Bob White

Part of inter-personal relationships is determining the protocol for behavior between the people involved. It can and will be different in eacg situation. How you refer to others falls in the area of the Platinum Rule. You know the Golden Rule, "do onto others as you would have them do onto you". Well the Platinum Rule is "do onto others as they want done onto them". If you want to show respect for someone then address the other person as they are most comfortable. for instance, if your SM wants to let you call him by his first name then that is an agreement between the two of you. If you are unsure how to address someone, simply ask them. Hello again MR. Smith, or may I call you Bob? Then do what makes them feel comfortable. Robert (you can call me Bob) White

I believe the only moderation that has been suggested is in the mindset held by some gun owners. No one has said change laws or restrictions. I only offered that a more logical reasoning for ownership would serve everyone better. You make it sound as if, without the average household owning a gun, our nation would be overrun by hostile forces and that's just not rational. It carries alot of stirring emotions but very little logic.

Not trying to put words in your mouth , I am trying to putmeasuarable numbers in your report. You were pretty specific about other items but glossed over this. There was no need for a subjective report on these two questions. There was a specific number of responses and specific, measurable answers. "Some do, some don't" gives the impression of a near 50/50 split and the actual response was far from that. I did not mean to imply that you thought there was no coorelation, that was a retorical question aimed at anyone who up to now has not accepted the relationship. I apologize for that confusion.

Here's on I saw at a Klondike Derby. A patrol member was sat on a snow disc 50 ft from his patrol. The patrol members were given 7 lengths of line each 10 ft long. Some lines were the same diameter some were different. As a timed event the patrol had to tie the lines together using the correct knots (square and sheet bend), then heave the rescue line to the stranded patrol member. The victim tied a bowline around his waist, the patrol tied their end with a clove hitch to the sled, then they pulled the victim and sled to safety across a predetermined line. This required the entire patrol to work together as a team to get the best possible time.

I also saw the post. Councils do not have the authority to mandate training as a condition of registration. To verify this I contacted Joe Glasscock, Director of Program Development for the BSA. Joe is responsible for all adult leader training. Here is his reply. "Hi Bob, Please put those rumors to rest. There is no national plan for required training. I have heard of counicl's that have attempted to make it mandatory, but it is not coming from national. We would like to make it so readily available that all people would complete training. Thanks, Joe Only the charter organization can mandate leadership training for the leaders chartered to their unit. The council can mandate training as a condition for members of the district and council committees because their membership resides on the council charter. For councils to mandate this, violates the Charter Organization relationship.

You don't think it was history that helped design today's military? You don't think it was history that helped to form modern day military tactics. Isn't it history that developed our current expertise in military logistics. History also teaches us that the Roman army was not defeated due to the lack of personal arms in the homes of the Roman citizens. I don't see this as a matter of not learning from history but of being aware of what was actually learned. What we learned was the importance of a trained, prepared, organized military. Without counting a single non-military gun owner the US has undisputedly the best military in world history. You want a gun for personal protection, hunting, target shooting, collecting I can see an argument for all of those. But to say you need it to protect our country from the invading Huns is not an argument that has any logical basis, only pure emotion. (This message has been edited by Bob White)

"Does your troop use NSP, FCFY method? Some do, Some dont, some use it when needed." WHAT? You aren't by any chance a little biased on this are you purcelce I count 26 responses 23 saying yes to First Class Emphasis 17 saying yes to New Scout patrol That would seem to me to be a lot more substantial than "some do, some don't" wouldn't you say? Of the 9 troops not using the New Scout Patrol, 4 of them have fewer than 12 active scouts. More than 44% Of the 17 Troops that do use the NSP only 3 Had fewer that 12 active scouts and one of those was a new unit. 17% Still think NSP has no direct coorellation to retention? Bob White

The scoutmaster is in the loop 1. to make sure the scout has the name of at least one registered, approved merit badge counselor. 2. To get to know the interests of the scout and to keep abreast of the scouts interest in earning merit badges. 3. To make sure the scout has the needed forms and a buddy to go with him, so that he is prepared for meeting the counselor. 4. To encourage the scout to continue working toward his goals of advancemnt. The goals and methods of scouting are all based on positive behavior. We are there to encourage the scouts not create artificial roadblocks. If your personal opinion is that a counselor is not doing the job correctly report it to the advancement committee. If they disagree with you, that's their opinion and it's their opinion that counts in this case. Everyone has a different idea of how a counselor should or shouldn't instruct. The fact is that a committee has the responsibility to make the determination and not the Scoutmaster. As far as the scout is concerned, the inability of adults to play nice is not his problem. You cannot punish him for it. Denying him the opportunity to meet with an approved counselor is not the responsibility or aurthority of the unit.

