Bob White

You are right on the mark here msnowman. The cub ranks and arrow points can be transfered to the tan shirt and stay until the webelos badge is earned. Then the othe cub ranks and points come off. As far as when to go to the tan shirt, I recommend to the parents to switch once the scout has both reached Webelos, and out grows his cub shirt. This growth spurt almost always happens during his 18-month to two-year stay in Webelos.

Isn't any single source subject to error. A book can have a typo as easily as an Internet site. I would think the source of the root information is what is important. If the requirement says use a book and the scout uses the Internet, he has not met the requirement. If the requirement says 'to go to the library and research...', well one of the the research resources used by many librtaries is the Internet. If the scout went to the library and used its resources, whatever they were, it would seem to me he met the requirements as stated in the handbook. As a counselor you can require no more, and no less, than the stated requirements.

Air Scouting already exists within Venturing just as Sea Scouts does. Many Civil Air Patrol units are chartered Venturing Crews.

I do not usually make predictions but I will make one here. I think there will be a major uniform change in the near future. What it will be I have no idea. But if it happens it will be in about 6 years to coincide with the 100th anniversary of scouting. I also predict that no matter what is done there will be much wailing and gnashing of teeth until a new uniform cames along in another 25 years, after which there will be even more wailing, whining, and gnashing of teeth. There is no one on this board, at national, or in any council, that is capable of developing a uniform that will please all 6 million+ adult and youth members. Even if they please 9 out of 10 members there will still leave over 600,000 critics. And if even one one-hundredth of one percent of that tiny fraction of members who don't like the uniform write in to this forum, that will still be 60 posts. So hang on, change is inevitable and so is the fact that you cannot please all the people all the time.

"I know about the Totin' Chip, but I'm looking for stuff like length of the blade, type of knife, etc." What is the job you are doing? If you are fileting a fish, good luck tring to do it with a 3" pocket knife. Try clearing brush with a filet knife. Try scuba diving with a folding knife. The job use has to be identified first. Then we can tell you the most appropriate tool. You asked for a guideline on "knives", I think we are all trying to explain that the guideline is safe and proper use. As long as the right knife is being used in the right way for the right task, there is no problem. Did you have a specific use in mind that you wanted to know about? For instance a camp knife for scout type activities in the woods? I recommend a pocket knife with a 2 1/2 or three inch spear point blade, with limited accessories such as a can opener and leather awl for convenience and easy handling. I keep a slightly larger paring knife in my cook kit, and a filet knife in my tackle box. I do not encourage parents to allow their scouts fixed blade knives. No one who likes to run should have a knife hanging on their belt. Bob White

This is a direct responsibility of the Council/District and the BSA national Council in Irving Texas. I recommend you interview the DE of your District, the SE of your council,and contact the national headquarters and speak to folks there who handle marketing. Your SE can get you the appropriate names and numbers.

Knives are to be used and cared for properly at all times. You must earn the Totin' Chip card before using a knife of any kind during a scout activity. (see the Boy Scout Handbook)

Then what do you think would be a better way to do it?(This message has been edited by Bob White)

"But he that giveth his mind to the law of the most High, and is occupied in the meditation thereof, will seek out the wisdom of ALL THE ANCIENTS, and be occupied in prophecies. HE WILL KEEP THE SAYINGS OF RENOWNED MEN: But take heed, he that knoweth the sayings but knows not the skill of the carpenter, the smith, or the scout leader, should not tell them how to do the work that he knows not of. I do no not question your skill to quote dead philosophers, but you know nothing of the skills or tasks of the BSA and its leaders. Perhaps in your studies you came across this American Indian proverb. Don't judge any man until you have walked two moons in his moccasins. At what point will you learn about scouting, so that you have the knowledge you need to discuss it? Having an opinion on what the finished piece should look like does not allow you to call yourself a craftsman, or to tell the craftsman his job. Learn the tools and their usage. After you pick up a tool and build something, then you can talk to the craftsman.

Doesn't that assume that every camp has a water front capable of operating a boat on? Because they don't. Isn't on a boat on water the best place to earn small boat sailing? Does it really have to be surrounded by a scout camp to be the "best" place. Different camps have different resources. The best programs for them to offer are the ones they have the resources to do.

This can be easily done through the national office. Simply talk with the council professional assigned to your summer camp program.

