Bob White

Thank you OneHour, I am glad you realize no harm was meant. I hope your son enjoys the trail to OA membership CubsRgr8.

Have pre-printed ballots and only give a scout one ballot as he checks in his car. Then as each ballot is returned check the scouts name off on the registration list.

Who is offended? Here's the thing as a troop leader my job is to deliver the best boy scout program I can to the most scouts I can. If I were a Venture leader I would deliver the best Venture program I could to the most youth I could. If a Scout in the troop I served was not getting enough adventure, activity and and leadership opportunity from the troop program, and wanted to join a Venture Crew then more power to him and shame on me for not doing my job. The Venture program is not an extension of troop scouting it is another program, another charter. It was designed to bring youth who did not find what they needed in troop scouting into the program by means of a repackaging. Optional uniform, optional advancement, coed membership, older membership, fewer adults. But there is no program activity, leadership opportunity, or socialization offered in Venturing that is not available through a troop's Venture Patrol program. If I can keep a scout interested in troop scouting until he is 18 why on earth would I encourage him to join another unit? Boy Scouting does not rely on Pack memebrship until AFTER the boy is finished with cubbing. Venturing should not be relying on Boy Scout members until after the boy has finished with the troop. Venturing was not designed to be used primarily as a dual activity for Boy Scouts. It has become that for two reasons. 1) Too many troops do not deliver on the promise of scouting adventure within their troop and so the boys seek it out elsewhere. 2) Too many Venture Crew organizers made it a practice of bleeding troop membership to start crews rather than getting out into the community and getting new members into the scouting program. Now I realize that this was not true in every case but it is too often true. When a new scout joins the troop I presume he is here until he turns 18. I fhe has to look elsewhere for adventure and personal growth then we are not doing our job. So far so good.

1) Don't worry you wouldn't be the first 2) My point exactly 3) That's true "The SM did not say to him, "OK, let's sit down and have a conference now while you're here." It seems to me you're saying that's exactly what he should have done." Correct!

Wow! This has to be one of the few places on earth where the only thing worse than being right is being accurate. I would hope that CubsRgr8 is proud of his son regardless of what I or anyone else posts, so dont be quick to assume I burst his balloon or anything else. I was trying to help him understand the process and clarify what seems to be his impression that his son is as he wrote elected by his peers to the Order of the Arrow. It would be like Kerrys dad (I have no idea if he is around so please dont write me about his dad) being excited that his son is now President of the United States. He isnt yet, he still has the calling out by his party at their convention, the ordeal of the election and his installation at the inaugural ceremony before he can say that. The same holds true for the OA . At this point CubsRgr8s son has won a primary. He has an excellent chance to be a member but lots of scouts who are nominated never become members. CubsRgr8 said his knowledge was limited I was simply trying to help him understand the process. Congratulations to his son on his nomination.

What specific activity can a Venturing Crew offer that a Venture Patrol can't? I am not aware of a single one.

"I am not sure what we did right but I can tell you we have had fun. We meet weekly." That's what yo did right. Good Job!

But Barry a Venture patrol can do the very same thing. Venturing was designed to bring more youth into the program not to just give scouts two uniforms. It's a great program and it has it's place, but it shouldn't be used in place of a good troop program for boys already in scouting.

Slow down proud papa, he is not an OA member yet, he the troop has selected for candidacy only. He still needs to participate in the calling out ceremony, the ordeal, and then the induction, at which point he will be an Ordeal member. He should get his OA handbok at that time.

