Bob White

Hops if you are asking what the best day is for everyone, there isn't one. The best you can do is plan as far in advance as possible, get the word out early and go with the people who are available. Just accept that not everyone is likely to make every event.

Lisa, You have a very unusual situation. It's hard to believe that local professionals would have that attitude toward recruitment. Most DE's understand that that Webelos recruitment is a part of the free enterprise system. They go to the troop that does the best job. You may not get the majority of Webelos from a pack whose Charter Organization also has a troop. But that troop won't always get 100% either. family may be a scheduling conflict with their meeting night, there could be personal conflicts between youth or adults that keeps them from wanting to join. The goal of scouting is 100% transition. So, it is in the DE's best interest to let you talk to those packs. In addition, the District has a responsibility to help your troop gain in membership. At some point in time the District convinced your Charter organization to have a troop. The District now has a responsibility to help keep it going. If they won't let you talk to existing packs then they have the responsibility to start a new one. That is the DE's job not yours. I would get a meeting with the Council's Scout Executive and nicely but firmly remind him/her of the council and district's responsibility to support ALL units not just Charter Organizations who have packs and troops. Next stop is a call to regional, if what you are saying is accurate the council is not doing their job when it comes to recruiting. Good Luck

Hi Lisa, Welcome to the form. First a bit of scout leader training. The Term is Webelos with an "s" at the end, it means "WE BE LOyal Scouts". I haven't the slightest idea why you cannot get a contact list of cubmasters from your DE. That should certainly be available to you for such anactivity. Here is an option. Contact your Cub Scout Roundtable Commissioner, They will likely have a similar list or maybe even an e-mail list you could make use of. Try your DE one more time let him know you just want the Cubmaster contacts and not the youth. If you don't get cooperation then give a call to your council's Field Director (your DE's boss) and ask why the list cannot be made available to you. Don't give up. You are doing the right thing, a well planned troop activity is a powerful recruitment tool. Good Luck, Bob White

Then Mark what is your intent? Yes your post is in the correct area, but my question is what was your intent in posting it? There must be a reason you took time to do it. I simply asked what your motivation is. (This message has been edited by Bob White)

WHAT? BP said he didn't include the 11th law because if you follow the other ten in your life then the 11th is not needed. You said it meant not to follow the 10 laws rigidly. How is that even close?

I believe in was in his Aids to Scoutmastership. If you enter the phrase in a search engine yo will find several references to the quote. BW

I am curious then Mark, what was your purpose in posting the news on this lawsuit?

Hi Aquaman, I'm sorta confused (not a new state for me), Didn't they give you the Counselors guide at camp school? Which certification did you get? Something else to think about, with the new partnership with the Red Cross some of the info on BSA lifeguard has changed recently. How current was your trip to camp school, and I'm curious if anything was mentioned about this. Thanks BW

Hi Dan, Take a deep breath pal and relax. You're not negative you're just frustrated, and you have every reason to be. All of us here have shared our frustration with things and each other from time to time. The problems you point out have plagued every District and Council at one time or another. The thing you need to remember is that they seldom last forever. They come and go as leadership changes and as units go through various life cycles. The best thing to do is to understand that some of the problems are solvable and some are not. You need to realize which is which and take action when it will count. You have seen examples of that even on this forum. There are some people who refuse to use the scouting program. They site all kinds of reasons in order to obscure or avoid the fact that they agreed as scout leaders to lead the BSA's program. Leaders like that can be offered help, but if they refuse it you need to turn to those you can make a difference for, the people who want to be Scout Leaders. The vast majority of volunteers want to do a good job. They want what Scouting has to offer for the scouts, they just need time and direction from those willing to guide them. So go ahead and remind folks that there is no such thing as a class A uniform. Invite new leaders to training and roundtable, set a good in the way you follow the program. believe me, for as many noisy ones that will disagree and frustrate you there are dozens more quietly watching and improving a little at a time.

I have no doubt that the loss of the park will be an inconvenience to the council to some degree. But it is temporary and not the blow to scouting that some would hope it to be. Keepin mind that the goal of Merlyn, and Mark, and the ACLU is not to change scouting but to end scouting. My main point was that it has virtually no effect on the week-to-week program or on the mission or methods of the Scouting Movement. $1 leases are nothing new to scout councils or other non-profit organizations. Any council who does not consider these a problem in waiting is being very short sighted. The council I am in had a camp that we used for over 50 years, half the acreage was owned by us and half was leased from the town for $1 a year. We came to a turning point as to whether to spend $$$ to improve the camp or to sell it. We sold it largely because we realized the instability of such a lease in the future. This was long before we were the whipping boys for the ACLU. Councils that have these leases know that they can lose them at any a time, but enjoy them while they can. I would not be surprised to learn that a back-up plan is already in place in case one is needed. Yes it will have a budgetary effect that those are temporary as things shift to accommodate change. But no, I do not expect it to change scouting at the National or Unit level at a all.

