Bob White

I would contact the individual responsible for the comments and remind him that his threats to the candidates are contrary to the policies of the OA and are not in keeping with the spirit of the OA. Ask for his assurance that he will stop making such threats, or you will have to notify the Lodge Chief and the adult OA advisor of his behavior.

While I have not been to the course director school I have been on several WB staffs, and have served in every position except assistant SM and SM. I am very familiar with the course development process. (Because I agree with with Eamonn, it is a strange rule that prohibits course directors from serving on staff again, I have chose to turn down the offers I have had to be one) This last course I served on used Beavers, Bobwhites, Eagles, Owls, Bears and Antelopes. We skipped Fox and Buffalo. This was by the course director's choice. What I do not understand is what difference it makes whether or not you belong to a rare patrol or a common one. What patrol name you are assigned is random. Patrol groupings are based on a number of elements, the name of the patrol is not one of them. The only thing that is important is the content of the information gained and the way it is used. Neither of which are dependent on which patrol you were in.

Hope this helps, http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=7108&p=1#id_7108 Bob White

I have just awakened from a nap after returning from the second weekend of Wood Badge. It will probably take a few days to get my body back in sync with the real world. I just wanted to take the opportunity to thank those of you who have taken the time to attend Wood Badge this season for a number of things. First, on behalf of the those you serve. Thank you for taking the time and committing yourself and your personal resources to improve yourself as a leader and the program you help deliver. Next, thank you on behalf of those who staff Wood Badge, for allowing us the opportunity to share our joy of scouting with you. I cannot tell you how great it makes us feel about what we try to contribute to the program, when we see the fun and excitement grow and spread among the participants as the days of Wood Badge go by. Thank you to all the patrols of the troop for you attention and active participation in the presentations and activities. We hope that we have enhanced your tool box with information that will serve you well in any leadership situation. A personal thank you to the Beaver Patrol, for the comraderie you showed me as Troop Guide. You are a tremendous team of scouters and I wish you the best as you work your ticket and continue to leave your legacy in the communities your serve, and in the scouting community as a whole. I don't think I have ever had as much fun with any group of adults as I have had with the 6 of you these past weekends. I know that some of you visit this board and I just wanted to say publicly how impressed I am by each of you, and I look forward to scouting with you in the years to come. Thank you again, see you soon, Your Friend, Bob White "Gnaw wood or die" Now go work that ticket!!!

I want to echo what Eamonn is saying. If your focus is on the needs of the Eagle rank thenyou are missing the advancement needs of over 95% of the youth. I think you have taken a good first step by reading the Advacement resources, but I encourage you to seek ways to use the influence of the Advancement committee to support and enhance all levels of advancement throughout the various program levels. Happy Scouting, BW

"Our charter is up in December, so technically this boy is still registered until December." That prety much says it all doesn't it? This is not a boy who is or isn't quittting in three months. he is a registered member of the pack just like any other scout. He paid his money like the others. I see no reason for him not to go. People change their minds. This outing, and especially this situation and the way it is handled, could make the difference in what action the family ultimately takes. Happy Scouting, BW

Sorry mich but that is not correct. While there is a specific set of WB parols, the course director of each course is allowed to choose which ones will be used during that course. the CD can start at any point in the sequence and can even skip some patrols if he/she chooses to. BW

And I believe I outlined a plan for it to be valid or not once ATC has specific answers to specific questions. But at the moment we are both guessing at numbers and no one has the answers to make a determination that something is amiss. Lets allow ATC to get his CC or CR to go in and get some answers if he chooses to. While he is entitled to see the breakdown, the council and district are entitlted to the same respect that the unit volunteers are entitled to. Nothing will get attention more at recharter time then a potentially negative effect on unit counts or FOS, and nothing will build relationships faster than helping each other (the unit and the council) to find trust and support.(This message has been edited by Bob White)

The National BSA supply Division web site lists the QWD car at $3.55 If, as ATC writes, his recharter is the last day of January the he is chartering the new scouts for 5 months as you always count the month of registration as 1. So through January would be 5 months and not 4. I think 5 issues of BL is a half year subscription, $5.40. We agree on the $1 for insurance since that was the only actual cost breakout that was given us by ATC. Cost of insurance varies from council to council as it is not a national policy. BW

