Bob White

Hi FOG, Please, if you feel my actions have in any way violated the rules or policies of this site contact the board administrators and let them know. In the mean time I find your insinuations totally lacking in scouting values and unbecoming of a leader in the BSA. Im stunned Bob White

No OGE you are all those things. You simply have not recieved your official FOG decoder book. It is set up like a dictionary but each word corresponds to a letter. Here let me look it up for you. pompous=R, arrogant=I, pedantic=G, closeminded=H bookthumper=T. Bob White(This message has been edited by Bob White)

OGE is correct RuddBaron. To say it is not adding a requirement is whitewash. You are adding TO a requirement and that is forbidden by BSA advancement policies. The only requirement a scout is required to fulfill are those written in his handbook and the official BSA Eagle kit. No More, No Less. Your unit cannot add any minimums to those requirements. (See the Advancement Committee Policies and Procedures manual) Bob White

I will grant you that maturity allows you to adequately perform the requirements of advancement as you approach Eagle Scout. But I am unaware of a device to measure maturity. Instead we measure the outward behavior that results from maturity. Scout Spirit, the ability to live the Oath and Law in your everyday life is a measurable result of maturity. The ability to actively serve in a leadership role develops and displays maturity. The ability to plan your own advancement trail, choose your own merit badges and contact your mb counselors is a measurable result of maturing. To choose, plan and lead a service project is a measurable sign of maturity. Maturity is not a requirement. It is a deleoping trait that allows the scout to complete the requirement. As leaders you have a responsibility to objectively evaluate the scouts performance in these areas according to the stated requirements and not by our subjective view of "maturity". Bob White

At this point in time the overview of Leave No Trace outdoor skills are part of the Introduction to Outdoor Skills training program. The course itself is laid out in a small manual (leaflet) designed so that a presenter (adult or youth) regardless of experience, can deliver. There is a handsom embroidered badge on completion of some specified activities in the bbochure. The full color brochure is free and available at your local council office. Be sure and take a brochure for the presenter and each participant. (I believe even adults can earn it.) Bob White

Britag, Consider why a drivers license is usually suspended. In most cases its from Driving Under the Influence or recklessness. Neither reflects the character or moral values expected of a scout leader. If half of the leaders in your council have suspended licenses than you have bigger problems than even the sages on this board can help you with. Bob White PS. Please turn off the cap lock on your keyboard. Typing in all upper case is called shouting and is considered poor manners on the internet.

We do a thorns and roses reflection at the last night's campfire too, but a little differently. I recommend you keep awy from negative phrases and have each person who speaks tlk only about themselves. we go around the circle three times each person has the chance to talk uninterrupted and without comments fromthe group. The first time around the circle we invite any scout that wants to talk, to tell us "what was the best thing you did this weekend?". The second time around we ask "what you do think you could have done better", The third time around we ask "What will you do differntly next time". I think this is a better way to reflect because it requires the scout to say "I like when I..." I could improve at...." "next time I will ...". So instead of hearing that they didn't like the rain (an event they have no control over), you get to the root of the problem, "I could have had a plan-B in case it rained", or "I could have prepared better in case it rained". Both are things the scout could have controlled. "Next time I will remember to use the packing list in my handbook" "next time I will pay closer attention to the weather forcast". That is how learning and growth take place. The scouts learn alot more and take far less offense at evaluating themselves than by being evaluated or critiqued by others. (side note) as adults our vocabulary that we use with the scouts is important. Always evaluate never critique. When you say evaluate the scout hears the word value, he expects to hear something of worth. when he hears ctique he hears critic. he expects to be told what is wrong with him personally and he immediately throws up mental barricades. Better still never evaluate people only events. With people, as Mke recommends, always reflect. Ask questions that allow the scout to evaluate himself. Bob White

Thanks Eamonn, A good use of delegation. Not a style that would orkwith each person but certainly the an effective way to deal with the person you selected. Mark also found a good way to "support" another member. Asking questons that allow the participant to reach the correct decision on his own is a good method of leading by support. How about our shy scout, what leadership style will meet his needs? Bob W.

I can't find anything that suggests it's not recommended DS. The Insignia guide only says "Members may wear only temporary patches (no badges of rank) on the back of the merit badge sash. Members may wear only one merit badge sash at a time. A merit badge sash is never worn on the belt." BW

and what about Naomi?

It may be all well and got to have facts and history on your side OGE, but what does that have to do with the Gold Mother's Star? Bob White(This message has been edited by Bob White)

And Hey! What about all those colorful temporary badges sitting in that drawer. Did you know they can be displayed in all their glory on the back half of the MB Sash? Bob White

CubsRgr8 If you went into a restaurant and the cook met you at the door and told you that he was a bad cook, would it be his fault if you stayed for the meal and it turned out bad? After all, he gave fair warning. The boy said he did not do a good job. His honesty may have earned him Scout Spirit but his lack of participation did not complete his leadership requirement. The board passed him knowing that he did not do a good job. The rank does not give the scout skills, the skills earn the rank. Why did the board unanimously pass the scout? The scout is just what he said he was. I'll give him this, he is honest and consistant. The scout needs training in how to do his job, and in what is expected of him as a leader. The committee needs to read the Advancement Committee Policies and Procedures Manual and become as honest and consistant as the scout. Just my 2 cents worth, Bob White

