Bob White

Whatever-a-thons are not allowed according to the fundraising policies of the BSA because they do not return a product or service. If you have scouts healthy enough to play all day to raise money, then you have scouts able to work to raise money. You may may not like selling product to raise funds and that's certainly your choice, but unless you want to just do work projects for money you are out of luck. The BSA does not allow you to beg for cash donations using their name or symbols. In addition to beg for only your unit is not beneficial to the growth of scouting in your community. When national and councils appeal to the community for cash it goeas to benefit all the scout units in the community. BW

"Scouting in Australia is known as Scouts Australia and answers to WOSM just as BSA does." Hi ozemu, I gotta say that is a new one on me. In what way does the BSA answer to WOSM. I know we are a member of the World Organization of the Scout Movement. But I don't know that they hold actual authority over any country's program do they? I always understood that it was an international association of member countries that help promote the scouting program on an international scale and assists countries in developing a scouting program, but I don't think they have any authority over the various national programs. Bob White

Personally I think we tread thin ice when we judge appropriateness by whether the joke is funny or not, or whether or not the scouts have 'seen or heard worse'. In my opinion where the skit became inappropriate was when an unsuspecting person was selected to be peed on. Sure they picked an adult, and in a group of adults that could have worked okay. But this was shown to kids and you have to know that at some point they will do it with other kids. Which kid to you suppose they will pick from a group to pee on? the most popular one? I doubt it. In this case we gave some one the tools to tease someone else and I don't see that as our mission. just my personal feelings. Bob

Actually there is a problem with a local leader or youth member going to a business or individual soliciting a cash donation. It is a violation of BSA fundraising policy and a trademark infringement. The BSA requires that a unit exchange a like quality service or merchandise in exchange for money. To use the name and emblems of the BSA to solicite funds is illegal. The organization name and emblems are property of the BSA not the units or members, and cannot be used for such a purpose. Only the council and national, which are the legal entities of the BSA have the authority to solicite on behalf of the entire program through Friends of Scouting, endowments and corporate donations. You can sell stuff (popcorn, Christmas wreaths, pancake breakfast, etc.) and do things for people (car washes and such). You CANNOT; beg, bowl-a-thon or anything-a-thon, raffle, sell commercial products other than Boy Scout Popcorn, while using the name or emblems of the BSA during the promotion, implementation of, or collection of funds, in an unauthorized activity. Let's be careful out there, you are representing all of scouting not just the unit you serve. Bob White

Shemgren covered it very accurately. I will ad one more thing. One hour stated athat interested others can serve on the Board of review. That's true for Eagle Scout, however all other boards are done by no less than three and no more than five registered troop committee members. Bob White

Actually that appeal if genuine is a violation of the BSA fundraising regulations which require that a service or product be exchanged for the money. Units are not to ask for cash donations using the scouting name, or trademark emblems. If not a genuine appeal it is fraud. The District and Council Executives have been made aware of the e-bay posting and they are investigating the situation. Bob White

Just to clarify, when I said I would do nothing I was speaking as if I were in dsteele's shoes as a professional. I agree the eisley that the individual needs to be reminded that his view is not consistent with the scouting program, but I think that should come from another volunteer. I think it's a good idea for district volunteers to insulate the local pro's from disputes in order for them to do their job most effectively. What I can't figure out is how a cubmaster could say such a thing, with a pack over a hundred does he do it all with only male leadership? That would be a first. Bob White (This message has been edited by Bob White)

Real boy leadership is a work in constant progress. Thats why the Scoutmasters focus is on training junior leaders. Take joy in the moments of real independence and leadership that appear. When you see a junior leader think through a problem and find a workable solution on his own, or when you see an older scout voluntarily coach a new scout through a skill correctly. Watch for the patrol meeting where the leader listens to everyones input and does the fair thing but maybe not the most popular thing. When you hear the SPL ask a patrol leader to take on a task rather than telling a group of scouts what to do. When a patrol goes camping overnight and you know they have the skill and behavior to do it right. These are some of the signs that you are doing things right and real boy leadership is being developed and practiced. Best of luck, Bob White

