Bob White

A question Trail Pounder You are wlking in the woods when a tennegaer with a knife jumps in front of you and says "if you take another step I am going to kill you". At what point does he cross the line from stupid to murderer (Ted Bundy), isn't it the point at which you are dead? So once we "act accordingly" do you then become less dead? The fact that the scout was not injured does not diminish the olderscouts threat of injury. It was a violation of the Guide to Safe Scouting and the Values of the Oath and Law. It was stupid, serious and unscout-like. I would have sent him home. Bob White

At least "our" shows a little more awareness of others than "my" does. Bob White

The YMCA has no relation to this other than it might be used locally as a meeting place for classes. I am unaware of any first aid certification offered by the YMCA. This agreemnt is solely between the BSA and the ARC. The agreement is in effect now. Information is being disseminated through the local and regional chapters of the ARC through the local BSA councils. In the council I am in the regional ARC education coordinator met with our council training committee to explain the program. So I would suggest, if you want more information, to contact your BSA council professional responsible for training and ask if they have gotten details yet from the Red Cross. I will try to get more details posted tonight from the fact sheet I received. Bob White(This message has been edited by Bob White)

Craneace used the phrase " BSA representatives have either misused their position" Who is he considering to be a BSA representative? There is a difference between representing the program and representing the non-profit corporation. As unit volunteers we are subscribers to the BSA program. If you subscribe to Time Magazine are you a representative of Time Inc. or a representative of people who subscribe to Time? As a leader of a local unit are you representative of other scouters or are you a representative of the BSA? Several posters took his phrase to mean any volunteer member. I would not want an adult who would wear a scout uniform to a strip club to be viewed as either a representative of the program or of the BSA as a corporate entity. As a volunteer we represent the program, we are not authorized to represent the BSA movement. If Craneace is including any volunteer in his definition of BSA representative then we have a real problem. We have folks in uniform from all walks of life, all educational and social backrounds. Many have never taken the time to attend training and some who have taken training and ignore it. Would you want them to be included as representatives of the BSA. The vast numbers of errors made in the program are made by volunteers. That is not a slam on volunteers it's just a statistical reality. volunteers outnumber professionals by some 10,000 to 1. Even the problem that prompted Craneace to start this thread was created by volunteers and their families not by a representative of the BSA. I just want come clarity established as to the difference between being a representative of the BSA and representing the scouting program. Bob White(This message has been edited by Bob White)

Hi Ron, The video course is a good place to start. I would recommend supplemental training during the monthly PLC meetings usiong the contents of the new Patrol Leaders Handbook as your guide. Unlike the Troop Junior Leader Training Conference that you are looking to provide there is also a week-long summer program called JLT (Junior Leader Training) available in most councils. White Stag is a version of JLT done in a few councils. It is a week long course not really designed to be done on the unit level. Hope this helps, Bob White

Troops are made of patrols. Since I was in a patrol in that troop It was indeed my patrol and my troop. My course director by the way refers to it as "the troop he got to serve as scoutmaster". Bob White(This message has been edited by Bob White)

Poppycock and balderdash! Where did either OGE or I say you had to stop saying "My Troop"? We are saying #1 it really isn't and #2 leaders who think of it as such lead in a less positive manner than those who think of it a relate to it as "the troop I serve". By the way this isn't something I made up. this was a lesson taught to me in 1977 by William "Green Bar" Hillcourt the author of the Boy Scout Handbook for many years. But that's Okay you go ahead and lead by FOG's example. "And Bob, you in past posts have refered to units & the like as "yours"" Interestingly enough Ed if you search posts for references of "My troop", My pack" "My unit" There are only 8 references you will find when I refer to my WB troop of which I was a member, or in response to you or FOG saying "my troop". Care to guess how often you said "my Troop" Ed? in the last two years there are 129 references credited to you? 129! It's a personal choice Ed and it is one that shapes personal behavior. What harm could it do to change your attitude to one of service rather than ownership? Bob White

Bob-"If you mean that my writing adheres to fact or to the ordinary construction or primary meaning of a term or expression, free from exaggeration or embellishment, thank you, I try." ED-"No Bob, I didn't mean that at all." How couldyou not mean that Ed? What I wrote was the definition of "literal" from the Merriam-Webster dictionary. So are you saying when you said I was being "literal" that you didn't mean the definition of the word literal? Fascinating use of the English language Ed. "Time to get up?" You see this as leadership Ed? This is being helpful not leadership. There is no development taking place here. "You cook breakfast, I'll do the dishes" You don't teach patrols to use duty rosters Ed, and then trust them to do their job? Ok everyone, time to eat. Get you cups & have a seat!" You actually find in necessary to tell a scout to get his cup and to sit to eat Ed? How unique, how telling. (This message has been edited by Bob White)

Once again FOG spews forth adding absolutely no substance to the discussion. The point I am trying to make is that words count. How we view ourselves affects how we act and react. How we refer to others has an affect on how we treat them. We are not the owners of the troop so should we be consistently refering to ourselves in a possessive fashion? We are there to serve the youth and the Charter Organization so why not remind ourselves of that? It really does change the way you behave. The troop is a gathering of patrols. The troop is owned by the CO. We as adult leaders are neither the troop or the owners of it. It is misleading and presumptuious to say that we are.