Whats that? Now we have a problem with aromatic conservatives? What is the world coming to? If they were more like liberals they could bath in their own condensation. Well its like my Uncle Ramma Lamma Roseannadanna used to always sayItsa always somethin. Roseanne Roseannadanna

Hi Eamonn, First an update from national. The question I asked was, Since national is not mandating basic leaders training does the council have the authority to do so, or is it the Charter organizations job to ecourage or require training and the Councils job to make it available. Here is the response. "Councils are pretty autonomous, but do not "normally" mandate training. The job of training committee's is to make training available. Units are owned by chartered organizations who can set a training standard for their leadership, if they like." Not that I have anything against 100% trained leaders. I just want to see everyone stay in their own area of reponsibility. If national mandates it i will support it. It's their program to administer as they choose. But I would rather see The council not impede on the responsibility of the Charter Organizations. Now Eamonn, I do not expect evry registered adult to get "it" immediatly. I do not expect anyone to be expert at "it". All I expect is for adults to accept that there is an "it" and be open to improving and developing "it". Otherwise, if they don't like the BSA program, or refuse to follow the BSA program, they should go do something else with their lives and make room for someone who is willing to try and do the job right. Shouldn't you be looking into renting that van? Bob White

I think your son is lucky to have a dad willing to go to such lengths to make sure they have a good scouting experience. Go skiing, have a cup of hot chocolate on me, enjoy watching the crew have a good time. This has nothing to do with your District poaition. This is about your responsibility as a dad, and helping a friend who is having a rough time at the moment. Have fun.

No flame NeilLup, just a correction. Although B-P had considered adding "A Scout is not a fool" as the eventh point of his original 10, his intention was not anywhere near what you said it was. BP was referring to the idea that a scout does not do anything he knows is illegal, or unhealthy. In B-P own writings he says that he decided against it because he figured that a boy smart enough to base his life on the Scout Oath would be smart enough to stay away from anything that was unhealthful or illegal or both. I have no idea where you came up with your explanation, but it has nothing to do with what BP said.

There is no opting out of Intro to Outdoor Skills. If you are a Scoutmaster, or Assistant Scoutmaster, it is a required portion of your basic training which is required to be completed prior to attending Wood Badge. If you are not a Scoutmaster or Assistant Scoutmaster than it is not a part of your basic training requirements and not required for Wood Badge. So there is no option. If it is required for your specific position then you must complete it.

I for one am against Liberal condensation. Their always running around dripping all over the place. Leaving little sweaty puddles everywhere they go. You would think they would have the decency to at last carry a towel with them. Wipe the floor up now and then for goodness sakes before somebody slips in all that water and hurts themselves. Hire an illegal immigrant to follow you around with a mop until a reporter catches you and then claim that she doesn't work for she's just a friend, but please stop all this conden...what's that? I'm sorry speak up...c o n d e s c e n t i o n. Condescention, not condensation? Oh...Never mind. Emily Litella

I believe the "it" is a combination of A)Understanding the Methods, Aims, and Mission, B)Accepting that Scouting is not doing "stuff" in a scout Uniform. It is a method of education. If you aren't following the method you aren't scouting. C)Seeing the big picture. What you do affects scouting throughout the country, now and in the future.

To read the individual actions of 3400 people who have been presented the Medal of Honor between 1863 and 1973 check out this site. http://www.army.mil/cmh-pg/moh1.htm

An Illinois Joke What do you call two dead pigs and a tractor that won't run? The Iowa State Fair!

I'm guessing you mean MC (Committee Member) not CM (Cubmaster). We did it in one week. Tuesday night while the troop had it's meeting we had all the comittee members go through New Leader Essentials. That weekend we had a lock-in for the scouts. On Friday night when they came to drop off their scout we did Troop Committee Challenge from 6:30 pm to 9:30 pm. BANG! they were finished with basic training. To make it possible we fed them supper.

I have posted before that I enjoy a wide variety of music. The difference between us being that I don't praise it from one side of my face and condemn it from the other side.

So as of today, the scouts in San Diego still meet on their regular nights, at the regular time, and learn the same values that they learned yesterday. They still do the same activities, lead by the same leaders who all agreed to the same values. They can even still use the same land. Only now they use it under the same conditions as any other citizen of San Diego. So what's wrong with this picture? Nothing that I can see. I do think that it will be intersting to see the condition of the land a few years down the road now that the caretakers have changed.

(This message has been edited by Bob White)

So as of today,the scouts in San Diego still meet on their regular nights, at the regular time and learn the same values that they learned yesterday. They still do the same activities, lead by the same leaders who all agreed to the same values. They can even still use the same land. Only now they use it under the same conditions as any other citizen of San Diego. So what's wrong with this picture? Nothing that I can see. I do think that it will be intersting to see the condition of the land a few years down the road now that the caretakers have changed.

Dsteele would probably be a better person to answer this but here is my take on the limited info I have. 1. Some people have mistaken the national goal for 100% trained leaders as a mandate rather than a challenge. 2. Because a goal of 50% of all Key leaders completing Basic training is a requirement for Quality district it is being misapplied by some councils. 3. Some Training teams look at this as a pass to do fewer courses (less work) and force feed the attendance. 4. The people who should be the most angry about this are the Charter organization reps whose responsibility is being tread on, and CORs are for the most part unseen and unheard of. My understanding is if a council asked national "should we do this" national would say definitely NOT. My counter recommendation. DEs need to be more active in meeting IHs and explaining their responsibility to select good people and get them trained. District Training teams should make training available at least twice each month on top of on-site training on request from the units.