Bob White

I dont know any modern, healthy, 12 year old who would be more comfortable, or develop better, as a Cub Scout than a Boy Scout. Take the New Leader Essentials training and you will have a clearer understanding of how the various programs of the BSA are designed to meet the specific need of youth at specific stages of development. Although it is true that each boy is unique, there are developmental characteristics that are generally by youth in similar age brackets. The methods of the various BSA programs are aimed at those know characteristics. Bob White

Yes on a few occassions including an Eagle Board. I excused the scout for a few minutes, explained the rules and process to the board members, we came to an agreement on how the Board would proceed and then invited the scout back in and continued. Bob White(This message has been edited by Bob White)

Two cub you asked in another thread for my view on the problems facing commissioning. We covered this in the not to distant past. Here is the link to that discussion. http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=23986 Bob White

Nothing in training has changed other than methods. It is still voluntary. We still say that every scout deserves a trained leader. We have tried to be more flexible to meet a variety of time availabilities. We have taken a rifle like aim with job specifc training rather the shotgun sim of the previous Basic Training. But othe than that it is no less voluntary than it has been in the past. Conscientious leaders take training, others do not. Bob White

Packsaddle, National will confirm membership dates, advancement dates, Merit Badge mix and other details to make sure that everything is correct and the Rank has been reached. There have been times when incorrect merit badge counts, lapses in membership, age misrepresentation and other factors have detained or with held the rank. Bob White(This message has been edited by Bob White)

Twocub, You cannot throw out our agreement with congress on how the scouting program will operate just to solve one problem. The problem in commissioning is one of methodology and philosophy. There is no need to alter rules and policy to fix it. It is also not gomin to be solved on a local level until National makes a determination on what the plan will be. Someone at national needs to gather a volunteer task force to look at where commissioning fits today, and how to make it work. The national needs to develop the support resources to implement the changes nationwide. At the time of my last conversation with some national officers last summer this had not yet taken place. Commissioning has always been a branch of the relationships division, that division went through a drastic downsizing. Because of that reoganization there was little to nothing being done with the commissioning problem. Altering the basic tenets of the program is not the solution. A strong unit trainer program will greatly reduce the need for a unit commissioner in most units. Having a higher percentage of trained leaders will do even more good. I would agree that the greatest need and benefit of Commissioners is in the area of New Unit Organization and Unit Lifesaving. But we must be careful how that is done. The Boy Scouts has a unique structure where the units are owned by the Chartered Organization and we must continue to respect and abide that format. A question Twocubdad. If you could state the mission of commissioning in one sentence, what would it be? Bob White (This message has been edited by Bob White)

The preceeding announcement was a personal commentary and does not represent the volunteers or management of this station or its subsidiaries. Thank you for watching. Please stay tuned for our regularly scheduled programing.(This message has been edited by Bob White)

That sounds like a verymoving and memorable experience OGE. One note of caution. He is not an Eagle yet. The Eagle rank is the only one where that the scout does not ascend to the rank at the successful completion of the Board of Review. He is not an Eagle until after National has reviewed and accepted the Eagle package, which is weeks later. Once National deems the scout has completed the rank they will back date the award to the date of the BOR. (see The Advancement Committee Policies and Procedures manual) You would be more accurate to say "Congratulations on the successful completion of your Eagle Board of Review. Once the National Office has reviewed and accepted your Eagle Packet you will be notified of your attainment of the Eagle Rank." Just a suggestion, Bob

Rooster the original poster asked what our favorites were. Mine happen to be in the areas I expressed, and I explained why. We see the board of review differently. I see it as a review of what scouting has shared with the scout and what the scout has shared with scouting. Some see it as a challenge or gauntlet for the scout to run. Others use it to see if the scout can think on his feet. I don't see how you can test him on materials that were not a part of his training or experience and be able to "judge" his answers as far as it concerns his Eagle Rank. But that is just how I see it. Was there something in what I wrote that you felt was not in keeping with the advancemnt guidelines or regulations of the program? I don't see having questions that are fair and relevent to the purpose of the BOR as being coddling. Yarrow asked for input, that's mine. Bob White

