Bob White

Pardon my frustration here but...Doesn't anyone TALK to scouts anymore? Is it really incomprehensible to say to a scout "tell me how you are trustworthy in your everyday life"? Just because a scout freezes up and cannot say the Oath or Law doesn't mean he he doesn't know the points or live them in his life. Ask him! Why on earth is the scoutmaster finding out, when a scout is ready for Life, that he doesn't know the Law or Oath. How can you not know this about a scout? I have never known a scout go beyond Tenderfoot and not be able to recite the Oath and Law. I know guys who after being a scout for a year be able to recite the Law and Oath 30 years later. What is being done or not being done in a unit that the Scoutmaster would be so clueless about the ability of the scouts? So, if a scoutmaster is going to punish a scout for not having the skills of scouting, who punishes the scoutmaster? Please, Please, Please, talk to your scouts. Not just at the SM conference but often, and for a purpose. even when you are just shooting the breeze, listen to what they are telling you. Watch them at outing and activities, I mean really watch them. Save chatting with the other adults for times when the scouts are resting. Do they the use the skills they were taught? Do they act according to the Oath and Law? Quit trying to control things and people. If you want to Kill a troop then be the guy "In Charge". If you want to deliver a scouting program then, Observe, Evalute, Recognize, Counsel, and Train. My rant is now officially over.

Not a problem

Hi Guys, I really hate to be the one to say ..."I don't think so", but..."I don't think so"! MK take a look at the back cover to see what it shows as the last publication date for communications merit badge. I have a feeling that the book you are looking at was published before the recent re-write. Communications has almost totally changed. Check out the new requirements here. http://usscouts.org/usscouts/mb/mb005.html Bob

The answer can be found in the Boy Scout Handbook page 11 and the Scoutmaser Handbook page 120. Read those two sections and then tell me how they relate to your question. Bob KA6BSA, you might want to read those sections as well(This message has been edited by Bob White)

cliffgolden, Please allow me to answer the questions you posed to me. "Does every Scout have to earn Eagle," Attaining Eagle is not the goal or purpose of the advancement method or a requirement of the BSA. "does everyone have to climb a mountain at Philmont," Nowhere in the scouting program is climbing a mountain at philmont even suggested to be a goal or method of the BSA program. "does everyone have to wear the full field uniform at all Scout functions? Nowhere in the resources of the BSA does it say that the Field Uniform is required or even appropriate apparel for all Scout functions. It fact the BSA handbooks and the training materials say just the opposite. They don't in Boys Life. So what? Is that wrong? No. Is that using the uniform method incompletely? Who can tell. It is just a photograph. Who's to say? The BSA and its commissioned officers We all do our best. You have been around long enough to know that is not true. We all do what we choose. Some choose to do their best, some choose to do what they want.

It has NOTHING to do with "validity". If the participants, whether youth or adult, are there because of their membership in scouting then it is a scouting activity. What is at question is liability and culpability in case of an injury. The BSA will continue to protect and provide medical coverage for the youth at the activity regardless of how many rules are broken. But if a scout is injured the adult leaders and charter organization could find that, unless they have followed the policies of the BSA, they will be unprotected by the BSA, and the BSA liability umbrella that would normally protect the volunteer from financial loss caused by civil or criminal litigation. They could in fact find themselves being sued by the BSA's insurance company for any losses they or the BSA incur do to the negligence of the leaders or Charter Organization. An unapproved scouting activity is still a scouting activity, it's just that the BSA is not liable or culpable for any problems. You are.(This message has been edited by Bob White)

"Is this adding to the requirements? Yes.

EaglelnKY The Board should talk to the scout, counsel the scout, guide the scout, but they cannot withold the advancement from the scout, unless knowing the Oath and Law is a listed requirement for that specific rank. Does the scout not knowing the oath and Law reflect on the Leader? Sure it does. But it does not signify that you do not emphasize it enough or recite it enough. It shows that nobody knew the needs and characteristics of the scout well enough to know that he was having a problem.

HANDY TIP, Ivory soap needs to cure. Unwrap it three days in advance and it will carve better.

Ron, Yes that would be a good way to look at it. EaglelnKY; The only set of standards allowed are those set by the BSA in the advancement requirements. You cannot raise or lower the bar from that point. A Tenderfood scout is required to recite from memory the Oath and Law. At the time he is tested he can either do it or he cannot. A Life scout is not required to recite the Oath and Law from memory, so how well he can do it is irrelevent to his advancement, and should he not be tested on it. He is however required to live by the Oath and aw in his everyday life. If he can show evidence of that, then he has completed the requirement. If he cannot show evidence then he does not yet complete the requirement. In testing the scout, he must do what the handbook requires, no more, no less. In reviewing the scout you CANNOT retest. You can only establish that the scout did as the requirment asked. See the Advancement Committee Policies and Procedures manual.

My concern was less about the Scoutmaster/son relationship and based more on the behaviour of other adults and scouts. Too many folks behaved very immaturely based soley on the fact that the scout's parent was the SM. The problemy was mostly caused by adults where they assumed that favoritism was taking place no matter how much effort was made by the scout and scoutmaster to remain neutral. It just didn't seem right to taint my son's scouting with that kind of behavior. Agin this is a personal choice based on what I saw at the time I was a SM.

