Bob White

Does the BSA discriminate? Yes, they do, but then everyone discriminates. Anytime you make a choice you discriminate. The question is does the BSA discriminate illegally? No, they do not, according to the highest court in our land. The BSA does not illegally discriminate based on any of the categories you listed. But that doesn't mean that the business owner will agree.

I believe that Mrs. Smith's point is not to keep anyone from talking, but to remind others that you do not have to listen. She has made it clear in at least two posts that she would prefer decent content to personal attacks. This is not a Free Speech issue from what I read, it is a free association issue. You are free to say whatever you wish, and anyone may choose to ignore you. The fact that we can use technology to assist us is no sin. If some can use this technology to insult, lie about, or attack others then why can't I and others use the same technology to filter them out? I participate in this forum to discuss scouting, not to be a target for anyone, regardless of how little they like today's scouting or how badly they deliver it. So of the hundreds who join this forum I choose to ignore two. The squelch feayure merely makes it easier.

I agree Eamonn, but wouldn't you agree that it is done as a way to promote the course and motivate attendance. There is nothing in the syllabus I have that makes participation by "invitation only". In fact every WB promotion I have seen for the last two years has stressed that anyone who meets the prerequisites can attend.

A little clarification here is needed. EagleinKY's actions were in violation of the BSA policies as they are expressed in the Money Earning Application rules, there is no denying that. The methods they used to raise the funds could put the unit or the donating business in violation of tax laws, I was only warning him of those dangers which he did not seem aware of. I was indeed misrepresented in what I had said, in my posts, and I presented evidence of that. Had those misrepresentations been unintentional then the poster should have said so and apologized. That did not happen. I cannot help the fact that he was offended. The actions were his, I offered only the fact of the BSA rules, and evidence of his own postings compared to what I had actualy written. I did not make the BSA rules or the federal tax laws, or force anyone to misquote me. (This message has been edited by Bob White)

I know that an ACM can be 18 and is the only Cubbing position that anyone below 21 can hold. Never thought about a MB counselor attending Wood Badge as such. Never heard of it happening and I'm not sure if they are eligible since they are in a sort of gray area of BSA registration. Good question to ask at tomorrow's council training committee meeting.

Eagle54, I guess I just don't understand your questions. "what suggestion do you have challenging those working on these to come back with good records?" I am not sure it is the counselors role to "challenge" the scout is it? Aren't you expected to coach, counsel, inform, enthuse, define expectations, and test the scout (based on those expectations without requiring more than or less than the requirent as stated in the advancement). "What kind of depth do you require on questions" What information did you teach him? He is required to fulfill the requirement no more, no less. You can teach as much detail as you want. The Scout can go into as much detail as he chooses. You must approve the advancement if he met the standards set in the BSA requirement.

NeilUp, We will have to take a split decision on this one. While you are correct that an 18-year old can attend Wood Badge, they can only do so as an Assistant Scoutmaster or as an Assistant Cubmaster. Being 18 does not make you eligible for adult membership except in those two positions. All other adult leadership positions would require the individual to be 21 years of age or older. I would expect the 18-year old OA Chief would have to have been an ASM. But you are right the requirement says that you must be an adult member, not 21. Thanks for setting that straight.

Brent, as a method of recruitment, and promotion, personalized letters of invitation are sometimes sent to prospective attendees. However it is no longer an "invitation only" event as it once was. The philosphy of who should attend Wood Badge changed dramatically with the creation of Wood Badge for the 21st Century. It is now recommended that all scout leaders, from every phase of the program, attend within the first two years. The only prerequisites are that you be 21 years of age or older, a registered member of the BSA, and have completed the basic training requirements for the position you will be attending Wood Badge as. So don't wait for an invitation, go ahead and send an application in. Bob White

BrentAllen, You do not need an invitation to go to Wood Badge. That was the case once upon a time, but that is no longer the process. You simply register to attend. Your Council is probably already accepting registrations for this years course. Contact your local scout service center for details.

Congrats to Outdoor thinker. I look forward to great things coming from her region.

Congrats to Outdoor thinker. I look forward to great things coming from her region.

My question remains unanswered Owl. In the Troop program, at what event other than Courts of Honor are the parents present so that an FOS presentation can take place? For what it's worth, I was invited to speak at a troop Court of Honor tonight (not my son's troop), I did a 5-minute FOS presentation and we took another 5-minutes to collect the cards. The troop, with about 40 families present, pledged in excess of $2,800. That is not an amount that is raised by people who are "put-off" by a financial appeal at a Court of Honor. That is an amount raised by 40 families who have a commitment to the scouting community not just "their" unit. Pledges varied from $20 to $500. I really do not care how much a family chooses to give. Each has its own finacial needs and resources. All I ask is a few minutes of their time, once a year to hear my story. The decision is then theirs to give or not, and at what level. It is unfortunate that, for the goal of a strong scouting program, you would not give 10-minutes at one of four Courts of Honor in an entire year. Thankfully that is not an attitude shared by any of the troops in our District.