I would hope that an Eagle Scout Board of Review would be a positive supportive experience for a scout. One that he would remember without squirming. I agree that the best line of questioning is based around his understanding of the Law and Oath, what he has learned about leadership and teamwork, what he feels he has gained through scouting and what the troop and patrol has gained from him. As far as why he thinks he deserves the award.. because he completed the tasks he was told he had to do to recieve it. It is not a matter of "what did he do to deserve it", he "earned" it. As far as whether the scout thinks the troop followed the program...remember that all he knows of the program is in his handbook. Nowhere does the handbook discuss the mission, aims, or methods of scouting. This is a question better aimed at the scoutmaster on occassion than to a scout. Bob White

No, "they" didn't say they would not discriminate. The District Chairman without the proper authority and in violation of national policy said it. The Council Scout Executive clarified that the non-discrimination policy existed only for members in the Learning for Life Program, a wholly owned subsidiary of the BSA and not affiliated with the traditional scouting programs. He removed the individual from staff for publicly avowing his homosexuality along with his membership in the BSA, a violation of the BSA membership policies. Lattera chose to speak up for the purpose of testing the policy. It was an unfortunate choice. Bob White

"What if the PLC has decided that their program has turned into a yearly 1c1y program and they are bored with the program being tied into the advancement of the new scouts?" That's the entire point jbroganjr, It is only the program for the New Scout Patrol, The experienced patrols (those over first class) and the Venture patrols do a different program. The point here is to get basic skills and troop operation information established in new scouts during their first year. It's when boys are in mixed patrols that they keep getting the same program over and over again because you are constantly trying to meet the needs of a mixed audience rather than have a seperate programs that are focused on the needs and characteristics of similar groups at similar ages. By the way its not my rigid schedule it is a promise made in the Scout Handbook, and taught in SM training. First Class in the first 12 to 14 months. Bob White(This message has been edited by Bob White)

Matua, It does not sound as if the young lady will be presenting her actions as a positive choice for others to follow. I also appreciate you and the other key members taking the leadership selection process seriously. I think you have folowed the expectations and policies of the BSA. I wish the young lady well she has some difficult times ahead of her. Bob White

Ryan, You seem like a pretty sharp guy, what do you think contributes to their noise and what would you like to see happen? Bob White

First Oxcops congrats on being so well thought of by the members of the crew. The nexyt thing you need to know is that have no authority in recruiting you. That responsibility belongs to the chartering organization and Crew committee of adults. The crew members should go through them with thier recommendations. If you want to consider this position, which by the way is Crew Advisor, crew leaders are youth members, I recommend you contact your local scouting service center ands ask to borrow a Venturing Leader Manual. read the section starting on page 18 that explains the role and responsibilities of the Advisor. That should help you to determine if you want the job. Your primary role is to traine the Crew President and the other Crew Leaders in their administrative duties. (and to be present at every meeting and activity) As far as knowledge and experience, the knowledge comes from training and there is plenty available and experience comes from time spend on the job. You will also want to make sure that the Venturing (not Venture) Crew has two other Associate Advisors lined up as well, and that at least one of you are female. Have Fun, Bob White

"if one wanted to. Mentoring Commissioners could be dual registered from the start" Sorry twocub the membership rules for Unit Commissioners say they must not be registered as unit leaders unless they were a committee member prior to the time they became commissioners. In which case they may remain a committee member. However that is the only option. A good commissioner knows better thn to exert any actual control within a unit. their job is to direct volunteers to the appropriate resource to learn the answers. "Give a man a fish you feed him for a day, teach him to fish you feed him for a life time." We can recommend which gear to use, suggest an effective bait, and point him to where we know the fish to be. We are not there to fish for them, or even fish with them. You can't even use my boat, but I will gladly help you learn to build your own. Quite honestly if a unit had 100% trained adults, We already have some that are. A unit would not need a Unit Commissioner. All to often units in good shape don't need a commissioner and units in trouble refuse to let one in the door. More often than not Commissioners are brought in to referee between adults who never learned how to play nice together. Do that a few times and you will understand why so few volunteers become a commissioner or stay one for very long. Bob white

"It is my job as Scoutmaster to make sure that the PLC has delegated every item, and that they are completed by the due date." Isn't that the Senior Patrol Leaders Job? BW

acco 40 I think it is fine to want the scout to have First Class First Year as a goal, but unless the troop leaders provide a specific program that will make this possible it will never be more than a wish. Keep in mind that you are expecting this year long goal to come from a 10 1/2 year boy who has jus...changed units, changed, leaders, changed social group, started a new program, has fewer adults to guide him, is trying to understand youth leadership, learn new skills, and be away for home for possibly the first time. Thats why the New Scout Patrol program is so effective. it provides a buffer between the two program for the first year. duriing that year the goal is to teach and learn the basic skills ad principles of scouting so that a strong foundation is in place for the next 7. Bob White

