Bob White

Just to help you understand how the membership works Senior_Patrol-Leader-T15, any adult volunteer registered with the BSA is refered to as a leader. All scouting registrations are through a council with the BSA. Being a registered unit leader does not give you a council position, only a unit position. The only exception being the Chartered Organization Representative. Any other unit volunteer would have to be dual registered in another District or Council level position to have a council position. So bottom line, if the adult discussed in this thread is a BSA registered unit committee person then she is indeed considered a leader. Bob White

Any temporary patch earned as a youth can be worn as a temporary patch as an adult. Bob White

"Anyone think there is a problem with a 14-17 year old Eagle????????????????????" Yes, I do. If a scout has not met the requirements and does not live by the Oath and Law, I would have a problem with it no matter what their age. On the other hand, If a scout has met the requirements annd lives by the Oath and Law the I have no problem with their Eagle Award no matter what their age. To determine that the Eagle is deserved simply because of their age group is as shallow and superficial as saying that it isn't deserved simply because of age. The only measure that counts is did they meet the requirements of the BSA. Bob White(This message has been edited by Bob White)

misnwyo, with 111 boys you can realistically have on average 30 adult leaders. You have made efforts to identify where leaders could come from, but Scouting has learned from almost 100 years of experience that you will not get the leaders you need that way. have you leocal professional get you a few cpioes of "How to Select Unit Leaders" for Cub Scouting. In it you will find a system for recruitment that is extremeley effective. In a brief overview it looks like this. 1.Identify the specific job, its responsibilities and the time needed to do the job 2. Identify the characyer traits that a person would need to do the job 3.Identify the resources available to help the volunteer do the job successfully. 3.Form a small search comittee and identify persons who fit that description. 4.prioritize the list. 5. Personally contact the individual and have two people from the search committee meet with them at their home or on neutral ground (never at a scout meeting or committee meeting) and tell them A)Why the job is important to the boys, B) Why the committee feels this individual is the BEST person to do the job C) what the job entails, the time needed, and the resources that will be given to them to help them succeed, and most of all D) that the committee is selective about the kind of person they want to help lead their children toward adulthood and the committee wants YOU. 6) keep your word, don't give them more than they signed up for. I have seen several packs follow this plan and none have ever failed to get the leadership they needed and wanted. One other point. You are correct to make smaller Dens (not patrols) * boys should be the maximum. Rather than select a Den Leader and an Asst. den leader. Select two co-leaders for each den. It is much easier to recuit that way. Forget flyers and group pleading. When you want to be effective in hitting the bullseye on a target use a rifle not a shotgun. Individual selection is the ONLY way to get sufficient quality leadership. Get the resource I mentioned and follow the steps it outlines and you will be successful. Good Luck, Bob White (This message has been edited by Bob White)

When you say you have exhausted your leader recruitment, what had you tried? Bob White

SPL, For the leaders to allow a youth to confront the adult to protect themselves from being hassled is just plain cowardly. As far as the PLC setting rules if the committee accepts them is fine, but just because you create rules isn't going to change this woman's character or behavior. Someone still needs to keep her from interrupting your meetings, and it needs to be another adult. There are other ways to deal with her than to throw her out. But that is for your adult leaders to decide and is not something you should have to worry about in any way. Bob White

Could you attach some time durations to the agenda. It will help to see how you might tune up your meeting if needed. Thanks Bob(This message has been edited by Bob White)

SPL T-15 It is unfortunate you were put in the position of having to confront the parent at your meeting. The SPL's responsibility as explained in the SM handbook and the SPL handbook is to chair the meeting and help the PLC to plan and carry out a troop program. The SM's job, according to the same resources, is to keep the group on task. I would classify controling adults as the Scoutmaster's responsibility. By the way this is the very reason why the SM should be the only adult involved in the PLC meeting. I recommend you talk to the SM and strike an accord that you focus on controling the PLC and he takes responsibility for controling adults. best of Luck, Bob White

The fair share method is absolutely attainable and has been used in many units. It basically is just saying that the unit will provide the scout the opportunity to earn his portion of the budget or the family can choose to pay it. Any money over the budget amout is given back to the scout in as a credit to use toward addition purchases. It works. Bob White

bizzybbb Could you give us an example of your typical meeting agenda? Bob White

OOPS, (he says with a blush) ...it was supposed to be 'good' size. (This message has been edited by Bob White)

