Bob White

I hope what scoutldr is saying that there is no need to be on the hate list. The event is allowed and doable under the safety policies of the BSA, and that as long as you follow the policies of the BSA you do not have to fear losing your home of future income. The moment those scouts removed their PDFs the adult leaders present should have brought the activity to a complete and instant halt, untill all PDFs were back on each and every scout. Anyone not wishing to comply should not have been allowed back into the water.

The Council Scout Executive is responsible for investigating and acting on the matter. In order to protect both the accuser and the accused the SE will not discuss the matter beyond limits of confidentiality. Who you are was not told to the accused and what was said or done to the accused in this matter will likely not be discussed with you. These matters take time to investigate. You will likely need to be patient and allow the SE tme to do the work, this violation could lead to permanent revocation of membership and so it is not treated lightly.

I think you have a non-issue here One-Hour. I am not sure what you are drawing your conclusion on, but tubing on water is an approved activity for Webelos, Scouts and Venturing. Bob White

Eamonn is correct. All that is required is that the scout be in Webelos. It is not a group decision by the pack or den, it is up the the family.(This message has been edited by Bob White)

Neither qualify as Eagle Scout projects since they benefit scouting. Quoting from the Boy Scout Handbook.. "While a Life Scout, plan, develop, and give leadership to others in a service project helpful to any religious institution, any school, or your community." Bob White (This message has been edited by Bob White)

Eamonn and FScouter were both correct. Pack trainer is designed to allow a trained individual in each pack to A) promote leadership training B) encourage attendance in District and council Training events C) with proper training and approval from the district Training Chair, deliver basic training (New Leader Essentials, and Cub Job Specific Training) to all unit volunteers within the first 30 days. Youth protection requires that the presenter be approved by the SE. Many Councils require that the trainer have attended Trainer Development/BSA 500 in order to train. Hope this helps. Bob White

How do you figure that?? When a cub is a webelos and outgrows a blue uniform he can get a tan one next and wear it into Boy Scouts. By the Time a Boy Scout outgrows his 2nd, 3rd or 4th shirt he can go to exploring where they do not even need a uniform or can wear whatever they choose to call a uniform. How would one color cut the cost? Unless they can manufacture a one size fits all uniform that never wears out, kids will continue to grow out of one and need another.

Do not expect to see one uniform for all ages. Teens do not want to dress like 9 year-olds and 18 year olds do not want to dress like 12 year olds.

I do not know that I can solve your problem but I might be able to ease your frustration. First, when they take these trips, whose equipment do they use? If they use the troop's who is providing the permission to use the equipment and who is providing the access. Secondly, I need a few examples. On the times when their trip has coincided with troop activities, what activity did they go do, and what activity did the rest of the troop do. I will offer my recommendations after I see your answers. Happy Scouting, BW (This message has been edited by Bob White)

When someone asks "do we put too much emphasis on Eagle" it begs the question.."who do you mean by we kemosabe" If you mean the BSA then no, not at all, the only rank emphasis they have in Boy Scouts is to First Class. If by we you mean scouters who do not understand or follow the program, then yes, among other mistakes they often put way too much emphasis on achieving Eagle. But that is a personal problem, and not one that can be corrected through anything other than the individual making the effort to better understand and deliver a real scouting program.

Pack330, When you say that you have the videos, which ones do you mean? BW

It's like that old math saying, "a square is a rectangle, but not all rectangles are square". A rank is an award, but not all awards are ranks. There is an overlap which has no bearing whatsoever on the program or how it works. And in the long run what does it matter, 'does not a rose by any other name smell as sweet'? As a historic footnote there was a time when Life, Star, and Eagle (in that progression) were not ranks at all but were 1st Class Rank embellishments. BW(This message has been edited by Bob White)

That the communities I live in (from my immediate family, my neighborhood, my town, my profession and the brotherhood of scouting) felt that my efforts made a positive difference in their lives.

You can pretty well bank on the fact that the uniform will change in the future, after all it has changed before in the past and no one ever said that the current incarnation is the final one. Whether it will be near-future or far I personally have not heard any official word (not that I am privy to everything that happens out of national by any stretch of the imagination). You can pretty much figure that it will not happen before the 2005 Jamboree. I would think that the folks at the national office have enough on their hands right now. But if I were a marketing genius I would wait for the 100th Anniversary in 2010 and introduce the new uniform on or near the anniversary to help draw media attention to both events. One last thought, this entire thread and all the concern over what's going on with a new uniform grew out of hearsay shared in a conversation between youth members. If the scout who offered the rumor to TI Lifeguard had any actual connection to the national office or to anyone who had actual knowledge of any real facts it was not shared in the post. What lead TI to think that this Scout from NY had any factual advance knowledge of such an event is unkown to us. Be very carefull not to be drawn into such flights of whimsy. Just because you see it posted on the Internet do not be so hasty as to consider it worthy of concern. When the change comes we will change with it. Some more easily than others. Happy Scouting, Bob White