Whether a counselor is good or bad is subjective. it's a judgement call and it is not the Scoutmaster's jusgement that counts. Merit Badge counselors can be recruited by the Unit but theymust be registered and approved by the district and/or council advancement committees,period. The scoutmaster does not have an obligation to see that the the MB is done the way he thinks is proper. The scoutmaster has the responsibility of following the advancemt policies and procedures. It is the responsibility of the MB counselor to to the job correctly. It is the responsibility of the district/council to determine if the counselor should change their methods or be removed. One of the advantages of attending Trainng at Phhimont is you get to talk directly to msny of the National Directors. One of the Faculty memebers for the Boy Scout Advancement seminar was Terry Lawson Director of Boy Scout advancement. So I write with great certainty, the SM cannot keep a scout from meeting or completeing a MB with any registered, approved counselor. We talked in other threads of the harmful traits of the autocratic Scoutmaster abd their ability to ruin a troop. Any SM who would use their self-percieved authority to deny a scout from meeting with a bonafide counselor is a good example. If you don't think a person is a good counselor report them, counsel the scout, but you do not have the authority to deny him the choice or the advancement.

Sorry Robk, but I believe you have the wrong idea of a false dichotomy. A Dichotomy offers only two choices. A false dichotome demands a decision between two choices implying that they are the only ones to choose from. I offered neither a dichotomy or a false one. I asked for a measurement, a rating, of how important a role you believed the organized military of the US played in "being prepared". Without going into a long history debate which a forum such as this does not lebd itself to, my point was that while there are some good reasons to be raised for gun ownership by citizens, national defense is not one of them. At another time in history perhaps, in other countries less advanced, certainly. The argument that "ah you never know things may change" is weaker still. Let's keep gun ownership and it's uses in perspective. (This message has been edited by Bob White)

Cancel the freeze warning, Although the SM can counsel the scout as to how he proceeds, the scoutmaster is not the authority in approving MB counselors, that is the responsibility of the District and Council advancement committees. At the time the scout gets the blue card from the Scoutmaster, the SM makes sure that the MB counselor is registered and approved by the council. It is not the scoutmasters role to determine if a counselor is qualified once the council has approved them. If the scoutmaster has a concern he can share it with the scout and recommend another counselor, and inform the Council for re-evaluation, but the SM has no authority to deny the scout the opportunity to work with a registered, approved, counselor.

OOPS! my mistake. Page 30 of the Insignia Guide 2003-2005 (lower left hand corner)Earned Boy Scout Rank advancement may be worn on the Venturing uniform, See the Boy Scout section for guidelines. The guidelines are that you may only wear the current rank, and it is displayed on the left hand shirt pocket of the Field Uniform. The medal is worn only for formal occassions and the eagle knot is worn by adult members. Bob White

Eagle Scout rank is not a Venturing rank and so the badge is not worn on the Venturing uniform. The Eagle medal can be worn on formal occassions. I am not sure about the knot on a youth member in Venturing. I will check and get back to you.

Once you turn 18 you are no longer a youth member and you do not wear youth ranks on your uniform. Your eagle Rank badge is retired and you wear the adult Eagle rank knot. The Eagle Scout medal is for formal occassions only and can be worn on the Field Uniform (there is no such thing as a class A in Boy Scouts) or on your civilian clothes. Bob White

If the counselor is registered and approved to counsel that specific merit badge, then once he signs the blue card there is no other authority that can review, alter or deny it. If you feel that the merit badge was administered incorrectly your only recourse is to have your District Executive contact the counselor's home council and verify that he was registered and approved at the time he signed the card. If he was then the merit badge is approved, if he was not then the merit badge is invalid. But for the future, understand that no one in your unit has the authority to invalidate a merit badge once it has been signed by a registered, approved, counselor. Bob

Sounds like a good solid plan Dan. I'm looking forward to hearing about the progress. Bob

Great job Florida Scout! Now don't think me a party pooper but...technically...You are an Eagle Candidate. You are not technically an Eagle Scout until your application has been approved by the National Board of Review. They will review the contents of the Eagle application kit and make the final determination, at which time they will back-date their decision to the date of your local Board of Review, 1/06/04. You will find this in the Advancement Committee Policies and Procedures manual. They will then authorize your Eagle presentation kit to be sent out, along with the letter of congatulations from the BSA. But you have taken a huge step to becoming the nation's next Eagle Scout. Congratulations, Bob White

Have you checked out the "Ceremonies for Packs and Dens" book?

