Bob White

The key to leadership is to help those you lead to succeed. Perhaps rather than tell others what to do you should be looking for ways to help them to make the most of their scouting experience and meet their goals? The real leader is the one who serves others.

You may want to check the syllabus once again, the instructions are in there. You do have the syllabus, right?

"It is sad that our society has become so polarized that events like these occur on a routine basis." Is this really a new phenomena? Is it something that society has "become" or something that has always existed in societies? I doubt that much evidence can be gather to support the argument that polarization is a new characteristic in our world or our current society. Remember the 60s? Gun Control? How about the War between the States? Torries and Whigs? The French Revolution? Less Filling-Tastes Great? Regular or Decaf? Boxers or briefs? Draw a line almost anywhere and some people will mant to step on one side while some step to the other. Polarization is not new to our culture or anyone elses, at any time in history.

Sorry CW I meant Artificial Resuscitation, where you pushed on the victims back and pulled up on their elbows. Bonfires are a safety hazard, they waste resources, they are inefficient. Both are like a train wrecks, fun to watch but they don't do any good.

Again Bill, along with requirement #1 for Star and Life comes requirement #5 where he must actively serve in a leadership position. The Scoutmaster Conference and the the Introduction to Leadership Conference allows you the opportunity to reach an agreement with the scout of just what active for him will mean. Where do you see a problem arising if you and the scout have agreed in advance what he needs to do?(This message has been edited by Bob White)

BillR, Looking at the requirements for 1st Class, how do you see him reaching his next rank and not be active in scouting activities?

I am chairing a council-wide university of Scouting this Fall. I would be intersted in suggestions outside of the standard training courses that you think would help improve scouting in packs troops or crews. Here is a short list of some sessions we are considering. > Blue and Gold program ideas > Webelos Retention > Webelos to Scout transition > Maximizing Popcorn Sales > Selecting and Recruiting Volunteers > First Class Emphasis > Problem Solving for Commissioners > Roundtable Highlights > Pack Meeting Sparklers > Program Planning > Den Chief Training > Unit Budget Plans > Places to go things to do for Troops > Places to go things to do for Packs > Places to go things to do for Crews > Organizing and maintaining patrols > Role of the pack and troop trainers > Volunteer Recognitions > The role of professional scouting I would be interested in your additions BW

My pleasure Mrs. Smith BW

I could agree with Twocubs assessment if it were not for the fact that lack of adult participation is so often a continual problem in so many units. As a commissioner, lack of adult volunteers at the unit level was the most common problem in three districts that I served in. As a trainer the most frequently mentioned challenge during Pack Committee and Cubmaster training is adult recruitment. At Troop Committee Challenge training the most frequently asked question is "how do we get more parents involved". Scouting draws from all walks of life for its volunteer force. Most people are not in a management or supervisory positions in their professional life, and so naturally the majority of volunteers are not either. Though selecting and recruiting might seem a common skill to some, most people have never been in a personal or professional situation where they needed to do it. Scouting needs an abundance of volunteers to deliver the program in a quality manner. Because it is such a common challenge and since few volunteers are experienced in it, the need for a clear effective method seems obvious. The BSA has developed a process to fill that need. Knowing how to select a recruit quality leadership is often the difference between delivering a "good" scout program, or the "best" scout program available. And to a scout that can be a huge difference. Can you do it your own way? Sure you can. But if your way isn't working isn't it nice to know that there is a remedy available for you to use? (This message has been edited by Bob White)

OOPS sorry the spell checker works but now I guess I need Grammar check. I wrote "Even if the BSA altered its standards in a my way I would continue to support them for as long as I choose (or was allowed) to remain a member. " That should have been... Even if the BSA altered its standards in any way I would continue to support them for as long as I choose (or was allowed) to remain a member. BW (This message has been edited by Bob White)

OOPS sorry the spell checker works but now I guess I need Grammar check. I wrote "Even if the BSA altered its standards in a my way I would continue to support them for as long as I choose (or was allowed) to remain a member. " That should have been... Even if the BSA altered its standards in (any way I would continue to support them for as long as I choose (or was allowed) to remain a member. BW

