Bob White

It's not about money, it's about accuracy. The BSA has a real problem with publishing on the internet. Even know much of the info on-line is not accurate. The cyber world is full of info that is outdated, altered, and corrupted (for lack of a better word). There really are only a few publications needed to have all the scout policies needed to operate a unit at your disposal. Guide to Safe Scouting (free), Advancment Committee Policies and Procedures, Insignia Guide, the leaders manual for your program, the boy handbook for your rank or program, The troop Committee Guidebook for a troop, adult and youth apllications (free). I encourage every unit to make the small investment and buy them(This message has been edited by Bob White)

I agree fotoscout, I believe you are reading from an old handbook. AOL recognizes that a scout has prepared himself to join Boy Scouts. It is the highest award in cub scouting. It is by no means a consolation prize.(This message has been edited by Bob White)

Hi Hotdesk, First, which is it, are your a JASM or an ASM there is a big difference. It is important that the New Scout Patrol have an adult nearby in the form of an Assistant Scoutmaster for New Scout Patrols. These boys are used to having two adults lead them for over 4 years. You cannot completely remove direct adult leadership all at once and expect them to know how to handle things. You need an Assistant Scoutmaster there. Here are my suggestions, 1. Explain the difference to the parents and scouts. Explain that this change doesn't happen right away but will be a process that will take place over the next year. 2. We hold an election to determine the patrol leader and like in a regular patrol he selects and assistant patrol leader. The next month the APL becomes the PL and chooses a new APL and so on until everyone has had a chance to work with the Guide as a PL and attend a PLC meeting. 3. The Troop Guide acts as a co-leader with the PL he allows the PL to be the voice of the leadership team and he acts as a coach to help the new scout understand the leadership skills and responsibilities. The ASM for New Scout Patrols and the Troop Guide plan an annual program that will alow a scout who attends and participates, to learn practice and apply the skills needed to reach First Class in the first 12 to 14 months. 4. Except for opening and closing and an occassional game keep the New Scouts separate from the regular and Venture Patrols for the first 9 to 12 months. Make sure it's a hands-on program. Every thing they learn needs to be through doing. If what you are doing isn't related directly to a scout skill needed to achieve First Class, stop doing it. Hope this helps, Bob White

I have some problems with wheelers post. Basically it has a rather major erroneous premise. Wheeler writes. "Scouting was developed by Baden-Powell for the express purpose of training boys to be men. His Scout law is an incorporation of virtues: A Scout is Trustworthy, Loyal, Helpful, Friendly, Courteous, Kind, Obedient, Cheerful, Thrifty, Brave, Clean and Reverent. The problem? That isn't Baden Powells Law. That is Carter and Seton's law. It's the law adapted for the BSA. Baden-Powell's Law read as follows 1. A Scout's honour is to be trusted. 2. A Scout is Loyal to the King and to his officers, and to his country, and to his employers. 3. A Scout's duty is to be useful and to help others. 4. A Scout is a friend to all and a brother to every other Scout, no matter to what social class the other belongs. 5. A Scout is Courteous. 6. A Scout is a friend to animals. 7. A Scout obeys orders of his patrol leader or scout master without question. 8. A Scout smiles and whistles under all circumstances. 9. A Scout is thrifty. He later added a 10th law of "A scout is clean in thought word and deed." A Scout "smiles and whistles"? That doesn't sound very Gravitas to me. We all have our own opinions of what being a man is all about. I'm sure that there are volumes of writings out there each with their own philosophy. If wheeler wants to share his personal view that's fine. But let's not go making pronouncments about what have personally determined was in the mind of a man from victorian England.

I have served on the Key 3 in a couple of Districts. We met formally once a month the week prior to the District Committee meeting. After the meeting we did a reflection of the District meeting in the parking lot or over a cup of coffee and pie. It was not unusual for us to be in contact with one another over the phone or by e-mail at least every-other day.

First, from the Webelos Scout Handbook, (I think this is the current one). "Then get an "Application to become a Boy Scout," fill it out and have your parent or guardian sign it. Show it to your Webelos leader and talk about your interest in becoming a Boy Scout." The Webelos scout is required to get an application from the SM during the unit vist, but he is not required to join a troop to earn AOL. Next, the bridge cossing, in my opinion, specifically represents and celebrates the cub's continuation into Boy Scouts. As a Cubmaster I had a special ceremony for scouts who were completing Webelos, another for those who earned Arrow of Light, and another for those "bridging" into Boy Scouts. They were not always done on the same evening.(This message has been edited by Bob White)

That's not exactly right but it is close. You will find the exact uniform guidelines for the Jac-shirt in the Insignia Guide 2003-2005. There are I belive a total of 5 patch locations available on the Jac-shirt. Each location for a specific type of patch. There are more choices than have been mentioned so far. But check the official resource.

