Bob White

Again, while I understand that is what your opinion is, do you understand that the Venturing Leader Handbook says something different? If they are a member then they have all the member priviledges unless the program specifically says otherwise. The fact that they would not qualify for jamboree staff has no bearing as to whether or not they can hold a unit office.

emb021 writes "Something similiar happens with those registered with Venturing Crews when they turn 21. Again, they stop being a Venturers, which ends advancement, they can't hold office in the Crew (or at any level above the crew), etc, but they remain on the roster until the Crew recharters. Some people argue these Venturers are somehow still venturers after 21, which is nonsense." Actually it is not non-sense it is writtin in the Venturing Leader Manual. "Venturers registered in a Crew or Ship before their 21st birthday may continue as members after their 21st Birthday until the crew or ship recharters or until they reach their 22nd birthday." While I agree that the they cannot seek rank advancement after their 21st birthday, there is nothing that prohibits them as members from holding office or earning non-rank recognitions. This is different than the membership rule in the Boy Scout program where their youth membership ends on their 18th Birthday unless they have been granted an extension.

Scoutnut is correct. The vast majority of the people who make up the workforce of "the council" are volunteers working outside the unit level. Your assertion Apache Bob that only professionals can seek donations is incorrect.

Jblake writes "... surely one can easily determine by simple logical deduction that movie night is an activity." there is a difference between being an activity and being an appropriate activity. The role of the Scoutmaster is to guide the scouts into appropriate activities that will achieve the Aims and Missions of the Scouting program. Jblake raise boy-led to mean that anything the boys want to do. That is not Scout leadership that is abdication of leadership. Going to a movie does not need to be done on a troop meeting night and can just as easily be done on another night or as a pstrol activity. Since they will be sitting ina dark room unable to interact with each other what does it matter if they go as a troop or not. Troop meetings have a purposeand it will take take trained adults who actually understand the program to realize that and help the scouts make More appropriate decisions.

What moral issue was pushed aside for an election, the moral decisons of a young girl who had sex, a situation that the democratic party is so sure cannot be controlled so they have schools distribute condoms? The moral issue of sex outside of marriage that the dems ignored with President Clinton not just will in office but actualy IN the office. Who do democrats demand greater personal responsibility from..a seventeen year old girl or the President of the United States. Evidently the girl. The democrats cheered Obama when he said he would support his daughters choice to have abortions rather than be...and I quote "Punished with a baby". So here is a child who made a bad decision and is going to keep the baby and Dems are willing to punish her mother. Imagine the political fodder they would have made of her had she chosen to abort her child.

By jblake's definition if the boys chose to go to the movies ech week and do nothing else that would be just fine as long as it was the boys decision. What he neglects to admit is that would not be a Scout program just because the Scouts were making the decisions. Youth leadership and patrol methods are just some of the elements used to achieve the Aims and Mission of Scouting, but for them to have any values the unit program must be moving toward accomplishing the Aims and Mission. Which is why Scouting has adult leaders, and why Boy Scouting has adults and youth as leaders. The adults lead the program, the youth lead troop and patrol activities...Its been that way since B-P began the program, even he trained adult leaders. Both you and the Scoutmaster need training. Neither of you have a firm grip on what your responsibilities are, or how they interact nad training would benfit both of you. For instance there should have been comunication and an agreed upon plan for how the annual program plan would procedd before the PLC met to begin the process. Ultimately it is for you and the CR to determine if the troop is following the program and meeting the goals of the CO and the BSA. Then you need to determine whatever steps will be taken to either improve or maintain the current unit program. Certainly being able to clearly and effectively explain the needs of the CO to the Scoutmaster, and to be able to give him specific goals to be accomplishedand the tools to achieve those goals is a big part of what the CC and CR do in a troop.

What moral issue do you see is at the core here SMT224? What moral code either republican or democratic says that a candidate should not run for office if her daughter is pregnant out of wed-lock? In your original post you made this purely a GOP issue. It seems that is undefendable so now you are changing the conditions of the discussion. If you want to look at moral values being put aside for political expediencey perhaps you would like to revisit former President Clinton's sexual activity in the Oval office with an intern and yet running for, and winning, election from a democratic base that did not care what few moral values he possessed. So if the democrats did not care about Clinton's choices why should they be concerned about the choices of a 17 year old girl who is not running for any office. The fact that the democratic party would try to make this an issue only reminds us of how a pregnant teen choosing to keep her baby shows more moral values than a party that would try to negate her mother's candidacy while still defending the former president's debauchery.

Apache Bob writes "Only a paid professional Scouter can ask for donations of money." That is incorrect. Units must sell a service or product, representatives of the Council may seek donations on behalf of the local corporation for the benefit of all units. Beavah is of course incorrect. Units cannot have a letter of determination making the unit a 501©3 as the local council is already the legal BSA corporation, not the unit. Only the unit's Charter Organization can seek 501©3 status and that does not give them permission to use the name or images of Scouting to seek donations. They can however accept donations that are offered them (the CO) and the donor can seek tax exempt status for the donation based on the charter organization's corporate status. But the unit must sell a council approved product or service.

