Bob White

Could they be told?

Not from an ivory tower but from the perspective as a BSA trainer. Scouting has done just fine with leaders learning the program from the training and resources of the BSA far before the Internet ever existed. To believe that everything about the Internet is wonderful is dangerous. It's one thing to take advice from a person in your scouting community who you have had a chance to get to know and see in action, and another to take advice from a faceless poster who you have little or no way to verify their abilities or knowledge. There are people on this and other forums who do not post the truth about what they know, and about what the BSA program and policies are. Some do it to purposely to degrade the program and confuse well meaning volunteers. Others because they have done things wrong for so long they now believe them to be right. The methods of the BSA program are in the resources of the BSA. If you want ideas on a new ceremony, a new way to teach a skill, a new place to camp or canoe or hike...these are good ways to use a forum such as this. If you want to know how scouting works read the handbooks, take the training, practice the skills. Learn from those in your community you respect. Don't follow the lead of people you do not know and do not confuse internetposts with personal relationships. Realize that not everyone here is who and what they say they are. I am not the only poster who gives the BSA references as the answer to a majority of the questions posed here. That's because we are not trying to get you to do what we say, but to do what the BSA says. After all, it is their national program. If you want to deliver a solid scouting program then do what the scouting program says to do. I'm not saying that these forums are useless just that if posters first looked for the answers in the scouting progarm, these forums would have far less traffic and posters would have far more accurate info. Bob White

There will not be a 2009 National Jamboree. The next one after 2005 will be in 2010 to celebrate the BSA's 100th anniversary. It will again be held at A.P. Hill.

"to remove any possible taint of conflict interest," I'm not sure I understand how you can have a conflict of interest on a scoutmasters conference. This is not a requirement that you pass or fail. It is one you have or don't have. The SC is a visit not a test you can fail. Until the scout meets with the scoutmaster the requirement is not complete. Once he meets with the Scoutmaster it is complete. I recommend you meet with the scout regardless of whether he is your son or not. Bob White(This message has been edited by Bob White)

NJ is correct. Wood Badge is advanced leadership skills. The Trained patch is recognition for completing basic job specific training. One does not replace the other. BW

I would recommend going. I have been to three National and a World Jamboree and have seen Boy Scouts of all ages enjoying the event. Granted a 12 year old might enjoy different aspects of the jamboree than a 16 year old, but there is plenty there for every interest and ability. Bob White (This message has been edited by Bob White)

I was about to post the same thing. Weird....

The answers you seek are best found in the resources of the BSA than in the opinions of forum posters. You will find the explaination of the purpose for Board of Reviews in the Scoutmaster Handbook on page 122. "The purpose of the Board of Review is not to retest a scout, but rather to ensure that he has completed all of the requirements, to determine the quality of his troop, and to encourage him to advance toward the next rank. The Explaination of the Scoutmaster conference is on page 120 of the Scoutmaster Handbook. The Scoutmaster conference is a visit between the Scoutmaster and the scout that is held each time the boy completes the requirements for a rank. The Conference is a valuable opportunity for a SScoutmaster to discuss with each Scout his activity in the troop and his understanding and practice of the ideals of scouting. The next page following this text explains more of this vist. As you can see the Scoutmaster conference and the BOR have very different purposes. You will find more on this topic in the Boy Scout Handbook and the Advancement Committee Policies and Procedures manual available at your council service center. Bob White(This message has been edited by Bob White)

Does the source of the idea really matter? If the scouts have an idea that the committee approves or the committee has an idea that the PLC supports is one better or worse than the other. This is a team effort. Don't worry so much about who gets to have the idea, worry about achieving the goals of scouting. Bob White

What I want is of no importance, other than as a trainer I want leaders to follow the BSA program. The BSA wants you to follow the policies they have set. If you don't understand them, they want you to err on the side of the the values of the scouting program. The question I answered was the only one that appeared in your "previous post" if there was another question you had, please restate it politely and I will respond. Bob White(This message has been edited by Bob White)

