Bob White

So fotoscout, If you have exhausted all the activities available to you through the cub scout handbook for a particular rank, and all the activities recommended by the program helps, and all the district and Council activities offered for your scouts, and you want to do your own cub activity; what would that activity be, for what age group, and what rule in G2SS do you feel keeps you from doing that activity, and why do you think that specific rule exists? Perhaps if we had a specifc example of these things it would help us to understand what you think is missing. Bob White

So Ryon, How many patrols? How many Scouts? How many Tents? Bob

It varied in style and degree of contact from ceremony to ceremony, but basically a candidate was identified by a runner or runners and then one of the ceremony characters, usually the medicine man or chief, struck "tapped out" the individual three-times on the shoulder. In some ceremonies the blows grew way out of control. In a case I witnessed the candidate was yanked out of line and thrown from one runner to another three time. The final runner held the scout from behind by his arms while he was struck three times by the chief. One runner missed the scout as he was hurled at him at the boy was spun toward the fire. Another candidate in line tackled him in the nick of time. There were also cases of boys having their shoulders separated by the force of the impact. Because too many adults think this kind of behaviour is acceptable and "adventurous" becasue "Thats the way I was tapped by gosh" it was necessary to implement new safety rules. So many years ago (about 13 I believe) it was changed to a "Call out" where there is to be no violent contact with the candidate. Unfortunately despite the rule change many OA Chapters continued the Tap-out procedure ignoring the rules of the OA and the danger to the scouts. This is more of a problem of adult advisors failing in their leadership responsibilities than anything else. Bob White

btps, No its not! There is no evidence of that. The program continues to move forward, membership is strong. What makes you think that upholding the values of the program are tearing it apart, or that a few people unable to live by the oath and law are tearing it apart? There were people in the 70s who thought that backlash from the Viet Nam war would end scouting, others thought drugs would end scouting, still others thought letting woman play a larger role would end scouting. None of that was true. The values of scouting have continued to be the foundation of the movement. Scouting is strong, it is especially strong enough to stand through this controversy.

evmori, if your local OA was doing "Tap outs" 5 years ago then they were doing it wrong for 10 years. Tap outs were abolished over ten years ago and became "call outs" due to the number of stupid and unnecessary injuries that where happening. I saw a boy get his shoulder separated from being 'tapped' and another narrowly missed being thrown into a bonfire. Ahh, the good old days! Runners are still a part on the ceremony, but physical violence has no place in the program. Does it? Bob White

Willysjeep, I think you have a misconception of liability. It is the liability concerns of the agencies, for the scouts would be assisting, that is the problem. Those agencies, more specifically their lawyers and isurance carriers do not want to see there agencies involved in legal suits brought upon them by the family of a scout who was injured while assisting them. Liability has nothing to do with parents being woried about thier sons getting hurt. Liability is who is responsible for the scout being injured. Bob White

I agree that the scouting members are less involved in community emergencies than when I was a scout in the 60' and 70's. But the world has chqanged. Many communities did not have organized emrgency services at the level they have today. There were no Paramedics, EMTs, local ambulance sevices, etc. Technology was very different also, to be a more effective, efficient emrgency responder takes more training and equipment than in the past. All of which I think is a good and has let to better emergency resonse. But it has also narrowed the opportunities for scouts to help. Another thing that has changed our opportunity to become involved is litigation. Due to the many abuses of our legal system, towns are much more careful about who does what and the exposure to liability that might exist. This too has caused the opportunities to serve to diminish. That does not mean that scouts cannot be a benefit in an emergency? If our scouts learn how to react in a given emergency to protect their lives, their families and help in their neighborhood, then they can greatly reduce the work load to community emergency services and allow them to respond to the greater prioity situations. We can make a huge contribution by "being prepared", knowing how to remain calm, evalute needs, know our personal and community resources, and be able to "help other people at all times" in our homes and our neighborhoods. Bob White