We have older scouts who are instructors and work at all three levels of the troop. The best way to get to this is by having a SM who understands the program and have a team of ASMs that work well together. I see no advantage to dual registering Boys Scouts into Venturing. Venturing is a separate program, separate unit. Would you intentionally talk a Boy Scout into dual registering into another troop? There is no difference. If I had I scout who I thought was not getting what he needed out of the troop, only then would I suggest he try another feature of the Program. If a Crew has a real program of its own it should not need to rely on dual resgisters from troops for its core memberships. The G2SS is for the entire BSA program and all program levels, it is not discarded simply because you are a Venturer.(This message has been edited by Bob White)

Actually if you compare todays wages to yesteryear's you will discover most things including scout uniforms have dropped in price. Keep in maind that more people camp today than in "the good old days" there is only a certain amount of fallen limbs to go araound and mother earth and her inhabitants need them more than your fire lay. Other than that the cooking is the same, My fried eggs taste just as good no matter what heat resource I use, and I cook them just the way I did as a scout back in the "good old days" Wearing a uniform as a couple of times, and wearing it a couple times a week for a few years, is a big difference. The uniform changes a little ecery few years, be patient and they will change again. No matter what they do to it a few hundred thousand people will like it and few hundred thousand people will not. I agree there is some neat old stuff that would be fun to have in a personal museum, but as far as being better suited than today's materials for use in the field? Not a chance. As far as terrible ideas..few were scoutings design. They were common accepted practices used by scouting as well as everyone else Butter on burns Artificial Respiration Torniquets Slicing snake bites and sucking venom by mouth Trenching tents Bon-fires

"Use the Committee Guide Book as to how checks are signed by theCommittee chair & Treasurer. Actually that is not what the book says. It recommends that the two signatures required should be the Scoutmaster and the Troop Finance Chair. page 23

Grinning ear to ear VentureScoutNY, How can you long for "good old days" that you were not even alive for? No one who had one would rationaly consider a heavy mildewy canvas bag as benefit to lightweight camping when compared to todays products. A lot of the people who talk about the values of the OLD uniform never had to actually wear it. I still have a couple in my closet from when I was a scout and from ten years later when I was a new leader. Neither are any better or any worse than todays uniform. I have worn every uniform version since 1967 and the biggest change is the look. A 4 wall tent? how does one get in and out? "old methods of cooking. Back when scouts did not have stoves and propane" The methods of cooking haven't changed a bit. Only the fuel used to create the heat has changed. When it comes to camping equipment I cannot think of a single item that has not been greatly improved by current technology. Products are lighter, healthier, better performing, easier to maintain, and for the most part cheaper than the "good old days". The only time travel the human race is capable of is into the future, at a rate of one-minute every 60-seconds.

paankadu, Let's do this in stages. How many families are in the troop. How many dens are in the pack?

Had a great meeting tonight with the two new assistant scoutmasters for New Scout Patrols. My responsibilities are changing with the continued growth of the troop. So we reviewed the purpose and function of the New Scout Patrol and gave them all the resources they need to start their program planning. The troop has grown large enough and with a wide enough age range that we have gone to three distinct programs during each Troop Meeting. Everyone meets in one room for the Opening Ceremony, then splits into 3 separate areas for program. The New Scout Patrols (NSP)are working on Tenderfoot to First Class level skills. Each NSP has an assigned Assistant Scoutmaster, and a Troop Guide that joins their Patrol as a co-leader with the monthly Patrol Leader. Another ASM and I are responsible for supporting the two Regular Patrols. They work on more advanced skills and exposure to merit badge opportunities. We will keep this group for two years. The two patrols of our oldest most experienced scouts go to the Venture Patrol program supported by the SM and another ASM. Their focus is High Adventure skills and activities. Each program area meets separately for patrol meetings, games and skills presentation, and then regroups as a troop for recognitions, news, SM Minute and the closing. Should be a great year!

"How do you hold a parent back from moving along with his/her son??" Eamonn, We chose the Den Leaders, they did not choose us. It would be unfair to the boys and to the adult to let someone be a Den leader who did not have the tools or temperament to be successful. You do not have to let someone be a leader just because they want to. We selected the Den leaders from among the parents, based on who we determined would most likely succeed at it. Every parent still gets to move along with their scout, some do it as den leaders some don't.