Accu40, In situational management as taught in the new Woodbadge for the 21st Century and SM Leader Specifc Training "Joining" was dropped. The reason is the leader is always a part of the group and with the exception of "Directing" should always be open to the groups input. But the leader never gives up responsibility to the group, because getting the job done is his responsibility. You can share authority but not responsibility. DS A great question and a typical leadership situation. I will ask each of the other three to share how their particular style would be incorporated and for which scout. As for "directing" style. Telling people what to do, in what is already a low moral situation, is not going to gain any cooperation or improve the cohesiveness of the group. So I would put it aside unless I saw a dangerous act about to take place. Only then would I resort to telling. This is a scenario that lends itself well to situational managers. Now the question is who do you coach, who do you support and who do you delegate to? While our writing staff forms their responses it would be good to hear from other posters as well. Bob White

What exactly does the SM see as his duties,other than swatting others away from the boys? The only thing that can help is training and hope that he listens, or for the Committee Chair and Charter organization rep to make an administrative change. Good Luck, Bob White

I agree 100% with the venerable Eamonn. As long as the goal of the organization is to benefit their youth members and not simply as a stage to try and damage the BSA, I wish them well and hope they thrive. Bob White

The styles of leadership have been taught in Woodbadge for many years under different names. In Wood Badge for the 21st Century they were crystalized as "situational management" They are part of the Scoutmaster/Asst. Scoutmaster Leader Specifc Training. I know that they were taught in our council's JLT for a long time and this year were presented as they are in the SM training course. Bob White

The BSA uniform beret is still official, it is simply no longer manufactured for or sold by the BSA. I am tickled by the thought that some scouters who would not wear the complete BSA uniform because it costs almost $80 would be willing to wear kilts at $400. BW

Ryon, please read the thread in 'Working with Boys' about the 4 sStyles of Leadership. I am curious as to which style you see the adult leaders in the troop use the most often, and which you see yourself and the other junior leaders using? Bob White

Yes twocubdad there is a difference. Online registration for training does not divulge information about minors that could jeopardize their safety. As AdvanceOn says the problem is security. Im sure many units would like to be able to re-charter online but the BSA is hesitant about putting personal contact info on millions of children out into cyberspace where the wrong person might access it. Bob White

The modern BSA dress uniform is worn by professionals and consists of a BSA blazer, slacks and tie. BW

In most states being a registered scouter makes you a mandatory reporter. The role of the BSA is not to investigate suspected child abuse. It is to insure that the suspected abuse is reported. I am totally surprised that the SM reported the abuse before the parents did, considering the length of time he waited to place the report. What were the parents waiting for? The role of the BSA is to insure that the rules of scouting and Youth Protection were followed. To say that the scout executive informed the scout that he did not meet the membership standards is a broad statement. There could have been other elements besides the abuse accusation that caused it. That is not the usual way this is handled. "It took the parents nearly 6 months to find out what the accusations (anyone involved int this matter from the scout executive to the troop members refused to tell the parents what had transpired) were and then to investigate the allegations. In reviewing the alleged incidents, it was found that there was no motive and actually no opportunity for the events to have actually happened. Both boys, plus 25 other adults and boys were at all three events and the boys paths actually did not cross without other adults or boys being with them." If none of the adults or boys would talk about this, then how was this conclusion reached and by whom? It also seems unusual that it is unknown what happened in the meeting with the scout executive but every other detail in the event seems known. Once the adults who were told first hand what was alleged every action from that point on should have been confidential and no one should have knowledge of any actions outside of the required parties. Im sorry but this is a lot of here say. As a commissioner did you ask the scout executive what the councils procedure was when a suspected abuse is reported? Did you ask the Scout executive what the BSAs responsibilities are in a reported abuse? Did you ask the SE if simply having an allegation made against you is enough to be removed from scouting or is there some burden of proof required? Did you ask the SE what the appeal process was? All this information can be discussed without sharing the particulars of a specific incident, and would be helpful to you as a commissioner. The Constitution controls the government not private organizations. The BSA is controlled by its bylaws and charters. It is unfortunate that on rare occassions an innocent person is punished rather than risk another person being injured. Bob White

William F de Bois MacLaren to be precise. A Scouting Commissioner who met Baden-Powell at a luncheon. When powell discussed the need for a permanent training site, MacLaren told Powell that if he found it Maclaren would pay for it. A search committee quickly found Gilwell Park. Bob White

If I have the timeline correct, and I think I do... OGE suggested the Silver Palm might come from the military and offered as an example that the silver star is above a bronze star and another poster reminded us that a silver oakleaf is higher than the gold oakleaf. FOG countered that OGE got a bad deal on a dog because the Silver Palm came along before the silver star. Bob White then reported that FOG was incorrect about his dates and the silver star predates the eagle palms by nine years. Fog ignores the truth and switches the topic to Gold Mther Stars which has nothing to do with silver star over bronze or silver oakleaves over bronze. FOG then slaps OGEs hand for spreading myths when in fact it was Fog that shared the erroneous info. His dog may not hunt but it sure can tap dance. The BSA uses silver for the highest award because the Eagle award was made of silver. It costs less than gold as precious metals go and the BSA could afford silver. When palms were introduced they followed the military with bronze at the beginning and silver at the end, gold was chosen for the center. All of BSA's highest awards have been silver. Silver Beaver,Silver Buffalo, Silver Fawn, Silver Antelope, Eagle, Silver Palm. But the Gold Mother's Star is still gold and still totally unrelated to the order of Eagle palms. Now everybody back up, cause I bet somebody's dog is probably gettin' ready to do some dancin again. Bob White

You also do not wear it with a merit badge sash. You can wear one or the other, and neither is to be worn on the belt. Bob White