See private message(This message has been edited by Bob White)

This is a good example of how scout units crash and burn. When bullying is allowed to go unchecked, good scouts quit. When individuals are allowed to put personal agendas before the purpose and methods of the program then caring volunteers leave. I urge Terry to remove the Issues and Politics board completely. There is nothing positive that will ever come out of it. And he needs to monitor the contents of the threads more closely or select some monitors to help him. This Forum has greater function when it focuses on the Scouting program and how volunteers can deliver it better. There are too many people on this board now who are not here for scouting but only to see how much they can irritate the sincere volunteers. because of the nature of the Internet is too easy to lie and conceal you true intentions. Anyone wishing to talk scouting with me can private message me. I am through posting for a while. To those who remain I urge you to be very selective of who you listen to.

That is truly unfortunate. As of what date did your friend take over?

I see teens wearing uniforms all the time: soccer, baseball, track, football, lacrosse, swimming, band, gang colors. The ones who are proud of what they are doing are proud to wear the uniform that represents their activity. I know many, many scouts who have no problem dressing the part. I think the biggest problem with uniforming are leaders who press the guys to wear it in inappropriate times. If the swim coach pushed the team to wear their uniform all the time I don't think they would like it as much either. This same conversation has taken place since the beginning of scouts. Not everyone is gong to like scouts. You have to ask yourself what is more important, what others say about you or how you feel about yourself. If you have confidence in who you are then you can discern who is worth listening to and who isn't.(This message has been edited by Bob White)

I agree with Beaver. The roll of the media is to entertain not to develop character. I don't think we can judge a generation byt he way the meadia or music industry panders to them. The values of scout have been aspired to by different cultures around the world for genarations. The values we teach are still relevant today, but kids are methods of fun change over the years and the BSA has changed with them. What is needed are leaders who are able to do the same, retain the values but use current methods. My opinion only.

"Reverent was added in 1911 by BSA and is not part of the Scout Law in the rest of the world. Hmmmm, care to make a little wager on that Boleta? Not only are there other laws with reverent, every Scout Oath includes Duty to God (tho a couple have it as an optional stanza). (This message has been edited by Bob White)

Scoutldr Why would that question make the BSA uncomfortable? Do you think they have never had to confront difficult questions before? Do you think this is the first youth or adult member to do something wrong? There have been over 110-million members in 92 years. Do you really believe this is the toughest thing they ever had to deal with?

The difference NJ is that you and some others see atheism as a religious belief. I and others see it for its definition...an absence of belief. (This message has been edited by Bob White)

You need a better understanding of the word bigot. I am not bigotted toward athiests, I discriminate against atheism, and there is a difference. I find no value in not believing in God, and so I choose the values of God over the values of atheism. That is discriminatory not bigotted. To be bigotted I would have to be unchangeable in my position. I have never said I could not be swayed. But to this point in my life no convicible argument has ever been presented that swayed me. Yours included.

Scouting asks that I be tolerant of people whose belief in God is expressed through rituals and beliefs different than my own. It does not require that I be tolerant of people who have no belief in God. So I suppose that is left up to me to evaluate on a case by case basis. When it comes to athiests, I am more apathetic than intolerant.

Hops, Since recorded time there has been a vocal segment of humanity that teases and belittles men and women of god character and positive values. Todays era is no different, and do not expect tomorrows to change. The values of honesty for the sake of honesty, doing good deeds for others without the expectation of reward, is so foreign to some people that there are entire cultures who have no word or volunteer in their language. Even in this forum you see the belief in God criticized not only by those who do not believe, but even by those who believe but not in the same way as you. And children can be especially critical. Remember that with some it is out of envy that you have the opportunity to do things that their parents do not take the time to do with them. So rather than be able to be angry with their parents they expel that anger onto you in the form of teasing and insults. Others simply are not raised with the positive ideals that your parents have chosen to see you nurtured with. Do not worry about the image of scouting. Images are seldom true, they are easily distorted. Focus on who you are, and who you want to be, and the tools that scouting gives you for both. The problem in scouting is not image. The problem is that you and every other scout deserve a quality scouting experience with all the adventure and opportunities written about in the Scout Handbook. For that to happen every unit needs quality leaders, and every scout deserves nothing less. Bob White