You can contact the Philmont trek office. Keep in mind that Double H is not at Philmont but is in the same state. My understanding was that all the openings were filled this year by units on stand-by for Philmont, but it never hurts to ask.

This is not a call for the Scoutmaster to make. It is the responsibility of the Board of Review to "review" how the advancement took place. While the SM does not have the responsibility or authority to revoke advancement that has been performed incorrectly (or not at all), the BOR does. The BOR should tell the scout exactly which requirements they have determined were not done according the written requirements in the Boy Scout Handbook. The next step would be for the scout to go back and correctly pass the challenges, then he can return to the BOR for consideration for advancement. The Scoutmaster should have an immediate talk with the scout and with those who allowed him to short cut the requirements. They need to be made aware that such behavior is unscoutlike and will not be allowed. I would remove the scouts who signed the book from the list of scouts authorized to endorse advancement, until they show they can be trusted. I would counsel the scout about his fulfillment of the scout law and let him know that continuing this behavior will effect him far beyond his scout years.

The BSA recommends a "Scouts' Own" Service, which is a non-denominational service based on the values of the Scout Law. (copies are avilable through your local service center. It is still appropriate to provide individual services that are faith specific, but it is important, and courteous, to make sure that all faiths are served equally.

Scouting Magazine is for adult scouters and unlike Boys' Life, is paid as part of the annual adult registration fee. Jamboree is an activity held for members of the Boy Scout Program, as opposed to the Cub Scout or Venturing Program. There is a special Venturing program area that will be staffed by a group of Venturers however no Venturing Units or Venturers will be at the Jamboree as participants. Hope this answers your questions. BW(This message has been edited by Bob White)

Sounds like you did it right. This was primarily a youth starter pack. next you moved to an exterior tube frame thata shelf to help support your sleeping bag below the pack. Finally to a military style canvas pack. You learned to pack minimal gear. The materials used for just about everything at that time was very heavy compared to today. Plastics were rare, Even ponchos were heavy and made of rubberized fabric. It was difficult to keep your gear dry, and the pack could mold with great ease. This is an excellent example of how old ways are not always better ways. My old yucca pack proudly hangs on a wall on display. If it ever tried to get onto my back again I would shoot it.

"What can I expect from Council as far as help goes with recruiting since we no longer have a DE? Would it be better for the Troop leaders to conduct a school recruiting event or just let it go until the Council finds someone willing to step into a large(8 county poor)district in the foothills of Applachia." First I would call your District Chairman and ask him/her what the plan is. They have probably been in touch with the Scout Executive or Field Director and know what is happening. I would also plan on doing your own recruitment, regardless of whether you had a DE or not. District and council is there to support your program, not to be your program. Never rely on someone else to do the most important things for you. Welcome their help, draw on their resources, but always be in control your own needs. Hope this helps, BW (This message has been edited by Bob White)

Right-On Korea Scouter!!!!

All have shared some very good ideas. I would however caution against using them as patrol advisors. with the exception of the New Scout Patrol which is assigned an ASM, advising the patrol is the Scoutmaster to Senior Patrol Leader to Patrol Leader responsibility and should not be delegated to anyone else. How about a troop trainer to get new adults through Fast Start, Youth Protection and New Leader essentials? How about beefing up the advancement committee with a merit badge counselor recruiter, a ceremonies person that finds and scripts new ceremonies, a ceremonies props committee that makes new and interesting devices to dress up the Court of Honors? A communications committee that organizes and maintains a newsletter, website, media releases, phone tree, and produces a recruitment packet, and a new member packet. The finance committee could be made of a treasurer, popcorn organizer, special events chairman. How about a person or two to head a special flag ceremomies team to represent the troop and the program at special community events where flag presentations are needed. How about an assitant Committee chair to lighten the load and fill in when the CC is unavailable? What to do with too many willing adults?. Thank your lucky stars you have such an enviable problem.

Computer merit badge is probably the most challenging one to re-write do to the rate at which the technology is changing. It will be completed no later than 2005 and is expected to be the most often updated of all the MB pamphlets. Remember that this is a huge task, to revise every merit badge book between 2000 and 2005. It is simply impossible to do them all at the same time. Be patient, the new computer MB pamphlet is forthcoming.

Dana, You understand why exploring had to be moved to Learning for Life, right?

dana, I'm not sure what FB is referring to, but since mine was the only response you got , I will presume it was about my post. There is nothing in there with my personal opinion, and I am not against you posting here, I was just pointing out that the board is populated by folks who have very little experience in Learning for Life. I suggested that there may be other forums that might be more specific to that program area. And I pointed out some facts about how the BSA is organized. I'm not sure what stones were thrown other than a few typos (sorry, I forgot to run spell check, I was multitasking at the time). I do not know why FB felt the post has antagonistic but it seems pretty clear he did. I hope you read it as it was meant, informational, perhaps instructional, but certainly not antagonistic.

