/files/34169-55.pdf You could certainly nominate him for the district Award of Merit. It is the highest service award that a council presents within a distric. The numer of recipients allowed within a district is dependent on the number of units. Each district forms a selection committee usually headed by the District Advancement Committee to select the recipients. The award is normally presented once a year at a special occassion such as a District's Volunteer recognition Dinner. Bob White

Your pack has 7 Tigers, 8 Wolves and 5 Bears. Cub Scouts are commonly refered to by the grade they are in at school and the rank they were working to achieve during that grade. So in general, 1st graders are Tigers, 2nd Graders are Wolves, Third graders are Bears, and 4th and 5th graders are Webelos. This will be explained toyou when youattend New Leader esentials training and the Job Specific Training for your specific position in the pack. Contact your district training Chairperson for dates and times that training is available. Your District will allow your pack to send one of Tiger, one Wolf, and one Bear. Hope this helps, Bob White

her are some things done by the pack were I was CM. Have local race car drivers on hand with their cars for the cubs to meet Put the tracks on table tops so that everyone can see Set up pit areas that have all the cars on display and judge them for special recognitions. (everybody gets one) best use of the color_____, best concept, best paint job, best stock car, best dragster etc. Project the race brackets on the wal so thast every one can follow along and the boys can see their names move along. Our favorite-we had the troop selling pizza and pop in an adjoining room. So we took video cameras and aimed them at the tracks, then ran cables to TVs in the pizza room and the cubs could watch the races on the TV. Have fun, Bob White

We leave him as part of the leadership so that as the NSP develops in skills and performance the Guide can slowly reduce his prescence. for the first 6 months he will camp and eat with the patrol and be at all patrol meetings and compete with the patrol. Then he will camp with the leadership but spend the day and maybe have one meal with the NSP. Eventualy he will only be with them for skill training and patrol meetings and of course PLCs. By the 12th month he will be a friend to the patrol and available for questions but will have recieved a new NSP to Guide and begin the process over. Unlike other troop offices we have the troop guide in place for a full year so that the NSP has continuity. Both of our Troop Guides are beginning their second year. Bob(This message has been edited by Bob White)

Ed, If there was nothing wrong with the leadership of the troop it wouldn't have been left to the scout to realize he only needed his project to finish. If there was nothing wrong with the troop the scout would not have done all that work to get up to Eagle and then leave. If the Scoutmaster was doing his part to know and understand the needs and characteristics of each scout then he (hypothetically he) would have known of the scouts change in attitude and when the scout returned would have sat downand talked with him about how he has spent his time while away and how he has been using the ideals of scouting during his absence. To say the scenario is hypothetical is not license to make the elements unrealistic. Scouts don't do everything up to Eagle and leave for no reason. You are ready to judge this scout before you understand him. I think it's clear from all the responses to your question that we want the SM to sit down and talk with the scout. The BSA wants him judged on how he uses the ideals of the Oath and Law in his life not his attendance record. Bob White

The elements of a WB ticket are unique to each person depending on your personal goals and your role in scouting. It's great that you are going and that you are excited about it, but you will get more out of it if you wait for the course and learn about your ticket as you learn more about yourself. Have a great time Bob White(This message has been edited by Bob White)

Don't get me wrong I'm not questioning boy lead but boy elected. You are still assigning a leader to boys who have handbooks that say they will elect their own leader. I bet if you just put the 2nd class scout in with the new scouts odds are they would elect him. Even though the result is the same it is the process that makes it scouting. Scouting allows a patrol to select its own leader. Remember that a Troop is not divided into Patrols. Patrols gather to form a troop. What you are doing is similar to congress telling a state who their Govenor will be. Even though the boys assigned the leaders, they are still assigned and not elected. I'm just suggesting that you will get more benifit from the program if you use it as it was designed. Bob White

If you want the full benefit of the New Scout Patrol program you have to use the whole program. The Troop Guide should be at least 1st Class in rank, work well with younger kids be a good communicator and be competent in all skills leading to 1st Class. (see the Scoutmaster handbook) The Troop Guide IS NOT the patrol Leader but guides each newly elected leader for a month to teach them how the troop's boy lead system works. The guide is also a voting member of the PLC. SM handbook) This gives the normally outnumbered new scouts a weighted vote so that they can have a fairly balanced representation on the PLC. New scout patrol Leaders are elected each month so that each scout gets an opportunity to take an active role in a PLC during the first year. (SM Handbook).It is also a chance for each to be introduced and interact with the older scouts on the PLC. In addition each of the other patrol members rotate through the other patrol responsibilities of APL, QM, Scribe, historian, librarian etc. So that when they reach 1st Class about the end of their first year, they will have a feel for what each job enatails and how they fit in the big picture of patrol and troop operations. So now whether he stays in his existing Patrol and they become a regular patrol with no Guide and elections every 6 to 9 months or if he joins another regular patrol he will have 1st Class rank and possess all his basic camping skills and have a basic understanding of troop and patrol operations and responsibilities. This will not happen if you do not rotate positions every 30 days and use the first class emphasis program. I urge you to stick with the New Scout Patrol system as outlined in the Scoutmaster Handbook. Bob White

As Aquatics Directors you are welcome to be fully responsible for your staff, the safety of the area and the activities that take place there. However, when it comes to advancement, and in this case we are talking about 2nd Class and 1st Class swimming requirements and the Swimming Merit Badge. The Advancement policies of the Boy Scouts of America are specific. No individual or unit has the authority to add to or subtract from any advancement requirement. Your job as an aquatics director does not exempt you from that national regulation nor does it force any scout to do anything other than the requirements in his handbook in order to pass his advancement. What you want to accept as far as a swimmer in the pool or water front areas is between you and the camp director. But you cannot refuse a scout the opportunity to pass his advancement requirements if he wants to wear nose clip and goggles. You do not have to agree with the advancement regulations but you do have to follow them. Bob White (This message has been edited by Bob White)

I have some suggestions Kassie and a couple questions. First questions are... What training have you attended for Webelos leadership? How long are your meetings? This will help with the suggestions. Bob(This message has been edited by Bob White)

I hate to throw a wrench into a plan you are so happy with, but where are the BOY ELECTED leaders? The Scout Handbook along with every resource and scouting method says that boys ELECT their own leaders. We promise it to them in their handbook and you just took it away. This is what makes scouting unique from all other youth programs. How about following all of the New Scout Patrol program. You can't just pick pieces of the recipe to use and expect the dish to come out right. Boy Elected leadership is the basic element of junior leader training. The point isn't to offer the best of two worlds it is to offer a genuine scouting experience. Please reconsider your decision. Bob White (This message has been edited by Bob White)

I sparkie, I enjoyed the chat last night. It brought back memories of my days following the Lewis and Martini Trail. Bob

Gee Ed, are you sure we are talking about a hypothetical scout? Because the troop sounds like it might be real. Bob White

Scoutldr you oopsed! The first Position on the list is Patrol Leader and that is a Patrol position. CubsRgr8, 4) as the requirement in the handbook reads "one or more" 5)If it does not match a required position or special SM assigned project then it does not meet the requirements in the Boy Scout Handbook. 6) The Boy Scout Handbook Hope this helps, Bob White

It was your concern over what you 'feel' the program should require as opposed to what it does require, as well as your post in another string where you added a condition to the swimming requirement. These are red flags to a trainer when we hear it coming from such a new leader. Bob