I'm on our council's Jambo committee also. We started meeting several months ago. Currently we are interviewing applicants for the leadership positions in our 3 troops, and we have half of the youth participant slots reserved with their first payment. Everyone is very excited. It's hard to believe it is still two years away. BW

TJ Your last post rebutting mine is a perfect example of what I was saying. You have a very loud opinion of me with no actual knowledge to back it up. As you are aware I go to great lengths to give the the related BSA reference with the things I share, except for the rare times I share a personal opinion. I have never presented my self as the spokesperson of scouting but more as a reference library. You have no idea what training or service recognitions I have, or of my background because I have never mentioned them. What I have done has little relationship to understanding the program. I know a number of excellent scouting leaders who with very little experience provide an excellent program simply by following the handbook. Please, don't tell me that you know all about the workings of scouting because you sat in on one meeting. I sat in on a session of Congress, that hardly makes me a political analyst. Your harsh words prove that you have great emotion on the topic, your content shows little knowledge or understanding. My personal opinion is that you are so personally opposed to the answer that you keep trying to corrupt the question. Bob White

The requirement is not for a quiver but for an arrow holder. It is a device that stands next to the archer and holds the arrow nock end up for the archer to draw from. Bob White

With all due respect TJ you really have no idea how the BSA works on a national level before or since the Dale incident. You have some very strong personal opinions which you are welcome to have, but your content shows little knowledge of the non-profit corporation side of scouting beyond the district level. Bob White

"they could step in and take an active leadership positions for short periods of time." That will never be supported. Charter Organizations are specifically responsible for selection and approval of all volunteer leaders in their units. For a commissioner to step in would violate our Congressional Charter. It just ain't gonna happen. Bob White Bob White

The question has been asked in another post regarding the connection between the First Class Emphasis program (often referred to as First Class First Year) and Troops that base their programs on the goal of achieving the Eagle Scout Rank (often called Eagle factories). Now I have to say first, that to me this is the same as asking "what is the connection between floridated water and the sinking of the Titanic?" One was a good addition to the water one was poor management of a vessel in water. Other than that they have nothing to do with each other. First Class emphasis is a good addition to the advancement program. Eagle factories are the results of poor management of the advancement program. By the way the Titanic sunk long before Flouridation existed. Eagle factories existed long before First Class Emphasis was introduced so one could not have influenced the other. First Class Emphasis has effectively retained new scouts and better prepared them as leaders by teaching them the basics of outdoor skills, along with troop and patrol management, within the first 14 months of membership. It works extremely well in units that use it. It doesn't work at all in units that don't use it. It is promised in the Boy Scout Handbook, explained in the Scoutmaster Handbook and in SM/ASM Leader Specific Training. It is supported with The First Class Tracking Worksheet, and The First Class/ First Year Recognition Certificate. It is administrated by the ASM for New Scout Patrols and the Troop Guide. (The SM's role is to make sure there is an ASM for New Scout Patrols and a Troop Guide for each NSP.) Eagle factories are a misuse of the advancement program and a mismanagment of the troop program. it is born from the ego of the SM. The only advancement goal in the scouting program is Firt Class. All other ranks come from an individual path chosen by each scout, created by their personal interests and skills and their own personal goal setting. The advancement role of the troop program beyond First Class is to introduce a scout to the Merit Badge opportunities and try to spark an interest. Also to provide a setting where leadership skills can be learned and practiced. To force scouts to work on MB that are not of their individual choosing is detrimental to their development and interest in scouting, and has no relationship to the First Class Emphasis program. I would be interested in the reasons units use to not follow the first Class emphasis program. Bob white

I don't see that they have different requirements. The BSA has the same expectations for for all members. We are required to publicly act and support the values of the Oath and Law. The reason that a ruling exists on homosexuals is that national was asked by a council to make a specific determination. Once they did it became policy. To my knowledge no council has brought a similar situation as Matua's to national for a decision. The reason that the BSA does not list every specific circumstance that would cause your membership to be denied or revoked is,...who could possible anticipate every possible circumstance? Instead of saying here is what you can't do, the BSA says "here is what you are required to do", any behavior that is in contrast with that is open for membership denial.