Hi Terry, I don't know if you had noticed but to spell check (once you download the software from the link) you don't need to click on the Format this Post in the left column, you can just use a right mouse click. Bob White

dana renner, I believe you have a misunderstanding of Exploring and Learning for Life. They are not divisions of the BSA. Learning for Life is a division of Scouting Publications which is a subsidiary of the BSA not a division. There are no Explorer/Venturer Divisions in the BSA. There may be, in some smaller councils, professionals assigned to manage the growth of both areas. But the funding, membership, program elements and ideals are totally separate. Everyone is qualifies for membership in the BSA traditional programs also qualify for Learning for Life. But, not everyone in the Learning for Life program can qualify for membership in the BSA. This is not to minimize the importance or quality of either program, but to clarify that there is a distinct and purposeful division between the two. Do not expect to turn back time. The BSA made learning for Life in order to protect the trational scouting values you speak of, and to protect our programs served by agencies that by law or by choice are unable to charter traditional units. While your input on this board is welcome, I am sure you are aware that with the exception of a couple of posters in the issues forum that this board is inhabited almost totally of leaders and members form the traditional scouting programs. As afar as membership, do not assume that the minute decrease is harmfull or long term. Or that it is a national problem. The council I live in saw a 16% increase in scouting. If you are looking for conversations on Exploring and LFL you may want to investigate other boards as well.

Well, we are into the period of time when traditionally the Webelos who continue on into Boy Scouts have their Crossover Ceremonies. So how do the recruitment numbers look in the troop you serve? I have been told by our Webelos resource person to expect 11 to 13 New Scouts between now and the end of March. We also just had 3 older scouts join the troop. So with 5 scouts reaching their 18th Birthday and leaving the ranks, we expect a net growth of about 10. This would bring the troop up to about 44 Scouts served. This is really about the limit for our meeting room. We were actually looking to maintain the same troop size this year as last and only bring in one New Scout Patrol made primarily of siblings of current members. But after a number of other families strongly requested to join, we looked over our financial and physical resources and determined that we could take another patrol as well. It should be an exciting year. Bob White

Proud Eagle, A troop is required to have three adults on the troop committee in order to have a charter. The troop is required to have at least three committee members sit on a Board of Review. What reason would the troop have for not being able to adhere to the advancement policies of the BSA?

The best ways to get scouts to retain skills is through a planned program where they are given opportunities to practice and apply their skills regularly.

I am not sure what packsaddles point is. In both cases The adult could be held liable and culpable in case of an injury while in transit to and from the event as well as at the event. In either case unless a lawyer tried to establish a connection to the event and scouting, the BSA would not be involved in any criminal or civil suit. If however a connection was made to the activity and the BSA other repercussions would take place. First the adult would be permanently removed from scouting for vioplating the Youth protection policies. If the BSA were drawn into a suit or suits due to the improper behaviour of the leader then the BSA's insureance company would subrogate against the former leader for their loses. Would the adult have to reach into his own poacket for money? somebody has to pay the lwyer, what if he doesn't have enough insurance or the right insurance to handle the settlements? Good bye house? So what is the difference between the two scenarios? There is none. The adult is on his own in both cases. So where is the difference. Lets have scenario #3. During an approved BSA troop activity, where the policies and procedures of the BSA were followed. A scout is hit by a falling tree limb and killed. The family hires a lawyer who sue....everyone she can. The BSA pays for a lawyer to defend the adults on the trip and the CO. The BSA pays a settlement agreed upon by the parties involved. The Scoutmaster keeps his house his cars and his savings. What did all this cost him? $10 at recharter. Is it worth following the rules? You decide.

Laurie, you really need to read page 120 of the Scoutmaster handbook where it outlines the elements and purpose of the Scoutmaster Conference, and you need to attend or read the syllabus for Scoutmaster Leader Specific training. Think about this...if one purpose of the SM conference is to prepare the scout for the BOR, and the BOR is not allowed to retest...then what would be the purpose of the scoutmaster retesting the Scout? The SM prepares the scout by explaining to him the BOR process and telling him the kinds of things he should be thinking about be fore he goes in. The Scoutmaster should remind him to be on time, wear his uniform correctly, have his handbook, be ready to answer questions about his character, behavior and suggestions for improving the troop program. The only time retesting appears in the advancement policies and procedures is after the words "cannot". Retesting is not an element of the BSA advancement program, period. (This message has been edited by Bob White)