Bob White

I do not know of any literature called the Boy Scout Manual. There is the Boy Scout Handbook that discusses Flag ettiqette. It says (on pg 44) that the American Flag should be flown either higher than other flags or, if on the same level, in front of or to its own far right of the other flags. When flown with the national Flags other countries, in a time of peace, the American Flag should be at the same height (all foriegn flags should be on their own similar sized poles and the flags should be similar size). As far as how it is displayed at Jamboree..there are several flag displays ther, I would expect that they would all be done correctly. Bob White

OGE your dog hunts just fine. The eagle palms were not introduced unitl 1927 about 9 years after the military's Silver Star. Happy hunting, Bob White

In the interest of time and with apologies to MK9750 I will print Mk's story that he sent me to review for his post in his absence. Mk I'm sure will be available soon for your questions. From the Desk of MK9750 The Coaching Leadership Style We have a Scout in our Troop who has Downs Syndrome. His father commented when he joined that his son was here for the camaraderie and association with regular boys, and that the "real Scouting stuff" wasn't important. We accepted Mike and his dad's position. Two years ago, we finally got Mike to summer camp. Mike was a requirement or two away from Tenderfoot. He earned Indian Lore and Swimming MBs, and in doing so, got a renewed interest in advancing. We asked a scout named Matt to lead Mike toward First Class. At first, Matt balked. "I can't work with Mike, I don't know how to work with a guy like that!" At first, he struggled. Mike's attention span isn't what Matt needed it to be successful the way he was going about it. So he asked my oldest son, another Matt, to help out. They started on Tenderfoot 1st Aid requirements. My son showed Matt how to work with Mike's ability for rote memorization to an advantage. One night, before a meeting, I walked into the meeting hall to find Matt and Mike working on 1st Aid requirements. Matt would ask, "Tell me the signs of a heart attack". Mike would start, and falter. Matt, very patiently, considering the circumstances, pressed on. "You've already gotten nausea, do you know what that means?" He'd explain it to Mike in a way that allowed Mike to remember nausea by something funny, like Matt pretending to throw up. Once he got that, he coached him until he came up with chest pains radiating toward the shoulders. He'd get Mike to make some type of finger wiggly motion that made Mike laugh, but he was able to remember. After he had that down, he'd go back to nausea, and get that and chest pain together. Then onto the next symptom, then the next. The process took about 4 weeks all together, with a lot of starting over. But eventually, Mike was able to demonstrate to the guys in his Patrol all of the signs of a heart attack, using very interesting motions and signs. Mike made Tenderfoot a couple weeks after that, and the two have been working on 2nd Class over the last year. Most of the requirements are covered the same way: Matt finding a way to get Mike to say it, developing some memory trigger, and putting everything together into learning the skill. After each skill is passed, Mike always asks the SPL if he can demo his new skill. These have become major events in our Troop, and more than one guy has asked Mike if he's going to be presenting anything that night. And that attention has spurred Mike on. And something has happened to Matt, too. The guy who always wanted to be a car salesman (actually, that always made sense to us!) now thinks he might want to go into special education. Turns out he's pretty good at working with Mike. There is absolutely no way Matt could have been successful with Mike if he didnt utilize a coaching style. Matt stayed hands on with Mike as he learned and practiced the skill. This was needed not because of Mikes personal challenges but because it is the most effective way to learn and retain new information. While working on requirements, Matt asked Mike to describe what he knew. Matt encouraged Mike to go further, and helped him retain what he discovered. He further cemented Mike's knowledge of the subject by providing positive feedback after every success. These are the elements of a "coaching" style of leadership. MK9750 I want to thank all the scouters who contributed to this explaination of the 4 Styles of Leadership. Everyone did a very good job. We all wanted to show that there are others ways to lead than bossing others around whether the leader or the followers are adults or youth. Leadership is more than getting people to do what you want them to do. It is learning how to motivate groups and individuals based on their abilities and the conditions of the task, to work together to reach a common goal. Good leadership looks for ways to develop others, maintain moral, recocognize strengths and compensate for weaknesses. What are the leadership challenges you face? How can we help? Bob White (This message has been edited by Bob White)

