Bob White

There are hundreds of scout camps in the US. Do some offer Venturing summer camp weeks? Yes. Are others making plans to do them? Yes. Do they all allow units from outside their council to attend? Yes. It is done by showing the council that it is a financially responsible program offering for the council to support. Dana has taken the first step, to show an interest. Now he needs to show that there are enough others interested in his council or surrounding councils that would attend. Others have been able to do it, but that doesn't mean that every council or cluster has enough interest and membership to make it feasible. Please pardon me if in order to save time I only post this once.

I agree that mom should not be the deciding factor, but certainly the boy's wishes must be be given considerable weight. Patrols should be groups of friends. Who picked your friends for you when you were his age? To just assign him to group without considering who he wants to be with (and who wants him), is certainly a recipe for failure. Had the scout been given the opportunity to choose then mom would not have had the need or opportunity to insert herslf into the situation.

I agree that mom should not be the deciding factor, but certainly the boy's wishes must be be given considerable weight. Patrols should be groups of friends. Who picked your friends for you when you were his age? To just assign him to group without considering who he wants to be with (and who wants him), is certainly a recipe for failure. Had the scout been given the opportunity to choose then mom would not have had the need or opportunity to insert herslf into the situation.

What patrol or patrols do the two Scouts want to be in, and what patrol or patrols want them? Why not let the boys decide rather than the parent or the SPL deciding where they are going to go?

We follow a program called "the Ideal Year of Scouting". First you determine your program, then you calculate the cost of delivering the program, and finally you fundraise to meet those expenses. That way you are not caught by surprise and run out of funds before the end of the program year, or spend all your time fundraising and having a surplus of money but no time to spend it, or a plan on how to spend it. Training is just one program needs we calculate in at the beginning of the program year.

I had a pair official BSA stretch knit red swim trunks with a scout emblem embroidered on the right leg about the size of a half dollar. this was in the late 1960s.

Do you know of a scout camp whose programs are not open to scouts from other councils?

My son's troop pays $100 for each adult who attends WB and Scout that attents JLT.

Check your council's website. If they have YP on-line then yes. Each council has their own version of the national on-line program, so that local laws and contact information can be inserted.

Things like that are produced locally and would not commonly be found outside your council.be

The brochure on selecting troop leaders is available free and is publication #18-981 called Selecting Quality Leaders, there is one for packs and one for district volunteers as well.

Welcome Woodsmith. The Troop Committee Chair has several responsibilities, non of which are really related to direct youth contact. You can find a list and expaination of the CCs responsibilities in the Troop Committee Guide. My suggestion is to sit down with the CC and explain that in order for you to be an effective program leader that everyone will ned to focus on their specific role in the troop. Just as the CC should expect you to go through him or her when dealing with members of the committee, the CC needs to go through you when wanting to deal with situations or individuals in the troop. Clear and open communication is the best way to avoid, and to resolve, conflict. Good Luck, Bob White

I would think a flag that size is designed to be flown in accordance with the flag code.

Patrol Spirit can be a complicated thing. What makes some groups gel and others not depends on a lot of things. Why it doesn't work is in your group is hard to say without know a lot more detail. Here however are some tips on what can help it to take place in most cases. These are in no particular order. 1) Let the scouts choose their own patrol configurations based on friendships. It doesn't matter if one patrol has 8 scouts and one has 10 and one has 6 members. If each scout gets along with the majority of boys in his patrol that is more important. Kids need to be able to choose their own gangs. 2) Don't rearrange patrol memberships. Groups go through specifc phases before they become productive as a team. Conflict is an early phase and will pass, but every time you rearrange that group they will go through those forming processses again and productivity will once again be delayed. Form them right the first time and then keep them together. 3) Help them to form a unique identity. They don't have to just be the Wolves the can be the Vicious Wolf Patrol. encourage them to develop their own t-shirts, hats, neckerchief slides etc. 4) Develop their abilities to where they can have their own patrol events, hikes and campouts. (read the Boy Scout Handbook about patrol activities). 5) Use inter-patrol competitions in the troop meeting and on outings. Have some kind of recognition for the winners. 6) Make sure that Patrol Leaders run the patrols and not the adults or the SPL or other junior leaders. 7) Train the patrol leaders to have pride in their group and what they accomplish. Have him share that pride with the patrol members. 8) Make sure the scouts are at events because they want to be there not because you want them to. Learn how to get the junior leaders excited about scout activities so that they will make good scouting choices. There are some additional pointers in the Patrol Leaders handbook. I hope this helps, Bob White

