Bob White

The bus run from Raton to Philmont is run by Philmont and is free to the inbound and outbound guests.

Acco, Your daughter did not say "my mother does not exist and so I am not required to do the things that you say she would want me to do." The Scout did not say I hate God, because to do so one would first have to accept His existence. What the scout said was, he promised to fulfill a required obligation to "Do his duty to God" and then retracted that obligation by saying he has decided that God does not exist. The next step is for a representative at the unit or council level to ask him to reconsider his view and recommend that he seek counseling from a family member, friend or religious counselor, and then determine of his own will if he still wants to stand by his statement. If after carefull consideration he decides he is an athiest, then he cannot continue as a member in the BSA. If at sometime in the future he realizes the existence of God and his responsibility to be reverent, then he would be eligible for re-instatement.

The Sweet Sixteen of Safety, found in the Guide to Safe Scouting, requires that scouts in all activities have, and use, the proper Personal Protection Equipment (PPE). It also makes the adult leader responsible for making sure that this is done. Tackle football has a well known set of PPEs that are needed to offer a responsible as well as reasonable safety level to the participants. To ignore that need under the guise of "it's just a pick up game" is not a responsible attitude for a leader to have. Flag football is a safe an equally fun alternative that removes the risk of injuries caused by impact contact with the ground and other players. It is a responsible alternative to tackling and meets the requirements of the G2SS. This is not the stuff of urban legend, it is the stuff of responsible leadership. Urban legend is thinking you can deliver a quality scouting program without needing to know and use the scouting program.(This message has been edited by Bob White)

Proclaiming in front of the other scouts "I am an athiest" is not 'wrestling with ones inner religious beliefs'. It is announcing who won the wrestling match. There is a big difference in questioning your religious beliefs or affiliations (or questioning how God works), and stating that you are an atheist. Which is saying that you do not accept the existence of God, and cannot serve him. You cannot do the latter and keep your membership in the BSA.

There is a difference between what is acceptable for fullfilling a MB requirement an what is an approved BSA activity. A scout can can use football for advancement, a scout activity can not include playing football. Be Prepared, leading or allowing scouts to participate in restricted activities does in fact leave you vulnerable for prosecution and personal liability losses for any injuries that occur. BW

Adults who don't get trained, and adults who are trained but don't follow the program. Nothing yanks my chain like seeing boys leave the program, before they age out, because of a weak scout program. A friendly bit of advice from a veteran scouter to a future veteran scouter, goodoldeagle2. I wouldn't recommend you flash your Eagle knot as a symbol of anything other than being an Eagle Scout. The skills that made Michael Jordan a fabulous player did nothing for him as a general manager. The skills that brought you to Eagle as a youth are not the skills that will make you a good scout leader as an adult. It's wonderful to see you return to the program as an adult. But it's a different program on this side of the fence. It is neither age or youth that makes a good scout leader. It is the ability to understand and deliver the scouting program that matters. Bob White

Listen to Eamonn and Twocubdad. The BSA literature on selecting a Cubmaster is excellent and outlines what they are telling you. Determine the characteristics of person you want to be CM. Identify candidates. Prioritize them. Have a private meeting. Let them know...Their job responsibilities, Their pack support, The training and resources they will receive, The amount of time it will take (be honest), The rewards for doing the job, AND why you feel they are the BEST person to do this job. Sell the fact that you don't want somebody, you want them! This works. Bob White

I'm with Eamonn again. In a formal situation a uniform hat is appropriate. In an informal situation indoors a hat is not worn. In an outdoor informal situation the activity uniform with a scouting related hat is fine, or no uniform with a hat of choice is fine. Camping, I would think an appropriate hat for the environment and activity is what matters.

