Bob White

Achileez, I do not deny your right to disbelieve what you choose. I do not understand however why you think I have to respect your choice, just because you respect mine. If your choice was to lie when mine was to tell the truth, would I be required or expected to repect your choice? If your choice was to steal when mine was to be honest would I be required or expected to repect your choice? You have chosen a position that is polar opposite of my beliefs. I do not dislike you for that. I do not deny your freedom to make that choice. But, I do not agree with it nor do I respect you for it, and I no of no moral argument that would inspire me to, or any logic that would require me to. Do not think that because you have no anchor in a belief in a higher authority that you have license to do as you please, and as long as you respect others they must respect you. This is precisely why the BSA feels that a person cannot grow fully without a belief in and service to God.

I think as long as we agree that it was a silly story followed by a personal opinion with little relation to the actual purpose of the Scout uniforms as explained in the resources of the BSA, then I have no problem with what you posted. If you intended for the silly story to have a purpose in teaching the use of the uniform without actually referring to the purposes it is intended for, then I have to disagree with what you wrote. If it is your intention to deliver today's scouting program based on the methods of decades ago, that is your personal decision. It is doubtful that it that will be effective with todays youth, but that is an individual unit problem and not a BSA program problem. The fact is that of the reasons Johnsned presented for wearing the uniform gave an incomplete view of it's importance. No method of scouting stands alone, each is interrelated and supportive of others. As you correctly posted none is more important than another, and so conversely none is less important than another. Yet, the original posts leaves the impression that uniforming is merely about dressing alike, and is only one of eight methods. Actually, as I mentioned it is in fact one of only eight. Making the use of all eight vital in successfully delivering a scouting program. You then give more importance to your opinion of what the uniform means by trivializing the BSA reasons with the comment "It contains the standard Uniform Method paragraph we've all read 100 times." Should not the BSA have the power to define its own methods? If you were to refer to the Boy Scout Handbook, Scoutmaster Handbook and Scoutmaster Leqader Specific Training, you would learn additional reasons for the uniform that you have failed to mention. Think about the role the uniform plays as a supporting element of Advancement, Patrol Method, Citizenship Development, the Ideals, and the Outdoors. In addition it's effects on behavior, grooming, and self-image. The uniform is as important as any other method in achieving the aims of scouting. If you want to point a spotlight at the very few individuals who focus more on the the orientation of a knot rather than on the purpose of the method I agree. but to write-off the importance of the uniform as a method of scouting , which is how the original posts reads, is an inaccurate representation of the value of the uniform.And that was what bothered me. One last comment. In reference to your original post on this thread. Yes, how the methods are used will vary from unit to unit, but how the uniform is used and worn is controlled by BSA national policies. The BSA is very specific that a unit, or individual, has no auhtority to determine what the uniform will consist of other than the options given them by the BSA. So while your unit can choose whether or not to wear a neckerchief, they cannot make the determination that in their unit a Scout Shirt will constitute a uniform. Read the Insignia Guide 2003-2005. I agree that requiring a scout to have uniform pants to advance is a violation of the BSA advancement policies, but requiring him to be in as complete and correct uniform as possible is IN the policies. You do not have the luxury of picking which ones to support and which to ignore. If the scout does not have uniform pants he should be encouraged to get them. If he has only the shirt then he is required to wear it as complete and correct as possible. Is it impossible for the parts to be sewn in the proper location? Is it impossible to have a clean, neat shirt and tucked in. Is it impossible to wear the neckerchief over the rolled in collar or under an open collar as prescribed by the BSA? Is it impossible for the current rank, office and patrol affiliation to be properly displayed? I do not see that as policing. Do you?(This message has been edited by Bob White)

Jerry, you should really talk to your local District Executive. You have a lot of misconceptions about the financing of the BSA and local councils, and about the roll of the United Way. BSA Council funding is totally separate of the national BSA. Each council has its own needs and resources. each county United Way is independent from its national office. In some communities scouting and other traditional UW organizations have seen diminishing funds. The reasons very from political to a growth of the number of organizations within a community getting a piece of the funding pie. Camps are bought and sold across the over 200 BSA councils for a variety of reasons. It is an ongoing process that can change over time with the needs, program goals, and resources of a council. You need more information than could possibly be shared in an internet post or even multiple posts. You need to sit down and talk to the people who deal with this on a daily basis. Contact a local scouting professional.