As you already realize LongHaul, he is incorrect. You will find the evidence in the Advancement Committee Policies and Procedures manual. It will explain that the scout can complete the Merit badge under the requirements he began with. I do not have mine available or I could give you the page #, perhaps another poster will assist. I would leave this decision between the Scout and his counselor. Take computers for instance. The scout would probably much rather learn the MB with today's technology and information rather than under the outdated material. But that is still for the scout and counselor to determine.(This message has been edited by Bob White)

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You will most likely have to make a choice. Do you want a good knife that is inexpensive, or a good knife with a lock-back blade? You will be hard pressed to find both in one knife. I do not believe the recruiter locks. If you teach the safety, and proper use of the knife, effectively then I think you will find the resistance on the folding blade is more than sufficient for safety. I have found with the younger boys that their struggle to work the lock causes greater control problems and higher safety risks than a good quality folding blade. Adding the lock will probably drive the minimum price into the upper $20 range. I would offer the parents the information between the types of knives and let them choose what they want the scout to use. One last point. You will find that a dull blade is far more likely to cause an injury regardles if the blade locks or not. Bob

Hi roy, I always begin with a conversation about the difference between "tools and toys". We first go over the responsibilities that a person takes on when they use a tool. We then learn knife safety, how to care for the knife, and finally how to use it. A good inexpensive product to use for carving material is a large bar of Ivory soap for each person. The Victorinox Recruit is a good starter knife for Cubs. It sells for around $11 Bob White(This message has been edited by Bob White)

Hi Ron, It was a very easy decision. I do understand how it could be a challenge in some communities to find a scoutmaster if every parent made this decision. I had no problem being his Cubmaster, and my wife was his Den Leader. But my experience showed me the many pitfalls of being his Scoutmaster, at least in the majority of cases. Had the it been the right troop at the right time perhaps I would have changed my mind. As it happened, when he was ready for scouts it did not, and has not yet, become and neccessity. I'm not saying this is the right choice for everyone, but that it worked well for us.

cliffgolden, For the sake of brevity let me direct you to the resources of the BSA available to all scout leaders regarding the purposes of the uniform. You will find this in the Cub Scout Leader Handbook, Cub Leaders Job Specific Training Syllabi, The Boy Scout Handbook, The Scoutmaster handbook, Scoutmaster Leader Specific Training Syllabus, The Venturing Leader Handbook, and Venturing Leader Training Syllabus. Rather than reprint all of their material in the post please visit these resources. They are all available to every volunteer. I posted that the unit does not have the authority to alter the Scout uniform. You replied, " Did I say otherwise?" Yes, you did. You posted, Regarding the implementation of the uniform method, some troops only require a shirt, others shirt and pants, some add the belt, some might require Scout socks" The Uniform is a trademark of the BSA, and BSA uniform policies state that no individual or unit has the authority to alter the BSA uniform. It is OK if a scout does not own a complete uniform; he is only required to wear what he has as completely and correctly as possible. What is not allowed is for the unit to say, "you only need the shirt and belt". That is altering the Scout uniform and the unit is not free to do that as you suggested. The motivation should always be toward a complete uniform. Would you tell a scout that they only have to know half the points of the Scout Law since they are only asked to wear half the uniform? It is very noble that you find the Ideals to be the most important. The BSA disagrees and says that all methods are inter-related and equal in importance. The philosophy of the BSA is that in order to be effective -n teaching the lessons of the Law and Oath you need to use the other 7 methods. All of them. Completely. Let's just agree that we disagree. I feel that the number of scouters worried about the exact location of a service star is but a fraction of a percent of all the volunteers and not worth the energy to write about, and that the uniform plays an important role in reaching the aims of scouting. Bob White (This message has been edited by Bob White)

What you said KA6BSA was "If your are going on an outing with no tour permit, or one that is incorrectly issued, then you are not going on a BSA outing." And that is incorrect. You are still on a BSA outing, You may have put the safety of the scouts at risk, and you have certainly endangered the liability protection of the leaders and Charter organization, but it is still on a BSA activity.

You can wash a skunk as clean as you can and it is still a skunk. Dress up atheism in whatever manner you want and it is still the absence of faith in God. I agree with the BSA, without the willingness to accept God and do service to that faith a persons character cannot fully develop. Atheism is not is a religioun no matter how hard you wash it.

I deal with embroiderers on an almost daily basis in my profession. I agree that not all vendors are the same and some do price differently. if any of my suppliers charged by the color I would drop them immediately. Other than that I think you will find the information I shared to be accurate when dealing with most embroidery companies including BSA national supply.

I find your definition of religion simplistic, crass, and offensive which only helps to prove why I do not respect your choice.

I made the personal decision many years ago that I would not hold a position as Scoutmaster while my son was in Boy Scouts. The reason I chose this was because of the difficulties I saw other scouts and dads go through in that situation. It is impossible not to be too hard or too easy in almost any situation. Even if mom or dad was totally impartial every time, there would be those who would cause grief for the scout, simply because his parent was the Scoutmaster. As an ASM for my son's troop the last 4 years, I have supervised my son in his role as a Troop Guide, ASPL, and SPL, the same way I would any scout, IF I was asked to do so by the SM. I have been a MB counselor for only one of his 18 merit badges even though I could of done more of them but he chose to go to other counselors, and I am doing another one with him this month. But by staying out of the SM role I believe we have both had a more enjoyable scouting experience and bypassed all of the external interference and silliness that so often accompanies SM parent/Scout son relationships. (This message has been edited by Bob White)

I respect the religious belief of others, as the Scout Law requires. What I do not respect, and am not required to respect, is the disbelief of others. I respect the religious choice of any person of any denomination, but atheism is not a belief or choice of religious belief.

"That being said the correct way is the way that is preffered in the troop, and efforts are made to get that to happen." Actually, the correct way is the method set and controlled by the BSA advancement policies and published in the resources of the BSA. No unit has the authority to alter those policies or procedures. There are specific reasons for having the scout meet with the Troop Committee rather than the ASM or SM for this portion of their advancement.

No