The BSA asks three things of adult leaders regarding uniforms. 1. Set a good example 2. Use the uniform as a method of teahing specific values. 3. Follow the uniform rules established and controled by the BSA. That's all. The BSa does not require a full uniform. But it does require us to not set artificial uniform controls within the unit. Each member's goal should be working toward a more complete and correct uniform. If the unit says that everyone can wear jeans, or BDUs or camo, or similar color dress panta, you are setting uniform guidelines that you have no authority to set. Do not punish scouts for incomplete uniforms, and do not set your own uniform rules it's not your job to do that. Instead lead scouts to full, correct uniforms. Bob White

Ed, Along with several other posters I got fed up with the banter being shared by some of the posters on this forum. You and I were two of them. Now I am trying very hard to mainain a calmer voice when dealing with you. You could assist in maintaining the decorum of the conversation by refraining from these backhanded comments of yours. "Each understood the rule as being that members are not to use drugs, alcohol or tobacco on scout activities. That tobacco is only to be use in restricited areas out of view of the youth, and that leaders are charged with keeping others from using tobacco in front of the youth." OK which is it? Not to use or out of view of? You statement is contradictory?" The Guide to Safe Scouting Ed says both. first it says "The Boy Scouts of America prohibits the use of alcoholic beverages and controlled substances at encampments or activities on property owned and/or operated by the Boy Scouts of America, or at any activity involving participation of youth members" Then it says in bold letters that scout leaders "may not allow the use of tobacco products at any BSA activity involving youth participants." Now ed, you know what the bold lettering mean. That is is an unalterable policy. If the BSA neant that you could allow tobacco if you wanted to, then there would be no point in making it bold. Isn't that right? Now I have no intention of changing your mind or expecting you to do anything differently. My only concern is that other readers understand the and follow the intents and policies of the BSA program. If you choose not to uphold this policy that is your choice, if you want to pretend you don't understand it so that you will not have to inforce it, then that is your choice. Your local council can deal with that if needed. If you choose to do what is in the best interest of the scouts, even if you think the rule could be worded better, that would be great. In any case there is little point for you to address me directly on this. Bob White(This message has been edited by Bob White)

"Or are you are just going to let this die again since you didn't get your way?" Again with the personal attacks Ed. I'm sorry you still find that necessary. "What does your council, district & local English professional have to say about this?" I have served in 4 councils and 4 districts. Each understood the rule as being that members are not to use drugs, alcohol or tobacco on scout activities. That tobacco is only to be use in restricited areas out of view of the youth, and that leaders are charged with keeping others from using tobacco in front of the youth. I showed this to a newspaper editor, who said that although there are other ways to say it, he undersood to passage to mean that leaders cannot allow others to use tobacco in view of the scouts. I hope that answers your question, Bob White

I think you will find the correct answer is.....it's not for the unit to decide. Completion of merit badge requirements are determined by the merit badge counselor and the requirents listed in the MB handbook. Just because a MB counselor is a member of the troop does not give the "troop" authority over the merit badge. The counselor must show competency through education, experience, or occupation in order to be the counselor. They have the only authority over the advancement as long as they stay to the requirements of the merit badge pamphlet. The troop should not be interfering or interpreting for the counselor. Bob White

The size of the Council Executive Committee ( a volunteer body) varies with the size and needs of each council. You can learn about your Concil by talking to your District Chairman or Council President. Bob White

In most cases the council is presented with 3 candidates. If the selection committee rejects all three, then three more are presented. Rarely does a council feel the need to interview more that three others. Keep in mind that the people applying have already been through a screening at the national level and are considered to be ready for the position they are applying for. As in any occupation there is no guarantee of a perfect employee, but more often than not SE's have earned the position. Bob White(This message has been edited by Bob White)

My error. I meant to sat that National determines who is promotable, and the local council executive committee select and hire. BW

Fotoscout Something you need to be aware of. national did not "place" your SE there. Your executive board hired him. The Council determines who is promotable, but the selection and hiring is done locally by the Council Executive Committee. The SE was not thrust upon you, you invited him in. Bob White

Hi Proud Eagle, Ditto to DS's post. Everyone deserves a good spleen venting rant from time to time. Loerd knows I take full advantage of that. Thanks for being willing to consider the other side of the coin on this. Bob White

