Bob White

Here is what that particular quote tells me. first that the committee is not the owner of the assets, but is given custodial responsibilities of it by the CO and the Council. It tells me that, because it recognizes the CO and Council as "supervisers" over the committee. Why should they be the supervisors? By contract. The unit only exists as an activity of the CO whose Institution Head signs an annual contract with the BSA. The members of the committee and unit leaders are also shared members of the CO and the Council. They also agree as a condition of membership to follow the programs methods and policies of the BSA. This would make the unit and its members answerable to the two parent organizations. To expand based on experience and knowledge of the program and as found in various resources of the BSA such as trsining syllabii, charter kits and program handbooks..... The Co is in many ways a franchisee of the BSA which is represented by the council as a local licensor. The unit leaders are in a way the employees of the franchisee who agree to the conditions of the franchising company as a condition of employment. It would be unreasonable to assume that in the case of the employees leaving the company, whether individually or in group, that they would be entitled to the assets or properties of the owners or franchisee. The fact that these assets were gained during their employment does not give them the rights of ownership.(This message has been edited by Bob White)

"Are you implying that supervision of the custodian equals ownership of the assets?" "I did not say you were implying anything, I merely asked whether you were implying something. I withdraw my question...you're a lawyer. If you really believe I may have omitted any text perhaps you should actually read it from the source. I gave you the book and the page number. It seems odd that a lawyer would render an opinin without researching any facts. You want me to find you the resources? Don't you do research before you determine if there is a case? By now you know the resources of scouting. Which ones did you read before making your decision on this topic?(This message has been edited by Bob White)

Makes you kinda feel like Mel Gibson doesn't it Eamonn? They way some people criticized his movie before they ever saw it. Only we have scouters who know little to nothing of Wood Badge for the 21st Century, telling others what it is or isn't. They haven't been involved in the new syllabus in any way and yet they feel compelled to tell others about its imagined shortcomings, regardless of their lack of facts or knowledge. I hope that the leaders who have taken WB in its previous forms would agree that continued leadership development benfits everyone in scouting and would let the participants themselves evaluate the course when they actually experience it. Often told inaccuracies- No Patrol Method...WB is filled with Patrol method. No tradition...All the traditions and ceremony of WB remains along with some new ones added. You need to be in scouting awhile to benefit from WB.....Any registered volunteer or professional age 21 and over who has completed their basic training can attend and will benefit. WB is just for Troop Leaders.....Wood Badge is for everyone regardless of program affiliation or service level. All the outdoor skills are gone...Most of the outdoor skills were moved to the Introduction to Outdoor Skills and the Webelos Leader Outdoor Training courses as well as some supplemtal courses, where they are aimed at the leadership positions that need them. This allows Wood Badge to focus on leadership development for all programs and positions, BUT there is still a lot of outdoor skills. Tickets are hard what should I do....Tickets are different but they are not hard. They are explained early on in the training and you have lots of time and guidance DURING the course to wite them. A ticket is an action plan based on personal goals you will develop DURING the course. Others cannot give you your ticket items anymore than they can tell you what your favorite color should be. It has to come from you. Wait until you take the course Wood Badge is fun, effective and for everyone. Sign up today for Wood Badge trainng.

Eamonn explained the course very well. Yes, our course director is following the syllabus plan from what I can tell. we have 20 participants signed up and I know of two more from my son's troop that will be going. We need the minimum of 30 by July and I do not see a problem getting there. I agree Eamonn, while I think it is important to have a regular flow of new trainers joining the team, I also think it is important to present the best possible course with the talent that is in your council. Have served in a course where there were three past course directors I can see the need to control their managerial input while still making use of their presentation skills. It's the 'too many cooks spoil the broth' sort of thing. Bob

OOPS bad typing, here is my do over... From around the early 70s to 1998 the majority of Exploring was Career Exploring, Law Enforcement Exploring and Sea Scouts and it was co-ed. Which was traditional? Prior to the early 70s Exploring was high adventure and Sea Scouts and only for boys. Is that traditional Exploring? Before that it was Sea Scouts, Air Scouts and High Adventure but only for boys. Was that traditional? What element of traditional scouting do you think today's scouts would need in order to have more fun or gain more skills?

NJ are you honestly a lawyer? If you read my post you had to have noticed that I did not "imply" anything. I simply quoted a passage from a BSA resource that pertained to the topic. How do get that I implied anything from that? By th way does the CO and the council "basically" co-own everything? Yes.(This message has been edited by Bob White)

cover the box inside and out lowers the kindling temperature of the box xausing it to burn sooner. Also you do not need to worry about whether the foil is shiny side out or not. That has nothing to do with the cooking properties or heat reflection of foil. This is straight from the mouth of a Reynolds Aluminum co. consumer education rep that did a cooking session for us at scout leader training.(This message has been edited by Bob White)

From around the early 70s to 1998 the majotiy of exporing was Career Exploring, Law enforcent Exploring and Sea Scouts and co-ed. Which was traditional? Prior to the early 70s Exploring was was high adventure and Sea Scouts and only for boys. Is that traditional Exploring? Before that it was Sea Scouts, Air Scouts and High Adventure but only for boys. Was that traditional? What element of traditional scouting do you think today's scouts would need in order to have more fun or gain more skills?

pdunbar, my point was simply to share a quote from the cub handbook that related to the conversation.