You overcome fear with information, comfort, and consideration. The number reason for not having the leadrs you need is improper recruitment. There is a right and wrong way to do just about anything and finding the needed leadership in a scout unit is no exception. If you needed a new elementary school teacher for your child, would you gather a graoup of people from varios walks of life, put them in a room and say "nobody leaves until you have picked someone to teach school"? Scouting is an educational system. You don't want just anybody to be the teacher, and you certainly don't want a bunch of people who don't know the program to pick the teacher. Read and follow the instructions in the "Selecting and Recruiting Adult Leaders" brochure, available free from your scout service center. Follow every step. A few extra tips, Don't go in with a scowl and talk about the need for help. Don't give people the impression that things with the unit are bad. Folks will stand by and watch a train wreck, they won't volunteer to jump on-board. Have fun, let people know you feel guilty that they are not playing with you in the scouting game. Give people the tools they need to be successful. Have a Pack Trainer and get a new leader through Fast Start, NLE and Leader Specific in the first 60-days or sooner. Once you got em, keep em. Give leaders constant reinforcement and annual recognition.

I recommend that out of every Tiger Den you select and recruit three volunteers. Two to co-lead the den through cub scoutiing, and one to sign on for a one year term as a Tiger Den Leader to oversee for the next incoming brood of Tigers.

Eagle69 is correct. The scout can finish a merit badge under the requirements he started with, or switch to the new requirements and begin again. the counselor can accept previously approved work if the specifc requirement is the same in the old and new version. The only requirements that count of course, are ones in a published Merit Badge book. On-line information amy seem handy but it is not official. The Scout or the Counselor must have a BSA publication with the set of requirements that the scout is using.

Mark, You cannot use the merit badge program as an example to support your opinion, it actually supports what I am trying to share. The instructions for obtaining a merit badge specifically state that the Scout must contact the counselor. NO such stipulation is made for the scoutmaster conference or for boards of review. If it were a requirement, it would have to be stated as such in the Boy Scout Handbook and it is not. To make it a stipulation with the unit is adding to the requirement and that is not allowed in the policies of the BSA advancement program. rlculver: You are confusing counseling with a SM conference. Counselings goal is to effect a change in a person. The SM conference is to gather information and better understand the scout. The SM is the one who benefits from the conference. It gives him/her additional information about the character, needs, and growth of the scout. If I need information from you, I don't wait and hope you will call me, it is my responsibility to meet with you. The SM conference is no different, since it is the SM who needs the info, it is the SM's responsibility to make the vist happen. As I said, my copy of the Advancement Policies manual is with one of my trainers. I expect it back soon and will post the related sections. In the mean time continue to consider the question...If you are there to serve the scouts, then why are you making artificial requirements for them to come get you? Why not go to them? Bob White

I have always worked in the private sector. Because of my wife's work we have lived in a few councils and I have had a few different employers over the years. Every one of them gladly gave me time allowances to work with the scouts. One gave me a week off with pay to attend Wood Badge, others let me leave early on campout weekends or for special scouting events. I have gone to Philmont without it counting against my vacation time. In one community where 5 of us in one location were active scouters, the employer (not one of the 5) bought a table at the Council recognition dinner and had us go, as well as a table at the United Way recognition and at an FOS banquet. Now I admit not every employer is as supportive, but then alot depends on the employee too.

There is "going by the book" and there is "being a program leader". IF you use the methods, resources and program of the book to achieve the goals of scouting that's fine. After all the books say that scouting is fun. So Scouting is designed to be able to follow the rules and methods, and for the adults and the scouts to have a lot of fun while doing it. But if your focus is on the the content of the books rather than USING the contents of the books you cannot have fun, the scouts cannot have fun, and you cannot fulfill the mission of scouting. The reason to know the contents of the scouting resources is to better do your job as a leader NOT to make scouts toe the line.

My guess is that a display of tents from over 90-years would take up too much space. I seem to recall a then and now of back packs being there. I have been to the museum twice, and when the computer driven stuff is working its a pretty interesting place for scouts. I too liked the rockwell exhibit.

Marc, Changing advancement requirements in violation of the BSA policies doesn't bother some people. I am hopeful it bothers you. Bob White

Not everyone on a project gets to be the leader. Success also takes laborers, and that takes skill to do as well. Just because it takes skills other than those of leadership does not minimize the value of the work.