I probably would not say anything directly to the individual. However I would have a red rose for every female scouter at the next Roundtable meeting and remind ALL the participants that women have been a part of scouting for almost 90-years and we are a better program for their participation. Bob White

I'd be willing to bet this young man is upset enough between touble with his grades, Unhappy parents, and missing scout activities that the last thing he needs is to be removed from office. If the president gets sick we don't hold a new election. Let the APL stand in till the scout returns. That's what the APL position is for. Hold a new election when the regular term is up. Bob White

I agree with eisely That the form they refer to is on the back of the application and like both my learned colleagues have pointed out, open the applictaion so that you are not writing through the self-carbon. A word of caution to dsteele, in most states (but not all), even with the health history, a current physical and a parental waiver form, most physicians will not treat a minor without speaking directly to the parent or legal guardian first, unless the minor's life or limb are at risk. Bob White

AHH the joys of being a mini-van driver. Right now there is a flipchart, poster case, New Leader Essentials training kit, Youth protection training kit, 100' extension cord, powers strip, 8 different resource manuals, and my trainer's goody box. Been running around doing training course last couple of weeks. Oh yea there are some things for work too. Bob

Easy scoutldr, As I said you have to be a Boy Scout to get boy scout recognitions, In order to continue working toward Eagle the scout must have reached First Class as a BOY SCOUT prior to joining Venturing. A Venture Scout who has not had a Boy Scouting cannot recieve boy scout recognitions include OA. The OA has always been a service organization of the Boy Scout program. When Exploring existed as a part of traditional scouting they could not have OA elections either, so this is not a new regulation that they are following. I never said you could not have an opinion, I said I was surprised by your attitude as a trainer. I had expected more of a "why do they" rather than "this is wrong, here is what they should do". As a new trainer you might find that a more positive approach might serve you better and be a better influence on those you train. Just a thought, Bob White

Scoutldr, There are a couple things you are not considering and since you are a trainer I'm surprised that you you do not already know this. First a Boy Scout cannot get a Cub Scout recognition unless he earned it as a Cub Scout. In that same vein a Venture Scout cannot get a Boy Scout Recognition unless he earned it as a Boy Scout. Doesn't that make sense? There is no going back. Secondly this is not a Boy Scout rule. This is an OA rule. The Order of the Arrow is a separate division of scouting and they make their own membership rules. If you are going to frump about this then you need to direct it at the right governing body, the OA not the Boy Scouts. I trust that as you train you don't say "here is program but I think it would be better if they did this instead". As a trainer you represent the entire program and people will judge us on that representation. Rather than get so irritated by why we don't do things certain ways as a program, perhaps you could focus more on why we do it that way. You would be less frustrated and others would get a more positive image of all of us. Back to the topic of the thread. All Venturing needs is time and quality leadership. Boy Scouts has had over 9 decades to develop, Cubs has hat over 70 years and Venturing only about 4. Be patient and do your role the best you can. It's a good program and will only get better with time. Bob White (This message has been edited by Bob White)

The OA is a Boy Scout program, to be a member you must be registered in a troop. To be called out you must be a youth member of a troop or an adult that is active in a troop, or I believe selected by the Council. A boy or adult in venturing that is in the OA must also be registered in Boy Scouts or selected due to a council position. Here is your resource. The homepage of the national office of the OA http://www.oa-bsa.org/ Go tho the FAQs and you will find an article clarifying the membership opportunities. Bob White(This message has been edited by Bob White)

LauraT If you are an approved and registered counselor then it is your decision. Just make sure that you are not more lenient or more restrictive for your own children as you are with others you counsel. Bob

LauraT7 The only person who can decide this is the scout's Merit Badge Counselor. Not the Scoutmaster, not the District Advancement Chair, not the parent. All merit badges work must be the approval of the counselor. If the the counselor determines that the scout met the requirement while camping with the family or outside a scout event then it is OK. My son is in a school sponsored high adventure club. Their activities are run as well or better then many troops. If I was the camping counselor for any of the scouts in that club I would certainly accept the nights they camp. Bob White