Directing Style of Leadership Directing is the most often used and the least often needed style of leadership. Directing is telling. In Directing the leaders gives specific instructions and closely supervises the task instructions. A Leader using a Directing style does not ask others for input, does not consider alternatives, and offers little or no positive reinforcement. The most practical and correct use for Directing is in the area of safety. A Lifeguard directs the activities of a pool or water front. They closely supervise all activities and in the case of a safety hazard or emergency tells others what to do and watches to make sure their directions are followed. In almost all cases directing is paired with punishment. Behave or get out of the pool, do what you are told or go to your room. All other styles of leadership give the scout the goal of the task and allows the scout self-determined ways to achieve it. In directing, the scout is has no personal choices and can only succeed by doing exactly what another person has decided. When used improperly or consistently Directing breeds contempt if not apathy toward the leader. Directing is also used when strict time constructions exist. When a parent tells a child to grab you coat and lunch and get to the bus stop the bus is coming down the street (sound familiar) that is directing leadership. Directing should only be used when other styles of leadership are not feasible. But as I say, it is the most common one used by scouts because it is the most common one used by adults. Take something like the menu planning we have discussed All to often the PL tells the patrol members what the duty roster is rather that delegate to those capable of independent work, supporting others and coaching a few. So duty rosters need never involve Directing. Another example is something as simple as retrieving a tent from quartermaster. If the PL is told another tent is needed he could Delegate the task to the patrol quarter master (if they have one) , he could Support by asking the scout if he knew where the tents were, have the scout tell him, agree with the response or suggest an alternative, and have the scout let him know when the tent was obtained. He could Coach by saying why dont I go with you and we can find the tent together. Since all other leadership style options are available, the last thing the PL should say is Bob go get a tent from QM its on the third shelf on the right. Telling is the last resort of leader and should be reserved for safety situations or when no other leadership styles are an option. Bob White

Scoutldr has an excellent job description. BW

And now kcolarusso do you see the silliness of comparisons? It even has FOG getting snotty with a young boy who was very polite and patient in his responses. What do they have in common? What do two different awards from two different organizations have in common? Which should we be more concerned with as as adult leaders? Bob White

More likely the boys just don't want to spend so much time walking back and forth when they could be doing an activity. If it takse 3-minutes at one camp to get to the swimm area, and 10-minutes at another, the boys aren't going to be thinking about the chance to hike for 7 more minutes. All they know is they have less time to swim. It's not lazy, they want more time doing the activities and less travel time. You can't really blame them for that. Sometimes you have to look at things through their eyes, after all it's their vacation too. Bob White

Eagle74 The Red Cross water rescue programs and the BSA Swimming MB and BSA Lifeguard all had one thing in common. A scouter from upstate New york named Albert Cahill. Al spearheaded the development of both programs. According to Al (he used to come to my Roundtables each year) The BSA one was developed first and Red Cross was based on the BSA program. He feels that the BSA program is the more demanding but they are very close. This year the BSA and Red Cross signed a letter of cooperation that will benefit both organizations. The plan is to get more adults certified as Red Cross instructors and to more closely associate our two program first aid and rescue training. I get a kick that some posters dsee G2SS as the very minimum precaustions we should take, while others see it as to restrictive and difficult to follow. If I had to trust my son's safety to one group I know which one I'd pick. Bob White

Having the parent at camp is no guarantee that the scout won't get homesick. Homesickness at camp is really campsickness. The scout is either scared, unhappy or uncomfortable and he wants the security of his home. We once had a scout whose parents were going through a divorce and he wanted to be home because he was scared about his family breaking up. My point is you can only control what you can control. While at camp make sure the scout is fed, rested, involved and accepted. Those are things you can have an effect on. If a parent comes and takes a scout home that is their families business and not ours as scout leaders. If the patrol wants to elect a new Patrol Leader that is their business. It is their patrol and not ours. Hope this helps Bob White

Well Mk9750 seems to be AWOL so until his return lets have OGE or Eamonn post. BW

Thats a unique way to choose a car. BW

drussell87Eagle Laura said he used to be a lifeguard and acted as a BSA lifeguard. She did not say he is a life guard or that he is a BSA certified Lifeguard. So I presume he is neither but because of his experience "acted as a lifeguard as Laura stated. As far as the life line please review this passage from the BSA's guide to Safe Scouting. "For unit swims in areas where lifeguards are not provided by others, the supervisor should designate two capable swimmers as lifeguards. Station them ashore, equipped with a lifeline (a 100-foot length of 3/8-inch nylon cord). In an emergency, one carries out the line; the other feeds it out from shore, then pulls in his partner and the person being helped." Hope this helps, Bob White

MK9750, We are waiting for your post in "Working with Kids" on the 4 Styles. Bob(This message has been edited by Bob White)

I have never been in a scout unit that restricted parents from camping,m whether over a weekend or a week. It's important to make sure before they go that they understand their role. They are there as guests. They do not help the patrols with chores. They do not interfere in adult or youth leadership unless it is to prevent serious injury. They sit, read, eat drink, observe and enjoy, just as any guest in my home. Bob White

Why compare? Everyone (except Bob) compares nearly everything. Cars, yards, girlfriends, houses, jobs, stock portfolios. It is pretty much human nature. Not all human nature is worthwhile. Compare girlfriends? Why if you decide the other person has a better one you will like yours less? How shallow is that? Compare cars? My boss drives a Jaguar, I have a minivan. I could never haul my camping equipment in a sports car. Just because her car is more valuable does that make my van less valuable to me? It's not like I will trade the van in for a sports car. If she wants to brag about the value of her car over mine that's fine with me, I still like my van. Now lets compare your girlfriend to my minivan, because that makes as much sense as comparing the Eagle to the Gold Award. If you decide Eagle is tougher to earn does that make the Gold Award less of an honor for the girl who earns it? Does it make us a beter program? Can a girl change anything to earn the Eagle or a boy to earn the Gold? The only possible benefit is to establish bragging rights. Are we really that shallow? Bob White