DSteele can answer this best as a professional. I can give you my understanding as a volunteer and DS can correct where I mess up. First you need to correct some terms. The National Council is the parent non-profit organization of all the individual councils. It is also a conglomeration of divisions, each with their own specific areas of responsibility some of which are program and some of which are administrative. The cub scout program is a division of the national office. The governing body of all traditional BSA programs is the National Executive Board of the BSA which is made of volunteers both youth and adult, as well as professionals. the top professional in the country is the Chief Scout Executive, the top volunteer is the BSA National President. Decisions such as uniforming, advancement, health and safety, events, program, etc., etc., are made by national committees formed by adult and youth volunteers from across the country, and experts in fields related to the responsibilities of the committee. Each committee has a professional advisor who works to implement and distrubute the decisions and information formed by the committees. The results of the committee are reviewed and enacted or rejected by the National Executive Board. The scouting program (despite popular belief)is not determined by the professionals at national. They are determined by volunteer committees made of members of our community and are then supported and disseminated by the efforts of the professional staff in Irving, TX. How did I do DS? Bob White(This message has been edited by Bob White)

There is a god size portion of a page dedicated to the neckerchief in the Insignia Guide 2003-2005. Rather that take up space here it would be best for those looking to customoze neckerchiefs to go to thhe source and familiarize themselves with the BSA requirements. for instance, you are limited to the text that is displayed on the neckerchief. Bob White

I'm not sure what the rules are in Girl Scouts, but in Boy Scouts the neckerchief is a controled uniform piece. You should checked the uniforming regulations in the Insignia Guide before customizing one for a boy scout uniform. BW

Thanks Pounder, tuck in your shirt. (I'm not sure what we just sid to each other, it must be some kinda code.)

You can find the story of Akela in nearly every Cub handbook of the past. The indian legend used was simply an Americanized version of the story of Mogli being raised in a forest rather than a jungle. But as Shemgren said Akela came from the lead wolf of the pack that raised young Mogli in the Jungle Book by you know who and his three brothers.

Give it a rest Ed, as Trail Pounder said "What I was trying to say was Because "I" didn't go to church, and that "I" thought a minister had to sign the letter of recommendation, that "I" resigned myself to the fact that "I" wasn't going to finish the Eagle, because of my interpretation of the requirements." Now that I can agree with, but that is not the explanation he gave at first. The problem was not the church. In fact the problem was never the church or Trail's attendance or lack of attendance at a church. The problem was that Trail "resigned himself to the fact that he wasn't going to finish". He could have completed the requirements if he had chosen to. He could have pursued the question of how to establish his obedience to the Oath and Law. He chose not to. Trail Pounder was a boy at the time and had a boy's perspective of the problem. Had there been someone there who understood the advancement requirements and who had helped him earlier on to establish measuarable evidence of his activities in relation to his duty to God, then he might be an Eagle today. But it wasn't the scouting program or organized religion that kept him from Eagle. It was people not communicating that created his problems. Bob White

As I recall the emphasis shifted to follow more the Jungle Book rendition in the early 80's (it was more politically correct to eliminate the violence and gore of the original story). BW(This message has been edited by Bob White)

Hi nivipi, I would agree with Overtrained's explaination with a few additions and one retraction. Scout leaders are for the most part 21 yeras old and older, men and women from all educational, income, religious, and cultural backgrounds. Many contribute their time and skills as volunteers for decades. There are a few paid unit leaders but that is a rare situation by comparison. I would disagreee that the professional staff manage the unit volunteers, rather they support the units efforts as well as help grow the scouting movement by recruiting more youths, adults and sponsoring organizations. It is more of a support service function than a management of units and unit leaders. Bob White

OGE, Your local scout office can give you the phone number for the national scout office. If you call them they will connect you to the Venturing directors. BW

I don't know how long ago you were a Cub Scout guyw but do you recall reciting the Cub Scout Oath? It ends with the promise "to obey the Law of the Pack". The Law starts with "the Cub Scout follows Akela...". This Oath and the Law go back to the 1930's when cub scouting began. Although many of the names and animal characters of cubbing come from Kipling's Jungle Book that is not the legend of Akela first used in early cubbing. For the first 3 or 4 decades an American Indian story line was used. Akela The infant son of Arrow of Light (a great brave) and his wife Bright Eyes were set upon by enemies from another tribe. The parents were slain and Akela using a small bow and arrow made by his father killed the final enemy. Alone in the woods he was found by a Wolf who raised him. from the wolf, the bear, and the lion Akela learned wisdom, strength and bravery. As an adult he returned to his tribe and became a great chief. As Cubs you promised to follow Akela, to learn from those around you, and grow in wisdom, strength and courage. Bob White

WHOA Trail Pounder These were your words not mine "I resigned myself to the fact, that because of church, I couldn't finish. Then when I point out that no church was involved you said "I'm not blaming any church" Which is it? You said you are not blaming the church? I did not read where you held anyone else responsible? Bob White

Hi Eamonn, check your private message address. Bob White

My point Adrianvs, was not to question your personal integrity but to point out that the reason to wear or not to wear it is not based in the depth of meaning in the emblem. It is in the very simple measurement of did you earn it or didn't you and no one knows for sure except the wearer. Bob White

While much of the story is no doubt true it appears that an important part (that the soldiers guarding the tomb would ignore a direct order) is internet embellishment. BW