Bob White

Without volunteers scouting would continue as it did in the beginning, through the adventure and imagination of boys. Volunteers help to lead and share scouting, but make no mistake they are not "scouting" itself. We are fortunate to be allowed to play this game with them, and we have the responsibility to do it well without expectation for reward.

You make the rules clear to all participants when they join. If there is not an adult partner available the boy will have to wait until he is eligible to be a wolf cub. Thems the rules.

In response to Twocubs last post. 1) That is incorrect. less than 1/3 of all knots are related to training and meeting standards of the position, not most as was stated. 2)Training awards are not nominated by yourself or any one else. They are fixed requirements and while often tracked by the individual in many councils, there arte other councils that track the requirements for the individual. 3)Not all merit badge counselors are full members of the BSA, not all have uniforms, many go all year never seeing a single scout. A thank you from the scout would seem appropriate. 4) No matter how you cut it the original post is summarized by...'I volunteered my time to do this, I should be rewarded and this is what I want to be given.' It is an unseemly way to volunteer ones services. 4a) Just as scoutingus is free to voice his opinion on the topic, so are others free to voice theirs. Are they not? Welcome scoutingus, as you separate chaff from wheat understand that most the farmers here are trying to cultivate the character of scouts, and not rewards for themselves.(This message has been edited by Bob White)

The BSA requires Tiger Cubs to have an adult partner present at all activities. It is not a matter of if you let them. Nuff said? Remember that 50% (or more) of the reason that Tigers was begun was to get more adults introduced to being scouting volunteers. If you pull 5 adults into a group and use some of the group dynamics info you are learning at WB, a group leader (or two) will rise from the fold. Give them the information and resources they need to succeed, encourage them as they do little steps correctly and soon they will walk on their own. One reason that large dens quickly become small dens is that the boys are overcrowded and are not comfortable at the meetings. A few leave the setting becomes more comfortable and the others stay. Believe me five tigers are plenty.

TP Your council service centter should have lots of full color fliers that you can run through your printer to cutomize. Just call your DE or the council office. They are FREE! BW

First TP what you have there are 2 dens not one. By the time you add adult partners you have 20 people and not many people are going to have a room in their home for that many people to meet. By keeping the den limited to 5 boys and their adult partners you not ony have a more comfortable managable den but room to grow when some boys join next year who skipped the Tiger year. Second, they have no choice but to be there. Attendance by the adult partner with the tiger is mandatory not optional.

The intent of the writer is not relevent. The Handbook used several writers. Is it your suggestion that their intent of each individual contributor needs to be understood for a scout to use the information in the handbook???? So if Lockheed builds a building can a flag pole be erected as an Eagle project? Maybe. You never said what the building was used for. If it is an office buliding, then no. A Manufacturing facility, no. A school..Yes. The intent of the writer is not relevant. The Handbook used several writers. Is it your suggestion that their intent of each individual contributor needs to be understood for a scout to use the information in the handbook???? The Handbook reflects the intent of the BSA and that is all the scout needs to satisfy. So if Lockheed builds a building can a flag pole be erected as an Eagle project? Maybe. You never said what the building was used for. If it is an office building, then no. A Manufacturing facility, no. A schoolYes. Remember the location is just part of the application. The scout still has other requirements to meet. But you cannot turn it down based on being at a for-profit school when the requirement says ANY school. (This message has been edited by Bob White)

"BIG HINT 1 First go to your BSHB to Chapter 14 under Observing Nature." ???? What year is your handbook Fuzzy? Are you still using the 10th edition instead of the 11th? Chapter 14 in the current book is "Getting Along with Others" Chapter 13 is "Making the Most of Yourself" qand on page 354 under Looking and Listening says "Sit Quietly in the woods and you might observe wildlife that would otherwise stay hidden." It would probably be better if we all played the game using the current edition of the handbook. New Question. Finish the phrase "Good Judgement," says an old Scoutmaster, "comes from having lived through and learned from lot's of........." Fill iin the blank correctly.