Eamonn, A nation-wide task force has been working on revamping all of the junior leader training processes. A new JLT is scheduled to be tested this summer in the Great Lakes area. I don't know that a release date has been set. Bob White

nldscout, You obviously have more intimate details regarding the personal lives of your local United Way officers than we have where I live. I can only hope you came upon this knowledge in a way that would not violate the membership rules of scouting. No matter, it does the scouting movement an injustice when it is represented by an adult leader that uses that kind of language. I'm sure even your scouts are encouraged to make better use of their education when choosing their words in public. I hope you will confront those you disagree with on this board, and in topics on this board, with greater control. Thanks, Bob White(This message has been edited by Bob White)

I find it an interesting study of character when United Way funding for programs supporting activities or services for athiests or homosexuals are not challenged by the Boy Scouts of America or their local councils. But funding for the the Local councils of the BSA is always challenged by athiests and homosexual groups. Who is really the more tolerant organization? Bob White

I want to go on record saying that I agree 100%. A reasonable size sheath knife in the hands of a trained individual is just as safe as a pocket knife. Bob White

I'll add one more. Kudos to the parents of scouts, who want their children to have the values of this program and make an awful lot of personal sacrifices so that their children have a strong foundation of personal values.

The strong ideals The unique methods we use to teach them The youth we share them with The adults that volunteer to share them The pros we hire to help the program grow

Oh Yea Broadway soundtracks! thanks DS. When the family goes on trips we listen to my soundtrack collection between the son's Toby Keith, and Creed CDs. A Funny Thing Happened On the Way to The Forum, Phantom of the Opera, Joseph and his Amazing Technocolor Dreamcoat, MusicMan, Oklahoma, Oliver......

http://www.pinetreeweb.com/B-P.htm So much for brits only wearing the Wood Badge beads. Bob White

So then DS are we in violent agreement here? In the case of a pack trip with siblings along, only the registered cubs, or their age eligible potential member guests are covered by the councils accident insurance, and only the registered adults, CO and Council are covered by the BSA liability insurance. Right? Bob White

Tom Lehrer, Sons of the San Joaquin, Billy Joel, Allen Sherman, Pete Seger, Roger Miller, Carly Simon, Boston Pops, Chicago Symphony, Spike Jones, Oak Ridge Boys, and many others. BW

So FOG whats your point? That your flare for fashion is more important than a boy's positive memories about a moment in scouting? Symbolism is not an excuse for looking bad in a uniform. Isn't looking "bad" rather sujective? I only recall ever seeing one scout swimming in a scout uniform. It was in a painting by Norman Rockwell, I thought it he looked pretty proud. Wouldn't you rather see a scout in a uniform that doesn't fit yet, rather than a adult leader who doesn't wear the uniform? Bob White

It was a gift from his troop. I believe the words used when they presented them to the boys was something like "as the boys grow in scouting so will they grow into these sahes". It has been fun to see him fill his sash both inside and outside. He wouldn't have traded that moment for a smaller sash. Bob White

Dsteele I was lead to believe that there is a difference between liability coverage and our accident insurance. The liability insurance protcts us from loss when someone else is injured on the trip. Accident insurance protects the victim from loss. Is this not the case? If so, I believe that only members and guests eligible for membership are protected by accident insurance. Liability as I understand it protects the leaders, CO, and the Council should a member or guest be injured. ?????? Bob White

It's unfortunate that kids come in so many sizes and sashes only come in 2. My son was like that. His sash almost hit his knees when he got it at 12, now at 15 it fits just fine. It was a little big at first but he only had a few occasions a year to wear it to. Besides he was so proud of the merit badges at the top, he didn't seem to worry at all about the bottom. BW(This message has been edited by Bob White)

OOPS, darn shift key. Fotoscout, Why do you suppose the G2SS reistricts some activities depending on program level? And Which G2SS policies would need to be changed in order for your District or Council to do a Cub Canoe Day? If they can do the activity at a day camp couldn't they do it as a stand alone activity?(This message has been edited by Bob White)

I guess I see it a little differently. to me buying a slightly larger uniform for a growing child is "being prepared". Bob White

I was the Comminications MB counselor for a week of summer camp last year. We were able to do all the requirements but one in the course of a week and did many outside of the classroom setting. We had 28 scouts take the course that week. BW

Fotoscout While I agree that the examples I gave were programitic changes, so are the suggestions to alter membership ages and program elements. Anything that alters the program would be, wouldn't it? Bob White