BillR Along with requirement 1 in Star, Life and Eagle are Star and Life requirements #5, and Eagle requirement #4. The Scout Handbook defines active as participation in troop and patrol activities. It is left purposefully vague so that each scouts activity can be based on his individual situation. If you are the Scoutmaster, have you had a conversation with the scout and agreed upon what will be needed to complete requirement 1 of his next rank? The requirement to actively serving a leadership position is again based on the needs of the specific position and the goals set between the scout and the scout leader who presided over his introduction to leadership conference when he was elected or selected to hold office. What position has he been elected or selected to? Who conducted his Introduction to Leadership Conference? What were the goals that were set and agreed to? If the scout fulfills the goals set during these discussions during the allotted time period then he has met the requirement. If he does not work toward or meet those goals then he has not met the requirement. Either way if the program is followed, it is the scout who sets his own goals and has the responsibility to work toward and achieve them.(This message has been edited by Bob White)

Acco40 Just a reminder that I had nothing to do with setting the membership policies of the BSA. That is done by a board of volunteer representatives of chartering organizations a scout councils from across the country. As the representatives of their scouting communities they have always been the administrative bodies that have set the standards of the BSA. As a volunteer member I would find it incredibly hypocritical to belong to an organizations whose values I resented as reflected in some of the posts I have read in this thread and others. Membership in the BSA is not mandatory nor is it an individuals right. Why on earth would someone join or remain if you found the values or actions of the program repugnant in any way? Why would anyone expect that their participation in a private organization is protected in any way? I have no problem acknowledging my membership in the BSA and my acceptance of its values. I am comfortable explaining my participation to anyone even those who disagree with their long standing membership expectations. Even if the BSA altered its standards in a my way I would continue to support them for as long as I choose (or was allowed) to remain a member. If that is riding a moral high horse then all I can say is "Giddy-yup".

We make a real effort during Roundtables, district events and during training programs to let unit leaders know how much their participation means. I think the key is in individual personalized recognition. Just as standing in front of a group and saying "we need somebody to do this job" is an ineffective way to select and recruit, to tell a group of volunteers " Thanks so much for your work" is an ineffective way to recognize people's efforts. You have to tell the individual that they are appreciated and you have to be specific. "Sally thanks for your work as a cubmaster, the way you keep your den leaders motivated and having fun is incredible, and its obvious that the cubs are having fun and advancing." It only takes a few seconds to tell someone what specifically they do to make this a better program, but the effects can last for months. To often peoploe get the generic, "hey nice job thanks for coming" and it lacks the impact of a personal, specific compliment.

Why should we forget the Oath, Law, Pledge or any other part of today's scouting? At what point did anything I wrote suggest that? But why would a leader today need to know the indian story of Akela to be a good Cub Scout Leader, or Artificial Respiration to be a good troop leader, or the old requirements of the Ranger Award to be a Venturing Adviser. To be a good leader today you need to know and follow today's program. If you want to collect scout memorabilia then you need to know about old handbooks. No one is saying to scrap todays program, on the contrary it would be nice to see today's leaders embrace it, follow it and excel at it. That requires knowing today's youth, and today's methods, not those of decades ago.

Pdunbar, It seems doubtful unless the Girls Scout program collapses. The BSA initiated a proposed merger of the two programs a few years back into one organization called Scouting of America (or something similar to that). The discussions between the two organizations were eventually ended by the Girl Scouts. I was told that they were concerned that the overwhelmingly larger membership of the BSA would overpower the heritage and contributions of the Girl Scout movement and so they chose to remain independent. The BSA has refrained from extending the co-ed program beyond Venturing out of respect for the Girl Scout program. As long as the GSUSA exists it is unlikely the BSA will ever be co-ed beyond Venturing.

PLs; one 16, one 15, one 14, one 12, two 10 1/2 SPL; is 15 Four instructors two are 16, two are 17, Two JASMs are 17.