Scouting is about outdoor activities not about camping. There are lots of adventures you can have outdoors without sleeping outdoors. Some leaders need to alter their way of viewing what outdoor activities are. Keep in mind that a boy can advance all the way to Life Scout having only spent three nights sleeping outdoors. That doesn't mean he didn't explore caves, go cycling, hike through mountains, walk on glaciers, water ski, snow ski, canoe, kayak, sail, swim, rappel, go orienteering, etc. etc....camping is just sleeping outside. Let's stop making where one sleeps more important than having an active outdoor experience through Scouting.(This message has been edited by Bob White)

SMT224 writes "Getting pregnant is not ok! Getting pregnant out of wedlock is not ok. But now all this is ok because they want McCain/Palin to get elected?" Here is what bugs me personally about liberal democrats. Democrats like teenage girls a lot. Democrats do not mind them having sex otherwise they wouldn't be handing out condoms at schools. Democrats don't mind teenage girls having babies or they wouldn't have created a welfare program that rewards them for it. Democrats don't mind girls not being married and having children because for the most part democrats do not see a value in marriage and would happilly recognize "life partners" equally with married partners. Yes, Democrats like young girls, what democrats do not like are defenseless babies inside young girls. So while they will not try to stop the cause, and while they will reward them after the birth, they will go to any length possible to keep them from being born. Teenage girls will be of voting age in a few years probably in time to re-elect the democrats who made both their sex lives and the termination of their pregnancy easy and inexpensive. But the baby that was destroyed...that doesn't bother democrats at all. If Palin's daughter wanted to abort her baby the dems would be celebrating her. The problem that democrats have is that she is keeping the baby and getting married, and those are two things that are repulsive and unimportant to liberal democrats.(This message has been edited by Bob White)

Nothing says that it has to be a unit function in order for alcohol to be prohibity. he policy states "any activity were youth members are present" Does a Court of honor have youth members present? I would have to believe that it must. But if you want evidence that it is a scouting activity there are numerous locations for that including the Boy Scout Handbook, The Troop Committee Guide, The Advancement Committee Guide, The Troop Program Resources manual just to name a few.

This is the patch I have, it was only for the courses that were sponsored by the Boy Scout Division, which, as I posted, was reorganized (done away with) the week that I was there. So yes I suppose this is a bit of a collectors item. Each year I have been there the Boy Scout Division courses have had special patches made that were customized to the course. Each participant in these classes recieved one of these for their specific course and the full sets were on sale for a little less than the $160 that was being asked for on e-bay.

NJ What makes you believe that the SE has anymore experience with this than the scoutmaster has? The SM has only a few decisions to make He either calls the police or he doesn't. He gives this to the committee to deal with or he doesn't He talks to the Scout or he doesn't. Why would he need an SE? (This message has been edited by Bob White)

Just for the record, the Scouts that appeared at the last Democratic convention did so at the DNC's invitation and with the permission of the the BSA. What happened was disgusting. The young ment who were invited to come and present the American Flag for the opening ceremonies were openly ambushed by the Democratic party delegates. The entire place jeering and booing the young scouts as they entered the hall carrying the American flag. It was planned, and it was cowardly.

John, I am obviously missing something here. What is it you see the SE being able to do in this situation?(This message has been edited by Bob White)

Those cardboard ice cream containers that the ice cream shops throw out everyday make great knight's helmets. The Pack I served made rocking jousting platforms from plans found in the How To Book. The Cubs loved them. We knighted each scout using the Knight's Code of Chivalry

BadenP writes "GW, most of the good scouters are fully trained or their units would flounder, many of them choose not to wear the knots they have earned for a variety of reasons," And I have to wonder, with over 1.2 MILION adult volunteers where does one find the time to meet enough to know what MOST do? Or could it be that his statement was just a gross exaggeration and that he could not possibly know what most good leaders do. (This message has been edited by Bob White)

GaHillbilly You need to grab your dictionary. You are operating by an incorrect definition of prejudice.

There are a few more than a dozen merit badges whose contents and or requirements have changed this year with the printing of the new books. If you look at the listing at the back of a new MB book, anything with a 2008 revision date has new changes. Some changes are very minor some are major.

"It is interesting, but he laid the blame on an adult volunteer, saying that he wouldn't budge on the cost factor." Gklose, why is that interesting? Did you think that the DE makes the budget for activities?

No gcook1 you aren't over-reacting but it seems a number of others are.

"Do yeh have any evidence to suggest that was a N.E.B. decision for that reason, BobWhite?" I asked the director of Risk Management while we served on a staff together. Who do you talk to beavah?

What does Greg Shields have to do with this? or the Regional office? Fundraising is approved or refused at the local Council level. Just more more clutter to distract the conversation eh! The point remains that the units are restricted as to what they are allowed to do in the area of fundraising and especilly in soliciting donations. Magazine articles about what one unit has done in one council does not give a unit permission to do it as well.

Is there ANYBODY who does not realize that when you purchase Boy Scout popcorn, or Girl Scout cookies, or pizzas from the local high school band, etc, that you are paying more than the regular retail so that the orgaization makes a profit as well. Here is the beauty of it. Nobody has to buy it if they don't want to. The unit has p[ermission to sell it, and the consumer has the choice to by it. Millions of home nationwide seem to have no problem choosing to support the local council and scout units through popcorn sales.

Most likely a poor attempt at humor, a very poor attempt, and a very bad decision. I would ask to meet privately with the scout and his parents. I would calmly explain to the scout that his project suggestion will not be considered at this time due to inappropriate nature of his e-mail. Ask the scout if he can think of what was inappropriate about his note and ask him to explain it to you and his parents. Let him know what bothered you about his choice to include thin in the e-mail. Ask him what he believes would be an appropriate action for him to take at this time. I would let the scout and his parents know that further improper behavior could lead to his removal from the unit. I would thank thenm for their time and recopmment the scout wait a few weeks before resubmitting a proposal.