OOPS! Mia Culpa, Adult scouters do not wear a hat when in dress uniform. That refers to the suit and tie uniform. Otherwise hats are optional to the uniform, bt may be worn for formal occassions. BW (This message has been edited by Bob White)

Two problems that I see Acco40. What you just wrote is not what you wrote the first time. #1 "Each adult partner with his/her Cub Scout is responsible to plan and run an entire den meeting. #2 "Mr. Bob White, could you schedule about 35 minutes of activity for the den on February 24th" That is a huge difference. Secondly, 35 minutes doing one thing is too long for cub aged scouts, something that most parents may not be cognitive of. For that reason the activity portion of the den meeting should include numerous elements such as stunts, games, skills and craft time. The kinds of things that den leaders are trained to do and parents are not. A 10 to 15 minute program segment is about all that a parent should be responsible for in most cases. Would you agree?

Whoa Pat! you should only elect one SPL. Then he gets to select his ASPL (see the Scoutmaster Handbook, the Patrol Leader Handbook and the Senior Patrol Leader Handbook). It is important these two get along. The same process happens in each patrol. Patrol members elect a PL and he selects an assistant. The SPL selects all troop officers, and the PL selects all patrol officers. In your case I would have the patrols operate as sort of New Scout Patrols. Have them elect the first PL and have him select the APL. then in two months the APL moves up to PL and selects a new APL. When the last person moves up to PL the first PL becomes his assistant. After their two month tenure the patrol would elect their first 6 to 9-month PL and he would select his asst. Hope this helps, Bob W.

It has to do with acceptable risk levels. Impact contact is not acceptable. This is based on past injuries incurred in scouting and their causes. Do you really want to spend your time and money responding to accidents and liability claims? Neither does the BSA! You can ignore the rule if you choose, but understand that you will be personally liable, and open to both criminal and civil prosecution, for any resulting injuries. Is that a financial risk you are willing to put on your family? Then why should the BSA be expected to shoulder that same risk? Hops I am surprised by your answer, Tackle football is a prohibited activity in scouts but not flag or touch football. To say that this rule eliminates every sport is not the usual thoughtful response I have come to expect from you. Just look at the ones mentioned in the merit badge and you will see how inaccurate your response was.

Hi SM41 Two resources you might find helpful. The BSA publishes a brochure for new troop Titled The First 6-Months. I think you will find it's agendas and timetables very useful. Next, there are agendas for a new troop's first three troop meetings beginning on page 29 of the Scoutmasters Handbook. I would also recommend Rotating the Patrol Leader position every two months for 1 year to give everyone a chance to see how the PLC functions before they elect a 6 to 9-month Patrol Leader. I would also recommend a very effective way to organize the patrols so that the boys are grouped with a majority of other boys that they want to be in a patrol with. At the second meeting elect a Senior Patrol Leader and have him select an assistant. Give the others apiece of paper. Have each scout put his name at the top, and under it list 4 scouts he would like to be in a patrol with. Make sure they understand that this is part of a process and not a guarantee of who will be in the patrol. Make a spread sheet. Each boy's name becomes a row label along the first left hand column, and a column label in the same order across the first row left to right as they appear top to bottom. With me so far? Take the lists that the scouts made and in Tom's row check the column box for each scout he listed including himself. Once you do this with all ten names you will see a pattern develop. The boys with the most check marks in their column will almost certainly be voted the first Patrol Leaders (I have never seen it fail). Separate those two to four most popular into two patrols. Then by looking at patterns of who wanted to be with who you can easily set-up patrols based on natural groups. Boys who get few or no votes are a sign of boys who will need special attention from you and the junior leaders. Put them in patrols that you feel they have the best chance to succeed in. This will help you get off on the right foot and set-up patrols that are the best combination for cohesiveness. Private message me if you need further explanation. (This message has been edited by Bob White)

"Bob White, Are you saying that the DL must plan, organize, conduct every den meeting?" No. I am sharing what the Cub Scout program training, and the resources of the Cub Scout program say. See page 20-1 of the Cub Scout Leader Handbook. Den meetings are planned and lead by the Den Leader, Assistant Den Leader, and the Den Chief. If I had a parent that was a woodworker and we were doing Craftsman, I would ask that parent to help for the 15 or 20 minutes that we did that portion. But that parent is not the Den Leader and should not be given the duties of the den leader. The leader should understand and use the aims and methods of the Cub Scout program. Parents are not trained or practiced in those skills. The Den Leaders lead the den, and the den program, according to the Cub Program which hopefully all Cub Leaders support and follow.

