Bob White

No Ron only some of the requirements were moved. If you do not have a handbook available you can see the requirements for all the ranks at www.meritbadge.com Bob White

What part do you not understand Fat Old Guy? A troop may invite potential members to meeting and activities, and the accident umbrella will cover medical expenses if injured. In some councils this is primary insurance in most however it is secondary coverage. Either way the the non-scout who is eligible for membership but has not joined yet is protected. There is no paperwork needed beyond the normal parental permission slip if it is an outing. Since insurance is purchased by the individual councils you should verify the local policy coverage with your local service center. Please let me know on what specific part of this you are still foggy. I'm curious if any other reader felt I sidestepped anything? Why are you making such personal issues out of any post I make? If you have something on your mind feel free to Private Message me as I have suggested to you off board. Otherwise I think many folks would appreciate seeiing the sparing moved to it's own thread or ended completely, rather than waste so much time on every thread. Bob White

It' cafeteria style and there are usually two main dish choices, lots of sides, almost always salads and fresh fruit, coffee, milk, lemonade. Like I said you won't go hungry. Your application will have a special form for dietary needs if thats a real concern. Bob White

My son gave me that book as a Father's Day Gift. I've enjoyed it completely. Bob White

Prospective members who meet BSA eligibility requirements. Verify with your local council service center. Bob White

No need to Ron, All of the BSA accident insurance policies cover eligible guests. Your local scout office can verify. There is no need for any documentation beyond a parental permission slip. Bob White

fboisseau, While PTC will not get a three star rating from AAA, the food is...well...certainly not poisonous. On a sclae of 1 to 10 I give it a 5 to 8 rating. My 15yr old sitting here says it deserves a better rating. he gives it a 6to 9 scale. Some meals are better than others and it helps to like chicken. My wife has severe food allergies (no citrus, no dairy)and she does just fine. You will really enjoy Western Night (Tuedsday I think) and on Wednesday (Family Day)you can take the family into town for a meal if you like. So you won't go away hungry but you won't be looking to book their catering services for your next family reunion. On the plus side the kitchen staff is always helpful, cheerful and responsive. You will have a great time. Bob White

Many packs I know of limit den sizes to eight scouts. From my experience as a den leader and a cubmaster I think that makes good sense. In fact we limited the tiger dens to 6 scout maximum since every scout has an adult partner with them. Trying to to an effective den program becmes more difficult as you add more people. I would certainly recommend that your current dens need to be divided up into more manageable sizes. Bob White

Thank you for your interest in my medical training Mr. Guy, but as I stated in my post, the response I gave was sharing info given to me by a physician I consulted on the thread. As far as as the parental permission it is all well and good but even so no physician i the country will treat a minor for a non-fatal injury without first speaking with the parent or legal guardian, or a court order. This again came from a physician not my personal opinion. Have a nice Day:) Bob White

The reference to the ten Commandments was a historical one to show that intent was even considered in God's Laws to Moses. "By the way, assault is not a crime of intent, it is a crime of deed. The deed is making a threat and causing the other person to fear for his safety." Like when "During summer camp last week, one of our new scouts jumped out from behind a tree at night flashing a knife at another new scout, who was understandably terrified." Bob White

A difficult situation Jerry, I think how you handled things in the first paragraph was very appropriate. And I agree that further action needs to be taken. My only advice is that you not be involved beyond this point. Punishment is the responsibility of the parents and the troop committee. Let them resolve this issue, do not put yourself in the middle of the situation. Your primary role is training junior leaders, get back to that. You may already be doing this but in case you are not, I recommend that you stress the "Tools Not Toys" concept when teaching skills such as ropework, woods tools, and water activities. Let the scouts know from the outset that misused objects can quickly become weapons whether we intended them to be or not. And that misuse of these tools will result in loss of priviledges, or possibly removal from the program. They need to understand that scouting is serious about this. As far as "we can't punish kids for what didn't happen." Of course we can. Intent has been a crime for centuries, all the way back to the Ten Commandments. Coveting is a crime of intention, so is assault. You do not need to wait for the injury to take place to know that a behavior is inherently dangerous or illegal. Turn this over to the parents and the troop committee and get back to working with the scouts. Good Luck, Bob White

Hi Eamonn, DS gives very good advice. The two best sources of new scouts are of course Webelos and friends. You know when Webelos cross, but I don't know that there is a season on friends. What I have found works well is, do not have the scouts invite friends to a troop meeting or for that fact a "scout" anything. Invite them to go camping with some friends, or canoeing with some friends, or rock climbing with some friends. Let them discover for themselves that the friends are scouts. (We jokingly call this our AmWay recruitment.) the idea is to stress the fun and the doing, and avoid the initial knee jerk reaction to the words "Boy Scouts". We have found this to be very effective. "BSA should have a policy that covers "prospective members" but I'm sure that they don't." Spoken with great conviction but sadly few facts. Actually the BSA does, and your council 's insurance coverage always has. So don't worry about the accident coverage on youth guests it's already taken care of. Bob White

Give the scouts time to grow and develop. Unless the asthma is severe it is unlikely that national will waive the requirement. My son has asthma and did not pass the swim test his first summer either. It wasn't that he couldn't swim it was that he was used to a heated indoor pool. He tried too make the test a race and he wore himself out. Make sure your scouts understand that speed has nothing to do with the test. Just keep moving forward and they will probably do just fine. Patience, Bob White