At Noah's request I am posting two private messages which we exchanged on this topic. He feels they raise some interesting points. Noah wrote: Hi BW, See my next post What about a for-profit religious or community center? Per the Eagle Workbook, the requirement also states that it "should" benefit an organization other then the BSA. "Should" is not the same as "must." It is not noted until the limitations section that work involving the BSA is not permitted. -Noah Bob White wrote: The requirement states ANY religious institution. As far as a for-profit community center, unless it is operated by a religion, or is a school, it would not be automatically permitted according to the requirement. Yes, it should benefit an organization other than the BSA. Is the school the BSA? No, then it passes that test, right? If the rest of the Scout's project meets the requirements stated in the Boy Scout Handbook then it would be improper to deny it based on Requirement 5 which it obviously passes.

NOAH, please read the requirements as stated in the Boy Scout Handbook. That is the Scout's resource and it should be your primary one as well. You would be in error if you rejected the Scout's project based on your reasoning. BW(This message has been edited by Bob White)

Eagle requirement 5 is quite clear. "While a Life Scout plan, develop, and give leadership to others in a service project helpful tp any religious organization, any school, or your community. No distinction is made between a religious, public, or private school. It just says "any". The scout read the requirement correctly. BW If there are no other factors that would negate his proposal then you cannot turn the project down based on this point since it is not contrary to the rules of the requirement. BW

Perhaps the gracious thing to do would be to allow the people giving the award (in this case the BSA) the freedom to decide who and what will be recognized, and in what way. I don't see how it is anyone's place to tell others what awards they should develop and distribute and what they shouldn't. It's the BSA's award, can't they decide who gets them and for what?

I do believe I posted that other adults may attend at the invitation of the SPL did I not? The make up and operation of the PLC is a part of the Patrol and Leadership methods of scouting. It is a tool applied by the Scoutmaster to help reach the aims of scouting. It is not for the scouts or for the parents to dictatte or determine what the methods are or how to use them that is a program function of the BSA. Any parent who wishes to learn about these methods and help in their delivery should applay for membership and take the appropriate training.

Webelos Leader Outdoor Training (not BALOO) is required to take a Webelos Den camping.

The Council/district has no effect on our weekly meetings or monthly activities. They succeed or fail based on the work we do as the unit leaders. The Council/district provides training for the adults which, depending on the individual leader, can have a significant effect on how the program is delivered. But ONLY if the individual accepts and uses the methods of Scouting. The Council/district provide supplementary activities to enhance unit programs but it does not replace unit program and should not be the mainstay of the unit program. The council provides administrative services to support the unit committee functions but they rely on the unit having a functioning committee in order for the support to be effective. So everything comes back to the unit program, the committment of its leaders to follow and deliver the program, and the efforts of the unit committee to select responsible adults to deliver the program.

A BEAVER???? DANGER! clap-clap-clap-clap-clap-clap

A Scout is courteous, nice suggestion Hunt.

Parents may sit quietly outside the room and listen to the meeting. but remain unseen and unheard.

The more adults present the less likely the scouts will be able to make their own decisions. The Scoutmaster is responsible for keeping his/her assistants informed, just as the Patrol Leaders are responsible for keeping their assistants informed. This is the boys' meeting. Only one adult should be there, the scoutmaster.