Neckerchiefs and official BSA head gear are optional wear in Boy Scouts and Venturing. One formal situation it can be worn for is uniform inspections, if you are a youth member. the insignia guide 2003-2005 page 3 reminds us that the hat is not worn by adults in formal situations. The activity uniform allows scouts to wear a customized troop or event hat.

However, as presented to the other parents of the boys in the den, the DL requests that they "lead" (plan, organize, conduct) a den meeting. Sorry Acco, but outside of the Tiger Den this is not a method found in any program training or recommendations of the BSA, and is in fact quite oppossite of what is taught and supported in the Cub Scout program.

Acco40, I am surprised by your post. I find that you are usually right on in your understanding and use of the BSA program. But, I have no idea where you got the info you shared on the role of the Den Leader and the workings of a den meeting. I can assure you that (accept for a vague resemblance to how Tiger Dens were operated for a short period during its formation) there is not, and has not been in the past, anything in the BSA Cub Scout program that resembles what you wrote. As an example look at page 20-1 of the current Cub Scout Leader Book. The term "sharing leader" had its origin in Wood Badge. It refers to the "leader" of a group allowing the members of the group to participate in decision making, and to make use of the resources available to the group in the form of the skills and knowledge possessed by each member. A good leader draws on those skills as needed to get the job done. My experience as a Scoutmaster was similar to Eamonn's. I would meet on an informal basis with the Assistant Scoutmasters to evaluate past activity, plan future ones and do some training. This was often done around a campfire over a coffee and cobbler. We did a formal meeting maybe once or twice a year usually related to a major activity. Other than that we trained the scouts to make decisions, form a plan, and follow it. Making the program work was a responsibility shared by me, the committee chair and the COR. We gave direction to those we lead to support that activity. By sharing the leadership the ASMS in the areas of physical arrangements, transportation, QM, Webelos recruitment, etc. I was free to observe, evaluate, and train. As a Den Leader, wife learned to share leadership with the ADL, Den Chief and Denner. My wife and the ADL made the plans and each of them played a role in carrying it out. (This message has been edited by Bob White)

It is not enough to merely 'think that maybe there might be a supreme being but not knowing what it is' to meet the membership requirements of the BSA. You must "do your duty to God". The BSA requires not only a belief in God, but requires visible outward action on the part of the scout or scouter in service to God and their religious beliefs. What the BSA does not require is that you worship in a specific religion determined by the BSA, or that you conform to a specific explanation of God as predetermined by the BSA. But, real belief, and real service, are required of all members. Bob White

This Council has three troops filled and a ten person back-up list filled. All leader positions are filled and we have our first family meeting coming up in a couple weeks. We started recruiting in about March of 03.(This message has been edited by Bob White)

Congrats Manyirons.

And so which certification do you have?

Let me clarify. I was only speaking about unit membership. I did not mean to imply that a charter organization can determine membership in the BSA, if you got that impression I'm sorry. Once someone joins the BSA only the council or national may remove them from BSA membership, however that does not restrict the CO from being able to remove them from the unit. That just means they have until the end of their membership period to register with another unit and only pay a $1 transfer fee. Of course if someone is removed from the unit the Council Scout executive needs to be informed.

The decision of who can be a member belongs to the charter organization. Make sure the Institution Head and the Charter Organization Representative are aware of the problem. They are the ones who determine membership. The vote of the committee is irrelevant except for giving the IH and COR a reading on the feelings of the registered leaders in the unit. But they are not required to act according to the wishes of the majority.

My son and I are both on staff as well.

At this point it is not known if the National Jamboree will be open to the public or not. The jamboree site is Ft. A.P. Hill, it is a military base. As much as the BSA would like to have the event open to the public it is not the BSA's decision. The military is making no promises at this time, and has said that in the current security climate it is highly possible that the Jamboree will not be open for visitors. A lot will depend on the security alert level as the Jamboree nears. The explaination I was given is that if the Jamboree were to be held today it would be a closed event for staff and participants only. You can make plans to vist, but be prepared, you might have to change your plans.