Bob White

I am not sure you have the right area le Voyageur. The reports said the scout was last seen at Pool Lake, north of Mirror lake and the area you have located I believ is miles south of there.

Then I would tell the Disrict commisioner or th District executive that the troop is having some difficulties and they might want to lok into it. Then drop it. It is not your job to insert yourself into this problem. You have a troop you are responsible for serving and should not get involved in other troop's affairs, or allow others to give you a burden that you have no control in or authority over.

An Eagle project is not automatically in and of itself a Patrol or troop activity, nor is it a scouting activity. It is a project for the benefit of others that happens to be lead by a Scout. In fact other than for the Eagle scout candidate there need not be any other scout or scouter present. So the very fact that it is an Eagle Project would not require permission slips to for minors. Now a number of factors could change that. 1)If the location or organization that the project benefits requires permission slips for minor aged volunteers. 2) if a troop or patrol attends as a scout unit. (if a troop attends as a unit a local tour permit is likely going to be needed.) 3) if the Eagle Candidate includes permission slips for minor volunteers in his plan. If a patrol, troop, pack, den, or crew participate as a planned scout activity, they would be protected by the BSA accident insurance whether they had permission slips or not. Accident insurance for youth members at planned activities is ALWAYS in-force. If the leaders fail to follow BSA policies only their liability protection is endangered, never the youth's accident insurance.

While it is very likely your request is sincere, It would be a good reminder that this is the internet, it can be a great source of information and a great danger to children. Giving personal information, like names and adresses is not a good idea. The real fact is you do not know this person. The internet allows you to be anything and anyone you want people to think you are just by typing it in. There are better ways to find scout penpals that are far safer. Talk to your Counil office to get contact names in other councils. Attend a multi council event and meet registered scouters from other areas. Perhaps you can find a relative or friend who has a child in scouting in another council. To send a stranger personal information is not a good idea. Being posters on the same forum does not make it safe. Think it over carefully before you share personal information with a stranger, especially when it involves children. A public service message from Bob White

The CO allowing the unit to bend their rules has nothing to do with the council getting another unit on the books. The goal of the council is t make scouting available to as many eligible youth as possibble. One way that is measured is through a growth in the number of charter organizations and units. Not attending Roundtables, training courses, etc. and not supporting the council financially is not breaking any rules, it's just not good scouting. The responsibility is in the hands of the adult leaders that were selected and approved by the CO. The council and district can only offer support, it is up to mature and responsible adult volunteers to accept it. It is fruitless for a unit to worry about the ability or quality of another to deliver the scouting program. That is not the unit's role. The scouts will come to you and in the long run you will be successful, as long as the unit you serve follows the program and delivers the best scouting program you can.

Merit Badge Counselors are not required to pay any fee.

No, I am over 21. But thanks for asking.

Sorry Dan I got confused. You were of course correct in both your answers. My error. Eammon, Would you like them in book order, alphabetical, or arranged by priority of their ecological impact?

"Bad judgement" is correct. FB, no surprise. New Question. Who is Robert Birkby?

Sorry Andrew, "mistakes" is incorrect. Dan, STOP can be found on page 40 of the Boy Scout Handbook

"I'll put ten talented, qualified, knowledgeable Scout Leaders of any position into a room with any one of the Requirements and still come out with a minimum of 5 different understandings." I am sure you can although I'm not sure what that would prove. Depending on who the 10 are they could very well all be wrong. If Eamonn was there at least one would be right. "How dare you say to me or to any other Scouter that because I see the situation differently than you do or that if I disagree with the BSA over a single policy that I need to leave the Boleta Clubhouse and find somewhere else to play." Where in the world did you get that from? I never said or even implied such a thing. "You find it inappropriate for me to participate in the conversation because I don't genuflect when you pronounce judgement?" I give you credit for a vivid imagination. Again, nothing of the kind was ever said or implied in any of my posts. "Again, you being right doesn't make me wrong." I have never approached these conversations from an 'I'm right, your wrong'. I have always posted from a view of the Scouting program is right, and we as leaders have a responsibility to deliver the best possible program to the scouts. I approach all grey areas from the vantage point of 'what has the program told the scout'. In the case of advancement, the primary guide is the Boy Scout Handbook. The greatest flaw in the arguement about what is in the Eagle Scout Packet is evident in the post quoting its text. Where it says "as stated in the Boy Scout Handbook..."it goes on to misquote the Boy Scout Handbook. I agree that the misquote creates confusion. but I think it is one easily remidied by putting the Scout first. He has a project which appears to meet all the requirements presented in the Handbook. AS a leader I am comfortable saying yes to him because of that, and would not take the time to look for a reason to say no. I see nothing contrary to the spirit or purpose of the advancement method or the aims of the program, or in the rules of the program,in doing so. I invite you to go back and read each of my posts in this thread and find where any individual was attacked in any way, or criticized for not agreeing with me. I said nothing in the way of a personal attack at you or anyone else. Can you say the same? I am not the bully on the playground Mr. Daigler. I have, and will continue to discuss these topics based on the content of the post, not on my opinion of the character of the poster. You would do well to do the same. Happy Scouting, BW