With thousands of scoutmasters throughout the BSA it is easy to understand how we could have so many different qualities of unit programs and so many differing views on what makes for a good program and good methods. One thing that would help is if everyone had the same vision and understanding of the program as everyone else. The only way that can happen is for everyone to be 'reading from the same book' to borrow a phrase. The BSA has understood that for a long time, and has worked to have the information needed to have a "national" program available for all volunteers to reference so that the same questions can recieve the same answers by just reading a chapter or watching a video. What is the job description of a SM and whose description should it be? If we are here to deliver the BSA program shouldn't the BSA make that decision? See page 6 of the Scoutmaster Handbook (bold lettering on the left). Bob White

Sure we would KS, it would just be with different posters or with different complaints. ewven if the BSA offered additional options you just cannot please 6 million people plus. There will be tens of thousands who don't like the pattern of the camo, want the tan cammo not the green, or the new bit-map camo or the old traditional. Plus there will be thousands more complaining about "why did we change from the old uniform I grew up with". 20-years from now there will be the same scouters who are complaining now, saying that we should have stayed with the uniform we had before we went to the camo. BDU's would be no different. You raise a good point, the uniform is what the uniform is. We should wear it because it is the official uniform of the scouting program. When it changes, wear the new uniform. Until then we should wear it correctly and be proud of what it represents. Bob White

There are three Scout uniforms, The Field Uniform, Tan Scout uniform shirt, Green scout uniform pants or shorts, Scout belt, Scout socks, optional hat and nckerchiefs. Activity Uniform, Any scouting related polo or t-shirt, green scout uniform pants or shorts, scout socks, scout belt. The Dress Uniform that includes Scout dress slacks, Blazer and Tie. Note that none include jeans or camo. Bob White

Proud Eagle, Sorry to hear that your District is having problems. I'm sure at some time in history things worked better, and sometime in the furure it will work again. Just like some scout units go through highs and lows so do districts. Why are they the same? Because they both rely almost entirely on volunteers, and volunteers are not always available and they don't always get the job done because while you are a part-time volunteer so are the rest of us. We all have other responsibilities besides scouting. Good District volunteers are tough to come by and tougher to keep. Which is hard to believe considering all the benefits like only hearing from units with complaints, but I digress. Don't look for the DE to come to your unit, that's not their job and they have lots of other responsibilities that come first, and if they don't get those done then they lose their paychecks that cloth and feed their family. Know any scouters that know and LIKE the scouting program who are not unit leaders who would be willing to volunteer to work with units in trouble that's usually caused by adults who never learned how to play nice together? If so your DC is loking for unit commissioners. So what will get your District committee back on track? First, your COR is an officer of the District. When was the last time your COR attended a District meeting or did anything to help support the responsibilities of the District that he or she are responsible for? Second, remember that there is no "them and us" in scouting. It's just all US. every District volunteer spends time and energy away from there work and family for one reason. to help the scouts in the unit you serve. Don't worry about them not being at your meetings. When was the last time you went to theirs? Bob White With appreciation to the tens of thousands of men and women who volunteer their time to scouting on the District and council levels. (This message has been edited by Bob White)

I really do not think you can ask for the council to do much in reaching out to new leaders. The council has specific responsiboilities and some serve huge numbers of units and volunteers, often over vast areas. Districts and units are far better suited for this. First what is the unit doing. Has the Charter organization rep sent a letter to the family welcoming them to scouting, telling the family members ahow important the new leader's participation is to the unit and how much they are aprreciated? Has the unit held an informal reception so that the parents can meet all the volunteers? Was an induction ceremonmy performed at the earliest pack meeting or Court of Honor? Are they given a specific responsibility and the resources needed to be successful? Did the unit tell the District Training coordinator about the new leader? Did the unit notify their unit commissioner (if they have one)? From the District. Are new leaders recognized at the District Dinner, Are they welcomed and introduced around at Roundtable? If the units notify the training team did they get an invitation to participate in training? Did the training team warmly welcome the new leader when they arrived for training? If a unit commissioner exists did they come to a unit meeting to welcome the leader. As you can see the unit has the ability to do more than anyone else to make the leader feel welcome, and their cooperation is needed to get the most from the District as well. Hope this helps, Bob White (This message has been edited by Bob White)

I would highly recommend limiting Tiger Dens to 5 0r 6 scouts. We have that 10 boys with ten adult partners (20 people) is a a very crowded meeting when trying to do activities especiallly if you are meeting at someones home. You will find 5 or 6 tigers with partners much easier to handle and is mor like the wolf den they will be in next year. Bob White