Talk to the mom. Explain the purpose and method of the advancement program. Counsel her on how you feel her enthusiam for her son's advancement could actually harm his continued interest in scouting. Tell her she is not to talk to other scouts about her son's advancement,period. She is welcome to share any concerns with the Scoutmaster or the Troop Committee Advancement Chair, but not with another scout. Also explain, that for reasons of safety and proper administration, she is not to organize any events involving the patrols or troop without permission from the Committee Chair and the Scoutmaster. The best way to end this problem is direct and honest communication with the mom. Good Luck, Bob White

I'm not being defensive kcolarusso, I'm urging you to not get in the middle of such a pointless duel. "My badge is tougher than your badge" is not a worthwhile use of volunteer time and resources. This is a battle of pretentiousness and should not be indulged in. "The GS person always states that the Gold is tougher and the BS person always states that the Eagle is tougher." So What? Does it really matter if one is tougher tahn the other? It's like that bumper sticker... "My honor roll student can beat up your honor roll student." Both the Eagle Scout Award and the Gold Award represent the highest rank either program has to offer. Isn't that enough? What do yo hope to settle by your research? Who will you convince? What difference will it make in either program? How will it effect the quality of your next meeting? I'm not being defensive I'm suggesting that are more important things to do in both program than this pointless comparison. Bob White(This message has been edited by Bob White)

Laura7, Having been a lifeguard doesn't count and neither does pretending to be a BSA Lifeguard. He either is a certified life guard or he isn't. The boating requiremnet does not accept "used to" be or "acts as" it says "IS". Even in troop swims the "acting lifeguards" are required to act in tandem in case of a rescue situation. One stays on the shore and feeds a rescue line tied to the other "lifeguard" as he swims to the victim. No acting lifeguard is to attempt a person to person rescue without being attached to a rescue line. Bob White

Lend them a Boy Scout Handbook and 21 merit badge books. Then lend them all the resources for the GS advancemnt program and let them meke there own comparison. Why should you waste your time trying to prove something that doesn't matter to them? Bob White

My opinion is there is no value to either organization to hold a spitting contest like this. These are two unique program with two unique awards, how can you compare them when they have so many unique elements. This is a contest of personal egos and it disrespects the fine work of both programs.(This message has been edited by Bob White)

Not unless you can't tell the difference between a water taxi or destroyer, and a canoe, raft or sailboat as identified in the sentence above. Bob White

"You don't need a lifeguard for any BSA Aquatics activities that a troop runs. If you read the G2SS it may recommend but does not require." The G2ss says in bold letters, which means unalterable policy... "A person who has not been classified as a "swimmer" may ride as a passenger in a rowboat or motorboat with an adult "swimmer" or in a canoe, raft, or sailboat with an adult certified as a lifeguard or a lifesaver by a recognized agency." Nothing in the G2ss exempts units from this policy. Bob White (This message has been edited by Bob White)

Greetings everyone, I hope you will take part in a unique discussion format. Eamonn, OGE, MK9750 and I would like to present a series of posts on the 4 Styles of Leadership. These techniques are taught in the new Scoutmaster Leader Specific Training, and in Wood Badge for the 21st Century. They were developed over the years as Situational Management by Kenneth Blanchard Ph.D. and can be found in a very compact book called Leadership and the One-Minute Manager. In Scouting, all leadership has two purposes. Think of them as counterweights on a scale, and your job is to keep the scale in balance. The two elements are Get the Job Done and Keep the group Together. Whether your goal is to teach a skill, get noisy scouts to quiet down after lights out, or plan a duty roster, you want the task to be completed but you also want to do it in a positive way that will make the person or persons you are leading to want and repeat the proper behavior. The Four Styles we are going to present are Directing Coaching Supporting Delegating We ask that you wait for all four of us to post and then feel free to ask questions, or offer situations that have flustered you and you want to learn how to use the styles to correct the problem. Remember that these styles can be used with groups or individuals depending on..The knowledge level or skill level of the person(s) being lead, and the situation surrounding the event. We hope to demonstrate this in our stories. Like Marley in A Christmas Carol, I am here to tell you of 3 more sprits that will visit you. MK9750 will go first and instruct about Coaching, OGE will go next and help you understand Supporting, I have asked Eamonn to discuss Delegating, and I will wrap it up by telling you about Directing. Keep in mind as you read these posts that these skills are not just for adults, these are the skills that Scoutmasters are supposed to be training Junior Leaders to use with the scouts, and teach the scouts to use with each other. I hope you enjoy this. MK950Your up!

No member, avowed or not, homosexual or not, atheist or not, has the right to be a member of the BSA. Membership is a privilege allowed by the BSA. No one has "a right" to be member. Bob White

You are right about that. It's amazing how much water leaks in through those needle holes. Sealing all seams on tents is a must to stay dry inside. BW