Electing the Senior Patrol Leaders and Patrols Leaders is about more than just running the troop. It is about teaching scouts about the responsibility of being a citizen and the importance of electing good representatives to govern. Being the an adult scout leader is not about doing what is easiest but about delivering a multi-faceted program designed to develop young men. It is not about leading "your" program, but about leading the scouting program. Swearing by the "SM-appointment method" would be fine if such a method existed in scouting, but it does not and it never has. What is a part of scouting is the Patrol Method and the Leadership Development Method and they both require that the SPL and PLs be elected by the scouts. elected troop leadership is a cornerstone of the citizenship development offered in the BSA program. Leadership training is the responsibility of the Scoutmaster, and it begins BEFORE the election takes place and continues afterward. To blame poor leadership on the results of the election, rather than on the leadership development training by the adults is misdirected. Patcjohn is correct, what the Scoutmaster is doing is wrong and it is not the scouting program. My suggestion would be to share your concerns with the SM, and reference the proper method from the BSA resources. You will find that the Scoutmaster Handbook, Patrol Leaders Handbook, Senior Patrol Leaders Handbook, and the Scout Handbook, all state that the SPL and PL are elected by the scouts. Baden-Powell said that every boy deserves a trained leader. This is a good example why. The scouts in troops that do not follow the methods of scouting are being cheated out of the real scouting experience. The promise made to them in the Handbook is not being kept and they deserve better. Bob White

The Flag Code passed by Congress specifically says that the American Flag should not be carried horizontal to the ground. However It has been done that way at the Olympics many times. I can see how it is a very effective display if there is an audience with a view from overhead. It really is your call. You know that it will bother some people and technically appears to be incorrect. How necessary is it to your role in the parade?

For Mrs. Smith, a hardy handshake (left handed of course) for joining us in hopes of finding help and the scouting spirit. I know you did not find as much of either as you would have liked. Please continue to participate in the hopes that things will improve. Bob White

Just to show that I am not an unreasonable fellow I did a search of the last posts made by the originator of this thread, to see if his content has improved since I squelched him several weeks ago. Of the last 20 posts 30% were soley personal attacks or contained personal attacks. If this is the personal gift he is sharing I need none of it. I made the correct decision to squelch and will continue to do so.

PatBB FYI, The National BSA office does not make this decision, the Nation Council does. You cannot have a national program if every sub group can change the rules. Imagine the NFL if every team played the game differently. WOSM has no administrative authority over any national program. It will never expel the BSA because without the financial support of the BSA, WOSM would not exist.

As the Training Coordinator for this District my goal is 100% trained leaders. That means every leader attends the courses needed to attain the "Trained" leader level and have the prerequisites to attend Wood Badge (which by the way does not include Youth Protection, that is a supplementary training course). I do not see how more trained adults can do anything but provide a better scouting program for youth. I agree that every leader needs training and having taught all the basic courses now I see a big difference between Tiger, Cub, and Webelos training, as well as a major difference between Committee and Cubmaster. I am split on the issue of mandatory training. Although I want 100% of registered adults to get training I do not see it as being within the council's authority to mandate. I would like to see more Charter Organizations take that on since it is their unit, and their leaders, and their responsibility. I do not see any council having the luxury to enforce this rule. Their jobs depend on program growth. I believe saying that they will not recharter a unit is a hollow threat that will never be enforced. As I have posted before, I asked a national BSA director about this method and he said that 'national did not support or encourage councils to do this, but that councils have a degree of autonomy on this'. So perhaps national is withholding judgment until they see how this is received in the field.

How is this not a "public" site. It is no more dificult to access this forum as it is a Blog site. While I agree that Wood Badge is highly desirable, and I recommend and support that every one attend, it is possible to deliver scouting at many levels without it. A lot depends on the skills that the individual brings with them to the program. As far as what a Blog is... "A blog is basically a journal that is available on the web. The activity of updating a blog is "blogging" and someone who keeps a blog is a "blogger." Blogs are typically updated daily using software that allows people with little or no technical background to update and maintain the blog. Postings on a blog are almost always arranged in cronological order with the most recent additions featured most prominantly." www.matisse.net/files/glossary.html It would not seem to me to be the best tool for a discussion as it is designed to be a journal of events or experiences. A cyber diary of sorts.

Qualification has nothing to do with his authority or responsibility to make the decision. His qualifications are for the District Selection Committee to consider prior to his appointment. Once in the office it is his responsibility to the scouting community he leads to select good people, and to replace those who are not upholding their duties with people who will. One tool at his disposal is the annual charter renewal process.

The Balboa case is irrelevant to this conversation. The BSA is being challenged because it refuses to abandon its support and use of faith and moral conviction. Not because it discriminates against atheists. If you do not hold a religious belief then you have no religious creed, in which case you cannot be discriminated against for holding a different one. Having no creed is is not the same as having a different one. Atheists are not discriminated against for their choice in religious creed. They effectively are excluded from that decision because they have no religious creed. Atheists are discriminated against for the absence of a moral component that the BSA has determined is required for membership. So no, the BSA does not discriminate on based on religious creed.

If you are using the definition of creed as 'an authoritative formula or religious belief' then no, the BSA does not discriminate based on creed. What does "illegally discriminate" mean? I thought you defined it very well. To discriminate is to perceive differences between subjects or to base decisions on perceived differences. When you tell hot from cold you discriminate. When you choose the flavor of one soft drink over another you discriminate. Both are legal to do. When you make a hiring decision based on race you discriminate but the law has determined that to do so is illegal. When the BSA limits its membership to exclude atheists it is discrimination, but the law has determined it to be legal. (This message has been edited by Bob White)

I have seen it either on the jacket pocket or lapel.