KNOTS Here is my favorite for teaching the basic knots with the new scouts. Get yourself a book on magic with ropes. There are some great ones that are easy to teach. Give each scout 6 ft of any easy to use rope I like 3/8 nylon to start with. Do some hands on training and then for every two knots the group learns teach them a magic trick with rope. They will be putty in your hands. Then we move on to rope making, learning the different types of rope, Knot relays, Turks Head neckerchief slides, Rope related camp projects Clothelines, pack racks, cooking tripods, Flagpoles that hover off the ground etc. Finish up with chariot races and a ropes course weekend. Have fun, Bob

Rob asked, "why did Hitler not take Switzerland? If you think it was due to the swiss army you are mistaken. The Germans needed Switzerland and other neutral countries as money launderers. http://www.findarticles.com/cf_dls/m1141/6_35/53460433/p2/article.jhtml?term= "He took Poland, he took Czechoslovakia, he took France and their Maginot Line!" They were not neutral, They didn't like him. Hitler had more use for them as conquered realestate and assets, than as neighbors. "Yes, I do think that having the most powerful, most advanced, military force in the world is PART of "being prepared" I'm glad you see that. Now, answer this question. On a scale of 1 to 10, with 1 being "not at all important" to 10 being "really reall really important". How big a part does the US military (including National Guard and Reserves) play in "being prepared"? (This message has been edited by Bob White)

Glenn, The only rule is you must have a registered Charter Organization Representative, Committee Chair, 2 Committee members, and Scoutmaster. From that point on there is great flexibility within the unit. Anyone who is going to wear the uniform must be registered. I highly recommend 2 registered Assistant scoutmasters (especially if you intend to be a Quality Unit). I also recommend that anyone required to follow the policies of the BSA in order to perform their job needs to be registered (treasures, advancement, unit trainer, fundraising, etc.). I don't think it is needed to register anyone who ever goes camping. But I would register anyone I selected and recruited to perform a specific role in the troop. When it comes to decision making don't worry about who is registered and who isn't. Do what the Charter Org. Rep. and the Committee Chair want to do. They are the final say in all matters unless controlled by BSA policies.

Dan, have they been to JLT (Junior Leader Taining... a week-long leadership course presented at the council level) or have they been through a Troop Lunior Leader Workshop (a one-day course put on within a troop), there is a huge difference. My sugesstion would be two special campouts. One with the PLC where they learn program planning. A second one with the troop instructors to teach them effective teaching skills. Then bring the two together at PLCs to develop a monthly plan based on themes. Using this plan you can effect the change within 60 days and the leaders and instructors will still be in the decision making process and prepared for their new roles. Bob

As the parent, I would have smiled, asked my son if he was Okay. Told him not to worry we would help him get out in a few minutes. Ask the clerk to unplug the power from the machine. Asked him or her if they had the key. Called the vendor (the machine is required to have the vendor name on it) and see if they were close enough to come unlock it. If not I would call a locksmith at my expense, offer to pay for any and all the toys that the clerk felt had been damaged. Had a laugh with my son, bought a throw-away camera and take a photo to show his mother. Kept my son happy until the locksmith got him out. Get him home and make sure that he understood what he did was wrong and explained he would lose half his allowance until the locksmith was paid for. But I'm cold like that. Bob

Dan, It might be easier if you picked a topic that we could knock around and then pick a new topic and so on. Bob For knife and ax: Make a poster board (one for each patro) sketch a drawing of a Hand Ax on it. Stick a piece of velcro (loop half) at the location of each ax part identified in the Boy Scout Handbook. Take a set of index cards (one for each patrol) and write the name of an ax part on each card. Put the loop section of velcro on the back of the card. The posters go at one end of the meeting room with the cards on the floor in front of it. The scouts line up by patrol at the other end. the scouts then have a race to identify the ax parts. A scout runs up to his patrol's poster, chooses a card and sticks it on the appropriate location. then he runs back and tags the next patrol member. Continue until all parts are correctly identified. After a couple games repeat the above but with blank cards. the scout must now recall the name of the part as well as the location. ................... Using Pine 2X2s about 18" long have each scout make a tent stake using the hand ax to shape the stake. Then have him use Paint or markers to put his name in large letters on the stake. Use these as name plates on campouts outside of the tents so that you know who is tenting where. ................... Along with teaching how to sharpen an ax, we teach the scouts how to sharpen lawnmower blades. You wouldn't believe the number of parents who say they can get their kids to mow by allowing them to sharpen the blade first. ................... Bring in a professional knife sharrpener to teach the boys how to hone a blade. .................... Have a bow saw contest where rather than timing speed, count blade draws. The idea is to teach using the entire blade in even strokes not by just goig fast. ..................... Have a contest to see which patrol can build the best ax ring. look for ..perimeter boundaries, clear of obstacles, a chopping block, a saw horse, ax sharpening jig, tool holder, gloves and goggles. ............. Bob

"Tell that to the Afghans. Tell that to the Viet Cong." Oh Please RobK, you can't be saying that you see any comparisons in technology, military capability or tactical resources between them and the USA. You don't think that having the most powerful, most advanced, military force in the world is "being prepared"?