You are to be commended for addressing the issue with the Cubmaster first. Since he does not seem concerned, the next step I would suggest is the head of the charter organization.(This message has been edited by Bob White)

Welcome Phil. It is great to have a member of your program join us. If nothing else you can help keep Eamonn in check . Again, welcome to our side of the pond. Bob White

Go ASAP BrentAllen, it is a great tool for better scouting regardless of your current or future role in the program. The only thing you need to determine is what that role will be immediately following the course. Your goals that will need to be met in the 18-months folowing Wood Badge will be based on that position of responsibility and you have needed to completet the basic training for that position before you attend. Have a great time! Bob White(This message has been edited by Bob White)

You are absolutely right OGE, it is a matter of free association. Quite honestly except for missing out on the abhorrent behavior of couple of posters, it is very easy to understand the entire meaning and topic of the thread while using the squelch feature. Isn't that the purpose of squelch, to be able to concentrate on the scouting topics without the distraction of posts that too often attack people rather than subjects? I would would hope that we can use any forum feature that is made available to us. Ed complained when the squelch was first instituted because he was angry that I chose not to read his abusive messages. He wrote me that using the squelch feature was "ignorant and un-scout-like". It was just that sort of rubbish and personal attacks that caused Terry to create the squelch feature. If Ed doesn't want it to exist, then perhaps he and the other perpetrator of such behavior should have shown better judgment to begin with.

You aren't the first or only one who has squelched him Mrs. Smith. Each person can choose the poison they are willing to let into their lives. I agree that there are many different people around the fire, but a person is known by the company they keep, and to share the fire with anyone, inspite of their behavior, will only end up reflecting badly you. It leaves each of us with a choice. Share your company with anyone regardless of how it reflects on you, remove the offensive person, or remove yourself and only share the fire with those who do not damage your own reputation. Squelching him effectively rids him of your fire. I think it's a good choice. I squelched him as soon as the feature became available, and dispite that I understand his attacks continue. I am saddened by some of the posters who are not bothered by that. I am surprised by the number of posters who dispite their disagreement with this person's behavior are afraid to point to it and say that it is unacceptable.

Through the 70s scouts wore knee socks that were held up by garter straps hidden by folding over the top of the sock. A tassle hung from the garter visbile below the cuff of the sock. A yellow tassle was worn by Cub Scouts, a green tassle by Boy Scouts, and a red tassle by Explorers.

One method of scouting is Leadership Development, the goal of the method is to help scouts learn to make good decisions. Each method of Scouting is intended to be used with each scout, in order for each scout to to reach the goal. The Boy Scout Program is designed so that every scout in a unit can hold a position of responsibility. As long as every scout is given an opportunity to develop, which offices he holds is largely irrelevant. But if you want to keep a scout interested and involved you must give him new opportunities and new experiences, because that is the nature of boys. A good Scoutmaster will know and understand the needs and characteristics of each scout and will guide him on a track that will help him to move from one challenge to the next in order to help him develop to his fullest. The goal of scouting is not to have a smooth running troop, the goal is to develop the boys.

Well one thing that one would expect from the land down-under, home of the Kangaroo, is that the uniforms would have really big pockets.

So Owl, If you were to accept the need for Friends of Scouting, at what other troop function when parents are present would the presentation be able to be made? Also, as vital as volunteer time is to the BSA there are some things that cannot be obtained with volunteer hours, they require money. Could a scout unit survive with zero funds? Have you ever tried to pay for a campsite in volunteer hours, or a tent, or food? Do you think the post office will accept volunteer hours to purchase postage for your scouting mailers? Will the mower that clears your campsite operate on volunteer hours or will fuel actually have to be bought? The people that we as volunteers hire, to keep or records, care for our properties and grow the program for 8 to 15 hours each day be able to pay their bills and feed their families with volunteer hours? Your expectations for scouting to exist without funds is unreasonable. Your willingness to lump all non-profits together as misusing funds is unfair and uninformed. Your determination to not allow your opinion to be swayed by facts is unfortunate.(This message has been edited by Bob White)

Most District and Council Voulunteers I know come from one of two categories. Current unit leaders ro former unit leaders. they all share one trait. An understanding of the bigger picture. A realization that for scouting at the unit level to succeed, scouting in the community needs to succeed. And the understanding that scouting is a chain of ever widening communities. District and council volunteers come from knowing what job needs to be done, identifying the best person to do it, and asking them on a personal level to make a difference by being a BSA volunteer.

So what do you feel has been learned from the results?

Acco40 I do not know where these misconceptions come from. "Bob, maybe such postings go unchecked and unchallenged and by most because you do such a good job checking and challenging yourself the others get lazy." If you look back you will see that I have only responded to one of that posters missives since the 'squelch' feature has been added to the forum, which has been a number of weeks. Yet, I understand that my posts are riduculed by him on a nearly daily basis. And still you have the impression that there has been a two-way conversation taking place, when there has not. Look back at our posts for the past several weeks and you will see that this is true. I offered a leadership concept to help a poster resolve a problem. It was met with tasteless ridicule not because of the validity of the statement, but because of the poster's personal vindictiveness toward me. In doing so he allowed his hate to blind him to the the model on which this leadership concept is based. I then posted the origin of that concept, and I understand his 2nd reply was as insensitive and tastless as his first. I did not berate the poster he did that to himself. I only offered the reference as to where the servant/leadership concept can be traced back. It's unfortunate that others do not see, or are so willing to be bullied, by his sort of behavior. As far as that posters comment regarding Jesus as a "long dead person" It is my understanding that he is still alive. I guess that is just one of the many ways we differ.

I understand that my advice of servant leadership has caused a poster to vomit. What an unfortunate reaction to the teachings of Jesus Christ...(Luke 22:24-26) A dispute also started among them over which of them was to be regarded as the greatest.So Jesus said to them, The kings of the Gentiles lord it over them, and those in authority over them are called benefactors. Not so with you; instead the one who is greatest among you must become like the youngest, and the leader like the one who serves. It is unfortunate that a poster would show that kind of reaction. Even worse that someone would use the forum for their own person vendetta rather than for the purpose the forum was designed for, and that it goes unchecked and unchallenged by so many.