Sturgen, Yes, as a matter of fact I could get you a price, if given the proper information. Thread count is not a consideration, stitch count is what matters. The number of colors is only of concern to patch collectors, why, I do not know because it has not effect on cost. A 10,000 stitch patch in on color costs the same as a 10,000 stitch patch in 20 colors. Thread type can also effect cost. metallics and light sensitive threads can cost more depending on the vendor. Quantity is the second largest consideration. Are you buying 200 or 100,000 or somewhere in between? Different manufacturers fix their price columns at different quantities. Shape is also a consideration, stock shapes cost less than laser edging. Provide details and I can get you an expected retail price.

cliffgolden I would be happy to assist, but perhaps first you could shed some light on the scouting resources you referenced in explaining the purpose of the scout uniform. I now wait your light.(This message has been edited by Bob White)

CubsRgr8, No, the advancement report should have triggered a contact with the units adult leadership at the time it was processed, telling them that the BOR must be made of registered committee members (except for the Eagle BOR), and that the advancement will be returned for proper signatures. A scouts Eagle rank will not be refused due to the inability of adults to follow the rules. Scoutmaster Ron, The question was inappropriate. As a parent you can approve any merit badge for which you are a registered and approved counselor. Whether the MB is Eagle required or not has no bearing on your knowledge of the topic, or your ability to act as your son's counselor.

Gags, The blue card records which requirements were completed on the way to the completed badge,. the current counselor simply talks to the scout and asks him about what he has done so far and compares it to the current requirements to see if they match. It just takes a little communicating.(This message has been edited by Bob White)

Laurie, The director of the MB event and I are saying the same thing. Since the BSA publications (the resources of the merit badge) are not yet available to the scouts, you should not be teaching them at the event. Instead teach the current requirements and give an overview of the new ones. Tell the scouts they have the choice of starting now with the current requirements, or waiting for the new ones to be published and beginning with them. Until you as the MB counselor read the new book, how can you teach its contents? As far as your second concern, the Council checks to see that all the needed merit badges have been earned, they trust the integrity of the counselors that they were earned correctly.

That's not exactly true KA6BSA, You are still on a troop activity, as proof, the scouts are still covered by accident insurance. What is likely not to be in place is the adult leader and charter organization liability protections.

It is not the SM's job to determine which version the scout uses. The date on the blue card is irrelevent. The Scout's instructions are not to start the badge until he contacts the MB counselor. The couselor, and the available resources, determine which version the scout starts with.

The Methods of Scouting are not appropriate tools for measuring a Scout, they are the tools for delivering the program to scouts. They are what the adult leadership are supposed to be doing, they are not about what the scout does.

Whether done as a a day activity, overnight lock-in or campout it is meant to be done only with the unit leaders anticipated leaders. If you have a small troop that might be everyone. But it is not intended as a large group activity. It works best in a group of 12 or less in order for everyone to garner the anticipated benefits. Anytime an adult leader allows a scout to make the decision on "the next step" then he has gone from the theoretical to the applied.

"So we are picking brains from every where to see what we can try to do to turn this situation around." What do you see as your responsibility as the SM, and what part of that responsibility do feel you have not fulfilled? What do you see as the Scout's responsibility in this situation, and what parts has he not fulfilled? The Scout cannot do your job, and you cannot do his. At what point will the scout be allowed to earn or not earn the Eagle rank based on his own efforts, and his own decisions?

Just like any embroiderer, national supply's prices are dependent on stitch count and quantity ordered. To ask how much a patch costs is like asking how much a car costs. Which car? Which patch?

Adrianvs, The G2SS is the appropriate location because it is used as the resource for listing prohibited activities.

Each year since 2000 the BSA has been in the process of either revising or re-writing the requirements for every merit badge. This process is scheduled to end at the end of 2005. In January of 2004 the BSA announced the latest revisions and re-writes. The communication MB was one of the ones completely rewritten. Until the manual is in circulation in your council the Scouts can continue to use the requirements found in the current BSA publications. After the new requirements are published scouts and MB counselors will have to follow the new requirements, unless the scout has already begun work under the present requirements. In this case the scout has a choice, he can finish under the old requirements or begin over under the new ones. What the scout (and the MB counselor) cannot do is a mix of requirements old and new to complete the maeri badge work.