For having boasted of such a vast knowledge of our universe and displaying such an organized mind I am perplexed that you would respond to one thread by posting in another , and that you would take the time to vent on what you see as Eamonn's hypocrisy to me. Tell Eamonn. I was writing to you of your glaring lack of knowledge about what the scouting program is or is not TODAY. You do not know. You have had no scouting experience in some 19years, you have never attended BSA adult leader training. You only seem to know bits and pieces of old handbooks and quotes from B-P that can easily be found on line without the benefit of contextual clarity. Like Old Faithful geyser you spout off beautifully and regularly but you have no idea what the rest of the park looks like. Before you tell us what we do wrong have the common courtesy to learn what we do, how we do it and why.(This message has been edited by Bob White)

You raise some good points Sturgen, but your posts do not reflect the wisdom you speak of. "Have some faith in your youth, your children; one of the biggest problems in the BSA is that it fails to put enough responsibility on the youth. Adults lead far too much." That is not a problem in the BSA, that is a problem in some individual units who do not follow the BSA program. The BSA program is found in the training , resources, methods, policies and procedures of the various scouting divisions. Sources that you do not seem to hold much respect for. "I am simply a young MAN, concerned about his peers" Your peers, if you you believe what you have written, are other leaders in the BSA program not the youth members. In Boy Scouting a 20 year old is called an Assistant Scoutmaster, not a kid, or a betweener. "Being as you seem to hold BSA Policy as gospel" As an assistant scoutmaster I would expect you you take the BSA policies exactly as they are presented, as the rules of the program. As an Assistant scoutmaster you are legally responsible for follow and upholding those policies. If you are not ready to take the rules of your community seriously, and without contempt, then you are not ready to lead no matter what your age. Do not confuse experience or knowledge with wisdom. (This message has been edited by Bob White)

Any merit badge can be learned at summer camp providing the counselor has the knowledge and the available resources to teach it. This will be depended on the physical and financial resources of the camp and the ability of the counselors. Any merit badge requirement can be completed at camp providing the scout can be tested individually, group testing is a violation of the Advancement policies of the BSA. Any Merit badge can be earned at camp if the scout can meet all the requirements as stated in the Merit Badge book, no more and no less. These are easy elements to control. the difficulty comes in changing the mindset of Scouters. Councils have trained SMs that summer camp is a place to get merit badges, and adult leaders who have erroneously trained scouts and parents that a successful summer camp is measured in merit badges. We have created this problem and it is pretty widespread. It will take everyone to fix it. Councils and unit leaders need to emphasize the real benefits of spending a week in a scouting environment. The fun, the friends, new experiences, the opportunity to learn new things, adventure. The chance to learn about several merit badges and maybe even complete some requirements or earn a merit badge. Counselors need to stick to the rules. NO GROUP TESTING. Not at summer camp, Not at troop meetings. Lets measure summer camp by the joy of spending a week scouting together. If it's time to go home and nobody wants to leave...that's the measure of a good camp experience. Just my humble opinion, Bob White

Not that all is perfect in Camelot , BUT alot of things are going great! Where to begin? The troop's recruiting is twice what we expected, we have 4 scouts going to National Jamboree (3 particpants, 1 on staff). Our council membership had a 16% increase (mostly in Cub scouts). Our District is getting its own scout office with a scout shop, and we have the OK to hire an office manager and store manager. National is taking over our council scout shop as a national store. Even though United Way is down, thanks to great support from our families and excellent Council management our Scout Reservation is getting an all new waterfront, and a new shower house. We are also having cub resident camping for the first time. Our Council communications have improved tremendously in the last 6 months. roundtable attendance is on the rise. We have already filled three troops and have a waiting list to go to Jamboree in 2005. Fun, Fun, Fun! Bob White

So by your description (except for being coed) Venturing is the same as troops and teams. Adults leaders in all programs need tolerance, Troops and teams elect their leaders. scouts in troops and teams develop their own calendar. This is not to say that adults just sit back and let it all happen and not voice their opinion or give leadership where it is needed. Adult leaders in packs, troops, and teams have to be patient and very tolerant but at the same time strict in some matters. Enforce BSA standards and make sure everything is done decently and in order. Everyone is to be treated equally. I do not understand the point of your post.

I guess Mary wanted to take the time to understand the lessons Jesus was trying to share before she tried to persuade others to follow Him. A good lesson here for you as well Wheeler. perhaps you should take the time to learn about the scouting program before you decide to tell us all how we should be doing it. How about attending New Leader Essentials and the leader specific courses for the scouting programs before you decide what it is we are all doing wrong. Like Mary, perhaps you should sit and listen first.