A lot of units have a higher than average number of Eagles. Many have a lower than average, that's how we come up with an average. What's more important is how they are getting to Eagle not how many you have. Eagle factory is a term used to describe troops who put the achievement of rank over the personal character growth of the individual scout. With apologies to Jeff Foxworthy You might be an Eagle factory if.. If your troop meeting plan is based on merit badge classes then you might be an Eagle factory. If the majority of merit badge sashes in the troop look the same you might be an Eagle factory. If scouts are told which merit badge they are learning next you might be an Eagle factory. If everyone moves to the next rank at the same time you might be an Eagle factory. If you define the success of your program by the number of Eagle Scouts you might be an Eagle factory. If you think the advancement method is the most important scout method you might be an Eagle factory. If you give blue cards to scouts before they ask for one you might be an Eagle factory. If you tell scouts how many, or which, merit badges they must earn at summercamp you might be an Eagle factory. So don't worry about what others say, worry about what you are doing. If the actions above seem familiar to you in the unit you serve, then you are not following the the scouting program or giving the youth the best possible scouting experience even if they receive Eagle, and that is what is important. Bob White

ProudParent in defense of everyone who took the time to respond to your post we did stick to the topic, bear in mind that you did not ask a specific question (take a look at your original post) The most you gave us to work with was Our Scoutmaster wants to block a young Life Scout (13 years old) from beginning his Eagle project on the basis that the scout is "not mature enough". The concensus of the group and the BSA is that the scoutmastrer has overstepped his authority in this matter. If the scout has satisfied the requirement then he earned the rank, and it is not the role of the Scoutmaster to hinder any advancement work by the scout, and that age does not determine maturity. Bob White

I am 100% with you on that KS. Bob

Eamonn, I absolutely agree that the role of the District and Council is to support the Units efforts in giving the scouts a quality scouting experience. I also believe that scouts benefit by realizing the brotherhood that exists with other scouts in their community, across the country and around the world. Meeting other scouts in your area helps you to understand the scpe of the program and make new friends as well. In my experience, Scouts who really feel a part of something as big as the brotherhood of scouting stay in the program longer, mature faster and have more fun. that is why I include it on my list. Hope this helps, Bob

Many councils do not allow units to stockpile awards (ours used to) and will only sell you advancement awards if you have the advancement record to turn in at the same time. so in those cases, the sout would 1) get a hardy handshake and warm pat on the back at the troop meeting when he earned the award, 2) get the badge at the next meeting, 3)get the pocket certificate at the Court of Honor. The best way to keep troop meetings from becoming MB classes is don't set an agenda that makes them one. If you pick a theme for the month on the first week have a guest presenter, on the second week and third week practice skills needed for the theme and on the fourth introduce the merit badges related to the theme and do a couple requirements. Then tell the scoputs that if anyone wishes to continue to learn more about these Merit Badges then see the Scoutmaster after the meeting to get a blue card and the names of registered MB counselors. So during the month you can build interest toward the badges, give them a taste and let them pursue the ones that they are interested in on their own. Bob White

Sam Walton the founder of WalMart earned his eagle scout at 13 years old. At the time he was the youngest eagle scout in the nation. And just look at how badly he turned out. I have yet to meet two 13 year olds who shared much in common other than their age. To judge their ability to fulfill the expectations of Eagle simply by looking at their age is unfair. You need to look in the individual character and accomplishments of each scout. ProudParent, what your SM is suggesting is in violation of the BSA advancement policies. Bob White(This message has been edited by Bob White)

Applications forms will arrive at your local coucil office. Ask them to send you a copy. It helps to have done good quality work on the local level because your professionals will be asked for their recommendation. Bob White

Back in the 60s, and yes I am old enough to remember, there were 4 rank badges that combined to make one large diamond. They were Wolf, Bear, Lion, Webelos. Bobcat was a round pin about the size of a dime. If a Cub joined today in fourth grade he'd wear the Bobcat patch once he earned it, and it would remain on his shirt until he earned his Webelos badge. It's not a big deal really because he will soon be in Boy Scouts were he will only wear one rank at at time as well. Besides unless he joins in first grade he will never have the entire diamond, and whatever he has will be removed upon reaching the Webelos badge. BW