Hi Mrs. Smith You are to be commended for wanting to understand your son's program and for wanting it to be done according to the scouting methods. I would like to address three issues you bring up. Parent orientation, the need for rules, and proper leadership. First, I agree that parents need and deserve a orientation into Boy Scouting. In fact the program recommends this be done as part of a troops relationship with a pack while the families are in the Webelos program. It is a good idea to repeat it during the first month of the boy's membership in the troop. Explaining things like the troop budget, introducing leadership, discussing youth and parent responsibilities, annual program elements, uniforming and other topics can greatly enhance the scout's and the parent's comfort and participation in scouting. As far as rules and by-laws, I think every one agrees they are need. Where some of the posters differ is whether rules and by-laws in addition to the ones provided by the BSA program are need or not. There are some of us like Eamonn and me who feel that the best rule is KISMIF, Keep It Simple Make It Fun, is a good guide for delivering a quality scouting program. Too many scouters manufacturer too many artificial rules by which to run the program. Often these rules are made by untrained groups or individuals who knowingly or by accident create rules in direct opposition to those of the BSA. Since the BSA policies and procedures over-rule those of the local unit this becomes a waste of time and energy for everyone. Other times the rules are duplicates of those already in place and available through the resources of the BSA, again a waste of time for the unit. Finally these artificial rules are often an attempt by an individual or group within the unit to exert their will and designs over others. It's ego-tripping at its best and does not belong in the program. The BSA has been at this for a long time and has become very familiar with what it takes to have a successful scouting program. If there is a rule needed to make that happen you can feel assured that the BSA has it already. As far as the SM and CC not following the program., that is indeed unfortunate. Even sadder is that they have ample opportunity to learn and practice the scouting program and have simply chosen not to. There are a number of training programs offered for volunteers and interested parents to explain scouting and to develop leaders capable of delivering the program to youth. But the adults have to make the effort to learn it and use it. If the unit were to put together a list of the scouting methods, rules and policies your SM and CC would probably not follow them, at least they haven't up to now and they have had the opportunity to do so. If they were allowed to make their own they would likely not follow the program since they haven't up to now. a poster in the past wisely said "if you can't get the leader to change.. then change leaders." If you do not think the current SM is going to adapt to the real scouting program then for your son's sake take him to a troop that does, or go to the Charter organization and share your concern with the head of the organization. Ask them to make a change of leadership for the sake of the boys. Bob White

pdunbar, If by "the BSA executives" you are referring to the professionals then you are terribly mistaken because they do not make the rules. Do you know who does? I am confident that no one in the BSA disagrees with your right to protest rules you do not like. Just understand that that your rights do not include maintaining your membership in the BSA if you protest publicly. You have a responsibility to make your protest through the prescribed methods and channels made available to you by the BSA or else the BSA has the right to end your membership. Do not confuse your right to protest with the BSA's right to free association.

Why, have the younger boys compete with the older boys to begin with? Perhaps that's why there is a morale problem? The idea of the patrol method is to have patrols of scouts who are of similar age and abilities. Then each patrol or type of patrol can have a program that fits their specific needs based on their age and stage. Having new scouts just learning knots competeing in a knot contest against experienced scouts will not prove anyting to either group will it? And is the purpose of the competition to be better than your fellow scouts, or to do the best job you can, and show improvement or capabilities within yourself and your patrol? What does the the B-P patrol award lack for you? (This message has been edited by Bob White)

I'm with Fscouter, the work is done for you already in the form of the Baden-Powell award. If you have three patrols and all three are getting the job done why must one be judged better over another? Instead recognize all the patrols who meet the criteria already in your handbook.

Mrs. Smith The purpose of the Scoutmaster Conference is for the Scoutmaster to learn more about the needs and characteristics of the individual scouts in the troop. This allows the Scoutmaster to make sure each scout is getting the program elements, resouces amd opportunities he needs to reach achieve scoutings mission based on the individual scout. The Scoutmaster also makes sure that a scout has completed all requiremnets for his next step in advancement, and helps the scout to set goals for further advancement. The Board of Review is made of a minimum of three registered committee members and a maximum of 6 registered committee members. Their job is to insure that the scout did the work tasks of advancement as they are stated in the advancement requirements, to learn how the scout is growing through the use of the scouting program, and to evaluate the troop program and its leaders through a scouts viewpoint. The BOR can be held not only for scouts who are advancing, but also for scouts who are not. Both the scoutmaster sonference, and the board of review, are ways we evaluate a scouts personal growth. Does this answer your question?

Everytime I read a post from Dana I am reminded of a dog I once had who spend much of his time chasing his own tail.(This message has been edited by Bob White)

Everytime I read a post from Dana I am reminded of a dog I once had who spend much of his time chasing his own tail.(This message has been edited by Bob White)

Agian packsaddle, you are welcome to your opinion and the BSA is welcome to set their rules as they see fit for their program. What I find contemptable are members of the BSA who stay members while they bad mouth the very organization that serves them. If you come into my house and insult my choices in how I run my home... you know where the door is, use it. You have a right to your opinion but I have the right to show you to the curb. I like the BSA. I like the program, I like their values, I like the what it teaches and how it teaches. It's not for everyone, youth or adult. Why would anyone stay in an organization that it found cowardly or contemptible, unless you were utterly hypocritical?