Sturgen said "Perhaps we should carry leather chaps, safety glasses, hard hats, and those wooden boots logger competitors wear." and whether he knew it or not he was partially right. The Boy Scout Handbook has for years told scouts to wear eye protection and sturdy boots (along with gloves) as personal protection equipment (PPE) when using the axe or bow saw. So yes, sturgen you should be carrying and using those items. Chaps however are for use with chain saws, and hard hats are for use when overhead dangers exist or when someone is working above you, they would not be appropriate for axe or saw use and are not recommended PPEs by the BSA and so your recommendation to carry them would be ill-suited to the task.

Here is a good rule of thumb. If you want answers about the scouting program go to BSA resources. There is an awful lot of wrong info on the internet. The Jamboree is for participants from the Boy Scout division, that means Troops and Teams. Regardless of what the Senior Forums say, read what the BSA has to say after all it is their program. http://www.scouting.org/jamboree/attend.html

Consider this, an axe and a saw are two different tools best used for two different purposes. If your task is to shorten a length of timber with a hand-tool, the saw is the better choice. It is more effort efficient, more accurate and leaves more usable material. If you are splitting a length of wood (to get to dry heartwood when your firewood is wet) then the ax is the better tool to choose. An axe can be just as safe as any tool, if used for the right job, and cared for properly.

Sounds like a fun program!

So If I can summarize. While you have lived a unique and diverse life you have had no involvement in the Boy Scout Program in some 26 years or more. You have never attended Boy Scout Leader training to learn the mission, aims, methods of the various scouting programs. The closest you have come is as a member of the US military which, other than saluting with the same hand has little relationship to the BSA program. And yet you are here to tell us what we are doing wrong, when in fact you have no knowledge of what we do, how we do it, or why. Is there any chance you could get the abbot to write us instead? (This message has been edited by Bob White)

Well now you've gone and done it Terry. You went and got me in trouble! I decided to try this new feature that you put in place, which you suggested was a good thing to add to your web-site. I thought that by squelching the messages from two posters, who seemed to frequently enjoy personally insulting me in their posts, that I was implementing the feature in the way you had intended. I thought that this would help bring harmony to my life, and peace to the forum. So what did I get for my effort? This e-mail from one of the two posters. "I know you blocked my posts that's why you don't respond to them when they are addressed to you. This is very ignorant & un-Scoutlike which for you is normal behavior. Your true colors shine as always." So I can't win either way I suppose. I get criticized for my hopefully helpful responses, I get criticized if I defend myself against personal attacks. I now I get criticized if I ignore them. It was a good try Terry, and one I'm sure was done with the best of intentions. Neither you nor I expected such a rabid response. I cannot imagine living a life where I could get angry at someone because they won't listen to me insult them. In the future please try to create more scout-like features for your website. Thanks for trying, Bob White (This message has been edited by Bob White)

"A scout who attends three campouts should have the same opportunities to advance as one who attends 10. He did have the same opportunities. he just chose to to make use of them. You job is to make sur that a scout who participates has the opportunity to learn practice and apply the skills need to complete the requirements for tenderfoot to First Class within the first 12 to 14 months. But the scout has to make the effort to participate, doesn't he? There are other ways that you can help make advancement opportunities available to a scout who misses a campout and wants to advance. Remember, it's The program's job to make a feast avalable, but you cannot force the scout to eat. Bob White

Hi flyingmember, Congratulations on what sounds like a successful first year. I will give a brief answer to your questions, Please post or private message any follow up questions you might have. Of your 4 questions, only one has a direct answer in the official resources and training of the BSA. The other answers will vary by leader, based on personal style. 1. Separate. The perpose of the New Scout patrol is to transition from Cuscout methods to Boy Scout methods. There is a lot of basic stuff to learn that the older guys do not want to relive. And the things the older guys are doing the New Scouts need to be prepared for first. So keep them separate for the most part. 2. Go camping anyway. All time spent with the scouts is important. I am not really sure what you are asking here? 3. There is no right number. Do not measure a summer camp by thew number of merit badges. Measure a good camp by enjoyment of the scouts, the width of their smiles, the sound of their laughter, and the number of scouts who are sad to leave. 4. Follow the rules, play nice with others, do stuff that interests you, have fun scouting. Hope this helps. Bob White(This message has been edited by Bob White)