Mrs. Smith, As for my commissioning background, I have served as a Unit Commissioner, Assistant District Commissioner, A Scout Roundtable Commissioner, and a District Commissioner. The charge given by the BSA to commissioners is to insure that every eligible youth has the opportunity to participate in a quality, scouting, program. Because of responsibility, commissioners are involved in nearly every aspect of district administration and activities in support of unit scouting. The most important characteristics for a successful unit commissioner is that they be cheerful, and good communicators. Experience is unnecessary as they are there to represent what the scouting program is, and not how they did it when they were unit leaders. Their main job at the unit level is to be available to the units they are assigned to... Communicate district, council, and national, information. Encourage and recognize good scouting practices in a unit. Evaluate, coach and council appropriate adult members in a unit as needed to help better deliver the promise of scouting to youth. Know and share the official resources of the BSA to help answer questions at all levels of the program. Inform, and when needed enforce, the policies of the BSA. Good Unit commissioning takes less time than most activities in scouting and can be a great asset to units, districts and councils. However over the years it has gained a bad reputation mainly because it has been used incorrectly. Too often unit commissioning is used as a bullpen for scouters who are burned out or were not the right fit for any other position, or they were retired unit leaders who too often told units how they did things rather than how the BSA program works. Cheerful communicators are hard to find, so Districts who try to follow the program are often short handed when it comes to commissioners. Units seldom appreciate seeing someone from outside unit scouting see the unit in action, regardless of their motivation for being there. So you have an important and relatively easy position if filled by the right person, that is often misused, unappreciated and difficult to find the right person to do. But if you feel you process these qualities, it is worth doing for the sake of the kids. Bob White Bob White(This message has been edited by Bob White)

Hotdesk, As the JASM, what are your specific responsibilities?

The PLC is designed to have one adult present, the Scoutmaster, and his/her role is to help keep the group on task. This is the SPL's meeting for his leadership team, and no one else, unless they are invited there by the SPL for a special report or presentation.

I am sorry FB maybe I am just tired, but that last post reads as a random scattering of unrelated thought that has nothing to do with what we were discussing. The point of what I wrote was quite simple. Council/District have different responsibilities than the unit has in the delivery of the BSA program. When it comes to the boy, most have no idea what district they live in or what a district does and wouldn't know the council name if it were not sewed on their sleeeve. All of that is fine, because all they need to know is that every week they have a scout meeting to go to and if they do not get a good program from the unit they will leave. The front line of scouting is the unit program and it is dependent on the ability of the adult leaders to deliver 90 minutes of scouting, not on the council/district.

I find it ironic that adults who voluntarily accepted the opportunity to share their joy and knowledge for an activity, now not only want a recognition for their benevolent activities, but they want to determine what award others should be giving them to recognize them for their donation. We take years to teach a boy the value of doing good turns for others for no other reward than the satisfaction of having done their best to help others at all times....but don't expect an adult to do that without a patch. If a person feels that they need a reward in order to feel appreciated for helping a child to grow, then this perhaps is not the organization for them to align themselves with. To graciously accept apprection shown to you by others is one thing, To expect an specify how that gratitude should be shown to you is something else entirely. Just a thought.(This message has been edited by Bob White)

If we are defining 'program' as the actual 'doing' of activities by scouts and scout units, then I cannot think of any effect that the District or Council committees have on the week to week program of a unit, outside of training leaders. Program is a function of units. Administration is a function of council/district. There are only a few exceptions such as summer camps and day camps. If a unit is relying on council/district activities to keep the promise of scouting then they will indeed disappoint a boy who came to scouting expecting fun meetings and adventure. The primary function of council/district is to insure the future of scouting in a community by securing the resources needed for units to exist. Council/districts are responsible for securing the money, manpower and membership needed to keep a flow of youth and adults into the program, and the money to pay for record keeping, property maintenance and operation, leader development, insurance protection, legal assistance, and resource sales. But once those youth and adults are in the movement it is the unit's responsibility to deliver the program. Quality unit meetings have zero reliance on council/district action or support. The council/district support of unit scouting is intentionally transparent to the scout. You will find that the vast majority of the council budget goes to direct services to youth but due to the nature of those direct services they do not go to program but to program support. Program is a function of the unit. The absolute very best advertising for scouting is the quality of your next unit meeting. Positive word of mouth will only happen when units regularly keep the promise of scouting, and that is done independent from council/district. BW