I have total confidence in your ability to mange a great course Eamonn. Hope you and the rest of the faculty and participants have a moutaintop experience. Bob White

Hi Ed, If you mean that my writing adheres to fact or to the ordinary construction or primary meaning of a term or expression, free from exaggeration or embellishment, thank you, I try. And may I say I think you underestimate your experience in "directing", and given a few moments of quiet contemplation could no doubt share many, many instances as to how you have used this style to accomplish your goals. I believe it would be helpful to others to see the many positive aspects you have found for "directing" as opposed to the three other styles of leadership. I for one look forward to your input. Bob White

http://www.richardchrisman.com/BSAFiles/Large.pdf http://www.dxvi.org/DXVI_cmtee/Small.pdf

Yes, that is one of the benefits. it will take a little time to coordinate the two program's resources and material content but they are both working on that now. BW

It is not about what you mean when you say it, but about the how words can form attitudes and behavior. As Ed says it is "taking ownership". Take "responsibility" not ownership. You are responsible for serving the CO and the youth. You are not the owner of the unit or program. Bob White(This message has been edited by Bob White)

Easy one. You will find them in the Scoutmaster Handbook and in the handouts at Scoutmaster Leader Specific Training. As well as in the Troop Committee Guide.

I look at it as a verbal affirmation of what you believe. Say "my troop" often enough and you behave as though it is "your troop". You will make decisions, and base your behavior and attitude, on the premise that it is your troop. It is, as Ed points out, taking ownership. Taking it from who though? If it was yours you would "be" the owner you would not have to "take" the ownership. Scout leaders are not the owner. We should not take ownership of what is not ours. Let's refer to ourselves as who we are. We are adults who "serve the scout unit" we "serve the Charter Organization as scout leaders" we "serve the scouts of unit # **** " As Natioanal, Regional,District or Council volunteers We serve the Scouting program. It is not our program, or our unit. How you think affects how you behave. The more we say it the more we will behave like it. Bob White

Ed I would be interested in seeing your source of that information, or is it just your opinion? In fact let's give it a field test. Make a statement to the media as "a representative of the Boy Scouts of America" and lets see what your scout executive says to you. Your uniform represents the scouting program. Your actions might be viewed by some people as a representation of the program, but you are a member, not a representative, of the BSA. Bob White

One of the biggest problems I have with Craneaces request is the term BSA or BSA representative. The BSA is a program, I do not see how an educational method can perform any of the acts he suggests. BSA representative is the other problem, define who a BSA repesentative is. I can tell you who they are not. Program volunteers are NOT BSA representatives. Nowhere has the BSA entitled a volunteer to act as a representative of the scouting program. We are program leaders not representatives for the national movement. Even within the Council only the Scout Executive (correct me if I am wrong DS) is a legal representative of the BSA and authorized to sign contracts as such. Even at the national level, simply being a paid employee does not make you a representative. So who in fact is Craneace asking about? I'm not sure.

Ed, I am surprised that you would not consider protecting someone from injury, or preparation for grace at meal time, as positive situations. I too would be interested in situations that you feel are appropriate for directing that do not fit the definition or training used by the BSA. Bob White

People who pretend to be Park Rangers just because they walk through forests, even though they can't identify a tree or tell about how it grows. Bob White

TwoCubDad, the problem I believe resides in WIIFM. You are asking a volunteer to gather infor for you and bring it to you at a specific time convenient to you. The volunteer is saying to themselves WIIFM...What's In It For Me. If the unit does not get the info to you that night what happens? Is there any loss on there part? Is there any benefit for them? In any situation where you need a person or people to behave a specific way to benefit you, or someone else, you will have a certain percenage that will do so simply because you asked. but more often then not there must be an incentive attached to the action. You need a specifc reward or punishment that is sufficient to motivate the person to respond in the way you need. Bob White

I was happy to provide another example. I am even happier you recognized it. While we are on a roll let me remind you I have always said there were positive appropriate applications for "directing" but that too many leaders use directing exclusively, and do not employ the other three leadership styles which are more inclusive of others input and skills and should always be considered before "Directing". Bob White

Talk to dad in confidence. There could be any number of reasons for his comment. If there are no privacy reasons for him to tent with his son, explain the benefits of his son tenting with another patrol member. Ask him for his help in integrating his son into the patrol as quickly as possible. Bob White(This message has been edited by Bob White)

It would depend on the details of the project. i'm not prepared to say no until I have seen the evidence that it soes or soes not meet the requirements for advancement. Bob White

Johnny Scout: Mr. QM, where do you want me to put this stove? Qm: Let's get everything down to the patrol sight first. Then we can decide where the cook area will be. Thanks for your help.