Not sure what all the OZ stuff is about. I thought we looking for reasons to tell a scout yes. There seems to be a lot of energy being used researching how to be able to say "no".

More important than what trips you go on are what trips do you come home from. The rules are there for your safety and the safety of others. Someone who allows you to do an activity that you are not fully prepared for is not concerned about you. We are. Do not worry, in a couple of years when you are ready to do this, the river will still be there waiting for you.

John, I absolutely agree that the the purpose of the advancement program is to help achieve the spirit of scouting. Where we differ is in our personal vision of what the "spirit" of scouting is. It is apparent in this thread that some see the need to create hurdles for the scout to overcome as a tool to help him grow, while others see the spirit as opening doors to allow him to grow. Personally, I feel the "doors" approach is more in keeping with the spirit of Scouting. The policies of advancement exist to control adults who try to misuse the program to punish or hinder scouts, not to be barriers to the Scout himself. You accuse some of us of following the books to rigidly when in fact we are using the most liberal of interpretation possible to give the scout the most benefit of the doubt and the greatest opportunity. We are the ones saying "go for it".

That depends. Are you saying you have some kind of a relationship to this troop and you are wondering what YOU can do?

The Jamboree patch is not an award, it is an activity patch. As the Insignia Guide explained, since you were a particioant at the event, you are eligible to wear the patch.

Wolfpack, Are you suggesting that "creativity" is now an Eagle Scout requirement?

"Taking the joy of adventure out and suplimenting it with classroom style teaching is wrong . I'm in a constant battle with the S.M. of my troop with the over emphisis of book work." Good News Bad news here wolfpack. The good news is that Scouting is designed and taught to be a hands on, doing, active, adventurous program just like you want. The bad news...Your SM isn't following the program. If you are doing a lot of book work and listening to adults talk then you aren't getting a sscouting program you are doing things in a scout uniform. There is hope though. You have a Senior Patrol Leader. You have patrol Leaders. Talk with them, encourage them to become the leaders that the BSA is designed to let them be. Ask us how. We will be glad to help do what we can on-line. Best wishes, Bob White

Certainly you can see the difference yourself? In one situation a scout challenges himself to reach specific goals for a specified rank. Not unlike a college student working toward a degree. The other is a VOLUNTEER begging to be given a reward for VOLUNTEERING to give service to others. Sorta like Mother Theresa saying "yeah sure helping the poor and starving is nice, and having a place in heaven is OK, but what I really want is for the Pope to give me certificate or a medal." Sorry, but if getting the opportunity to be a positive influence in the lives of young people isn't reward enough then you should never have volunteered to begin with.

Could the intent be that if a school full of children benefit from an Eagle Scout project then who cares if a few adults benefir as well. What is the need to second guess something as clear as any school?

I knew a guy like that in High School. He was sort of going steady and sort of not. By that I mean he was willing to date girls but he couldn't get any girl to date him.

I am unaware that the scout's need to, or ability to, "convince" someone to accept his help was an element in the Eagle scout requirements. Is that a recent addition? My understanding was that a school needs one and the scout was planning, developing, and giving leadership to others to install one. All in accordance with the requirements.

Tiger Dens, like other dens, require den leaders. Whether they are partners of scouts in the den or not does not matter. But the Den needs two designated, trained, adult leaders. You can still rotate the program around as Kenk suggests but you must still have two designated, trained leaders to guide and organize them.

Curious as to how signatures are being handled?

What I see as the biggest difference OGE is 'being recognized by others', and 'telling others that they should recognize you'. People who fish for compliments rarely have adequate bait.