No one training course will make you a good leader. The BSA recognizes that and sees training as an ongoing process. Because of that, a conscientious volunteer will approach leadership development as a regular part of their self development just as they teach the scouts. In response to this need the BSA combines classroom learning with on the job application, evaluations, mentoring resources, and resource sharing among leaders. Wood Badge is an excellent course which gives a leader an abundance of effective leadership tools and an organized implementation plan. But it is not the final training chapter. Once a leader has completed basic training in the position of responsibility and Wood Badge, there are a number of other supplementary course available to them to "sharpen the saw". One of the most effective I think is participation in District/council/regional and national events where you get a chance to observe and evaluate the styles and scout method implementation used by other leader. This gives you a real chance to see first hand what works and what doesn't as well as see the kind of leadership you want to exhibit and the kind you want to avoid. By all means attend Wood Badge. I have only met three scouters who say they didn't get anything positive from their Wood Badge experience and all three said going in that they knew it would be a waste of time. The rule of GIGO. Bob White

I saw a patrol once use the blank patch and kept it blank, they were the Ghost patrol. Nothing says the medallion must be embroidered.

True it is discrimination but not all discrimination is bad. discrimination just means choice. Any time you make a choice based on differences you discriminate. If you say you have time to coach one baseball team but not all of them, that is discriminating. But you don't think ill of people that make a choice like that do you? If a counselor says I have time to work with the number of scouts in one unit but not in all of them, that to as you said is disrcimination, but why can't a person look at their own abilities and time resources and make that decision? What are your options? You can't force him or her to work with everyone. (This message has been edited by Bob White)

But which sect specifically TJ? If, as you continue to say, the BSA is sectarian in its training, which sect does the BSA train members in? I've read all the handbooks, taken all the training except national camp school and Ok-Pik. I have lead most every training course, and I have never seen, read or heard of the BSA promoting a particular sect. So if you are sure that they do, then you should be able to site which one, and where. I look forward to your specific reply.

Boy Scouting was a natural step from Cub Scouts because your Cub Scouting tenure ended. That was and is not the case with Exploring or Venturing. They are and were alternate or additional program choices. Venturing does not become a "natural" progression until the Boy Scout reaches 18 and his youth membership ends just as it did in Cub Scouts before he joined the troop. Yes, there are Venturers on staff at the next Jambo (just as there were at the last one), but they are not eligible as participants in 2005.

From page 11-4 of te Cub Scout Leader Book under the subheading Ownership of Assets " The unit committee is the custodian of all unit funds, with the supervision and advisement of the chartered organization and the local council."

The expense and income columns will vary from unit to unit depending on specifc program, goals, money earning activities, and expenditures. A basic budget plan can be found in the Cub Scout Leader handbook page 11-3.

Hi Owl, I'm fine thanks. The link says that is the two strand knot. The single strand is the called the Turks Head and is often used as a neckerchief slide. Good luck tracking the knots scouting origin. It is a sailors knot and there have been sailors in scouting for quite some time. My WB lanyard was tied by my coach/counselor into such a knot 24 years ago.

Define "traditional" Exploring? Any scout young enough to be a venturer today would have know exoloring either by Law enforcement, emergency services or perhaps career exploring, is one of them the traditional one you speak of? As far as a program guide, the Venturing Leaders Handbook is largely devoted to that, isn't it? Aong with Venturing Roundtables and Venturing information in Scouting magazine not to mention the specific Venturing books. Are there realy not enough to able to lead a quality program???

And in just which sect NJ do you claim the BSA trains its members.

Owl buddy you feelin OK? You posted almost this same thing a month ago to the day and you were given a link to a site that shows how to tie the knot.

I agree pdunbar, and your point being what? And why tell me? I never said his troop was disorganized.

The BSA has not refused any youth or adult membership regardless of their religious belief as long as they met the same membership criteria required of every member. Fear mongering is one way that some people who oppose the BSA's policies use to muddle the issue, when facts do not serve their cause.

Pdunbar The question was asked of what BSA policies say about personal accounts and I replied that personal accounts are not covered by BSA policies since they are not a part of the official BSA program. I never said they did not exist. Just that they are not a method or design of the BSA program.

Hi eagle54, Scout units can be formed anywhere there are boys to join. The only "trick" to recuiting leaders is to do it correctly. Regardless of where the unit is or the population it serves the qulity and character of the key adult leaders will determine its success. there is a terrific tool for this called Selecting quality leaders and it is available from your local scout service center. Read and follow the simple step-by- step process and you will find the people you need to make scouting happen. Best of Luck Bob White

pdunbar Since I do not have my copy of the Advancement Policies at this time I called the person I lent that to and found I was in wrong on a portion of what I shared. Advancement options are available as was stated and they do require a doctors verification as was stated, and the conditions of the merit badge requirements must be met (no more and no less), as was stated. And the exceptions are handled on a case by case situation as was stated. Where I was mistaken was that requirements within the badge could be altered. What happens is an alternate merit badge is approved by the national advancement committee. The conditions for this are outlined in the Advancement Committee Policies and Procedures manual. By case by case I mean that if national approves an alternate MB for one scout does not mean you can assume that the same decision will be made for another. I am unsure what reply you want me to comment on. if it was one from FOG please remember that I, as well as some other posters, do not read his posts. I will be happy to reply to any questions you want to ask me however.