Great Job! Quick suggestion. Call the SPL and review the meeting with him. Help him to discover what elements made it a good meeting and make plans to repeat the processes that worked well. Ask him for his opinion on what "the next step" should be and what part he feels ready to do. Work out the agenda for the next couple of meetings and have the SPL take responsibility for some parts, and assign the responsibility for others. Good luck, and keep up the good work, BW(This message has been edited by Bob White)

Hi Laura, In order to keep the explanation clear we need to define the terminology. The "badge" has not changed, the "requirements" to complete the merit badge and earn the badge have changed. The badge is the recognition for doing the requirements, it is not the work itself. The rules say that whatever requirements version the scout has started with he can continue to use, whether the recently revised version or the previous version. So if the scouts in the course have already begun work on the earning the merit badge they can use the previous version that they started with, if they have not begun yet they should use the revised version. What you need to do is check with national supply or your local BSA service center to see if the new version is available yet. If it is, I would teach those requirements. If it is not I would be prepared to teach the version that the scouts have access to, and do an over view of the other version. Do not worry about worksheets, few merit badges if any require that the counselor provide such materials. It is best as a counselor to evaluate what tools best suit the topic and the learning skills of the scout. Use the methods and tools that will be the most effective in teaching and coaching the specific learner.

Why do you need to heat hot water?

Yes, to the religious knot, "fine why not, no harm" to the recruiter strip, Council strip, American flag, yellow backed service star, World Crest, any temporary patch, no ranks except for Arrow of Light. I think that's all of them.

Hi Scoutmom, Maybe this will help. I'm not sure who is scheduling the BORs so that the committee doesn't know about them, but it should be scheduled by a committee member. Specifically it is the responsibility of the Committee Advancement Chair. This is also the person who should be training the board members not the ASMs or the SM. This is a committee responsibility. Some units wait for a scout to be ready to advance and then have the scout schedule a board. But that is not what the program recommends or teaches in its leader development courses. BORs should be scheduled frequently, to not only review scouts who are ready to advance, but to meet with scouts who are not advancing to find out how the troop is serving the3ir needs and to motivate the scout to continue on his advancement. Hope this helps, BW

Deaths and injuries have nothing to do with the prohibition on Laser Tag or Paint Ball. I am pretty sure that the posters who have suggested that know it is not the reason. The BSA believes (and I personally agree), that the scouting program should not be modeling activities where children point weapons at each other. Forget about accident statistics, they are irrelevant in this situation. Pointing weapons at another human being is not a lesson taught in scouting. The only exception is in law enforcement Learning for Life units when participating in supervised law enforcement exercises.

The current Cub Scout Uniform inspection sheet says one star because a current cub is only eligible for one star, the one with the yellow back. Once he is a Boy Scout he can wear two, the Cub service star and the Boy Scout service star (Yellow background, Green background). If he enters Venturing he can now where three (Yellow, Green, Orange). and then as he returns as a leader he can wear 4 one for each program, and a Blue background for adult leader service. An option for adults is to combine all youth and adult years into the blue background stars. There are also other stars that some folks might have. Brown for Varsity, Orange for Tigers (no longer used), Red for Exploring. So it is possible for a person to wear multiple stars. See the Insignia Guide 2003-2005.(This message has been edited by Bob White)

The resources listed are a very good place to learn about Boards of Review (BOR) I would add the Scout Handbook to the list. In order to do a good job you need to be familiar with the rank requirements. Here are some main ponits to remember > To serve on a BORs (except for Eagle rank) You must be a member of the troop committee. > The recommended number is 3 to 5 Committee members on a Board. > Except for Eagle, the BOR should take about 15 minutes. > While you can ask "how" a requirement was accomplished in order to make sure the troopp is following the requirements in the handbook, you CANNOT RE-TEST. So for instance, you can ask the what camp gadget he built and what lashings he used, you cannot ask him to tie a square lash for you. > The two main reasons for the BOR is for the Committee members to be able to discover how the boy is growing in the ways of scouting, and to discover if the troop leadership is doing its job in delivering a quality scouting program. > If you determine that the scout did not complete the requirement as it was described in the handbook then the advancement can be postponed until the scout completes the requirement correctly. > Make sure the Scout understands exactly why the advancement is being postponed and exactly what must be done according to the handbook to complete the advancement. > No unit or individual has the authority to add to, or subtract from, the advancement requirements of the Scout Handbook. > The BOR cannot review merit badges. You can sk the scout what he liked best, what he found the most intersting, what was the hardest..etc.. But you cannot require him to redo any merit badge in part or in whole. Once the MB counselor has signed the MB it is done.

If it's a district or council event then it should be run according to the conditions determined by the council advancement and the committee's professional advisor. What have they decided? Most likely it will be a sharing of tasks between the two. There are a number of benefits to having many of the administrative duties handled by the council service center staff. First of all they are already on the payroll to do this sort of work for the volunteers you might as well use their resources. The money collection and distribution needs to be accounted for, you might as well let the council finance manager do it from the start. The office has the time and skills to handle the administration so that volunteers are free to focus on program. I would turn it over.