First Rooster my comments regarding commenting on others beliefs were not directed at you. Secondly,"To intelligent people who listen to logic and reason" and by whose standards are we judging this? Third, if a black teenage girl from Alabama wants to discuss Washington politics with a 44-year-old white male from Maryland, I would hope he would have the good sense to only explain himself and not tell her what it is like to be a black girl in Alabama. If you want to discuss religion fine. But I wouldn't recommend doing it by telling someone what they believe. Tell them what you believe, and ask if they believe the same or differently. If they feel that it is any of your business they will answer. Bob White

Sory Fat Old Guy I was trying to be friendly. Now you acan be helpful and explain this marketing ploy you keep avoiding. Twocubdad, Fat Old Guy is correct unlike his $12 imported hat, your BSA hat is probably covered by the lifetime warranty. Bob White (my friends call me Bob, but Fat Old Guy you can call me Bob White)

"It either makes sense or it doesnt?" To whom? Religions and religious beliefs are intricate and deeply personal. A Person has every right to speak on behalf on what they see is the Truth in a faith they know and practice. But for anyone to comment on beliefs, doctrine, or failings of a religion they do not practice is presumptuous at best, and does an injustice to that faith. Dont tell me what its like to live in my house if dont live there now. Bob White (This message has been edited by Bob White)

Hey, that's my line!

You are right twocubdad it is not an unreasonable price. Just for the record the number of colors are irrelevant in the cost of embroidery. It's the number of stitches that determine the cost. Bob White

Now call him FOG and tell him it must be made in the USA by Union laborers (with the union label). And then be sure to explain the marketing scheme you have outlined. How would the BSA benefit from offering an overpriced, unpopular low quality, non-essential product? You keep avoiding that question. Bob White(This message has been edited by Bob White)

I have difficulty understanding how some people feel they are fit to comment on the feelings and beliefs of a religion they do not practice, regardless if it is their own or someone elses. Respectfully, BW

Which program would that be FOG the $2 program or the $12 program? Rather than accept your guess at what the cost of hats are lets look at a 2003 catalog. I have in front of me the current catalog for one of the major manufacturers in the custom apparel industry. Here is a promotional cap (that means cheap), it is made in the USA by Union labor. It is polyester foam front, mesh back, plastic adjustable strap, (sound familiar). The bulk rate wholesale cost, unembroidered, is $5. Embroidery normally runs about $3 but lets say its $2. Thats a $7 wholesale which a retailer would normally mark-up to $12 to $14. But that would not account for the profit that the scout shop gets, which I believe is 10%. So we now have a hat that would normally sell to the end-user at $13.20 to $15.40. What does a Wolf Cub hat sell for? $11.50, No doubt another clever marketing ploy. So I ask you what would be the marketing ploy of the BSA to have an overpriced, unpopular, overstocked, optional uniform item? You speak with great conviction FOG, but in this instance very little substance. Bob White (This message has been edited by Bob White)

Thanks for clarifying the "marketing ploy". Man those folks at National are clever, creating an optional uniform piece that nobody likes, and then over-pricing it so that it will stay on the warehouse shelves. It's brilliant! By the way being in a business that does a lot of work in customized apparel, I can tell you those are more than $2 hats, around $6 wholesale. Add to that the retail mark the council pays, then the distributors percentage that the scout shop actually keeps as profit. The uniform has a very modest mark-up by retail standards. But, I know the truth isn't as fun to gripe about as things that some people make up. Bob White(This message has been edited by Bob White)

Although I do not have my uniform resources with me at the moment I am pretty confident that the yellow uniform blouse is a female Cub Leader uniform piece only. BW

FOG, I would say that the mission of scouting is the purpose would you agree? If so, the mission as defined by the BSA is "to prepare young people to make ethical choices over their lifetime by instilling in them the values of the Scout Oath and Law." So Am I willing to accept that the purpose of scouting is values. YES, I choose to accept the BSA's explaination of what the BSA is. It would seem pretty odd to make up one myself. (How can you possibly be involved in training and not know the mission of the program, and how could you know the misson, and not know that it involved values?) And whatever you do, don't make a move to do your part for those 18 advancements that the boys didn't get, because when any of the boys quit they'll look back fondly on the scouting program and the lesson of life you taught them, and so what if they quit before they turn 13, that's not your problem. Best of luck, Bob White My apologies to all for my typos, I often dash off a post and dash out to do my life, and don't always spell check. Thanks for your patience.

New Scout Patrol is hardly a "flavor of the day", it has been a part of troop operations for 14 years! And it's not age based it is experienced based. Eagledad if you train thena you have to train basewd on the methods described in today's scouting program and today's scouting resources. Today's SM Handbook describes the Patrol Method as "often made up of boys of similar age and experience". That's all those of who "crow" about retaining more scouts for longer tenure are saying, and thats all the program recommends. Why would anyone be against a method that has proven over a decade to retain more scouts. There are leaders on this board who claim an average drop out rate among new scouts in excess of 50%. That's disgusting. I have visited over a hundred troops and can honestly say that the troops who follow the recommended program with the new Scout Patrol, Troop Guides, First Class Emphasis, and boys choosing their own patrol destinys do not see antwhere near those kinds numbers. So follow the program or don't, that is between you and the scouts you serve. I hope you will choose to deliver today's scouting to today's scout's rather than a different program in a Boy scout Uniform. Bob White