What I have learned after many years ATCprofesr, is that all scouting professionals take training and too many volunteers do not. Over all a higher percentage of professionals understand the volunteers job more than volunteers who take the time to understand the professional side. I have learned the council and district volunteers work hard to benefit all scouts while many unit volunteers do not look beyond there own front door. That is my experience and I have no doubt that it effects my view on matters such as this. If the situation you describe is accurate there are some questions that need to be answered. If the district isn't answering your questions specifically then they are wrong. All will be happy to provide you a tool to fix this. First lets look at a couple things. If you take a full years registration ($10), add the cost of 5 months of BL ($5.40), a PWD car kit ($3.55), insurance ($1) and by the way most councils now pay that for the units through FOS), You come up to a total of $19.95. That is probably where the $20 fee comes from. However if they are prorating the membership to just cover the end of this charter year then they need to account for the difference of $5.88. Now I am sure that is not being used as a fundraiser because they can do a lot of other things to raise far more than $5.88 per boy for the council. But you do deserve to now where it goes. Maybe it pays for the lunch box, maybe for some of the other gifts. But your original statement of it being used as a fundraiser is still unsubstantiated. Here is what I would recommend. Have your committee chair, or better yet your CR (this really isn't your concern as a cubmaster) layout the dollars as I showed them to you on paper, and go see the District Commissioner and DE. ASK NICELY for an accounting of the missing $5.88. I am hopeful they will give a full accounting that will explain the cost. I am confident they will provide the information needed. IF NOT, explain to them that unless a satisfactory accounting can be given then here is what the Pack will do. Applications and money for remainder of this charter period will be sent in on the new cubs. They can accept them or not, that is their choice. In January money will be send in, in accordance with the National BSA membership fees along with a signed charter. If the council wants the charter organization to continue using the program they need only accept the charter. See why you want the committee chair or charter rep to do this meeting instead of you? I would then have they remind the DE that you can't do an FOS presentation at a pack that doesn't exist. All that is need is either A) an complete and satisfactory accounting of the $5.88 be made, or that $5.88 of the $20 fee be placed in the unit account at the service center for use in re-chartering in February. Then have them smile politely, shake hands and leave. You will get the explanation you deserve one way or another. I am still confident they will get it simply by showing the math and asking how the balance is being used. Eamonn, would this work in your opinion as well? BW

Since the needs and characteristics of every district are different, it would be hard to tell you what would work for your district. The basics of course are Who, What, Where, Why, When, How Who is going to do the training What training is needed What will consitute a successful trainig (it's not attendance) Where is the training going to be done Why will it get people to come When will thew courses be held How will it be promoted What other questions can you think of that would be applicable to your district? Good Luck BW

Hi donedds, I am unaware of any such rule ever being in place. If you look at the restricted activities in the Guide to Safe Scouting you will not find camping in caves listed. That doesn't mean it can't have its risks. Anytime you go into a cave you should have a trained caver with you. Each person should have multiple light sources, water, food, proper clothing, helmet, map, etc. You need to be aware of weather forcasts (many caves flood easily), and the physical abilities of the participants. But if you prepare well you can find this to be an excellent adventure, and one the scouts will always remember. Good luck and have a safe, fun time. Bob White

Sure, he is just using it for materials, he still has to plan, lead, and carry out the project. Remember fundraising can only supply the project...it cannot BE the project.

Personal scout accounts that are actually a set-aside in a troops budget are not controlled by the BSA so there would be no BSA rule against it. Here is what the BSA does say about fundraising and Eagle Scout Projects. "Fundraising is permitted only for securing materials or supplies needed to carry out the project" If the unit has no restriction on the use of the account and the Scout wants to donate his own money to the project, there is no BSA rule against it.

In all fairness, all we have form atcprfs at this point is an unproven accusation with no evidence and nothing more. A Scout is loyal. Until I have some evidence that the committee has done something wrong I trust they did what's right for the boys. I understand and accept that not everyone is wired that way.(This message has been edited by Bob White)

These are fellow volunteers being criticized with absolutely no evidence is it not?

As a trainer you should be able to get that through your district/council training committee. or you can order it through the scout store or BSA supply division. I had one of my trainers make two copies of the one in the District training kit that every District in the country recieved two years ago. Hope this helps, BW

What kind of a either/or is that Twocub. Either they created a fake fee or they just chose to add on to the real ones and keep the difference.. Good lord how bogus. There is absolutely no evidence that either was done, and you completely ignore the other alternative, that the $20 covers the cost of Boys life, insurance, PWD car and the prorated membership fee. Lets get some facts before we make accusations. Geez! BW(This message has been edited by Bob White)

(This message has been edited by Bob White)

The answer depends on what specific material you want. What are you looking for? BW

Backpacker, What fees were increased? Everything is being offered at the same price they always are. The membership committee has simply put them into a package to improve marketing and increase the effectiveness of the recruitment night. Again, what is the goal of recruitment night? Is the goal to offer the lowest price, or to gain as many new members possible? Is a 7-year-old going to be more excited about being handed a Pinewood Derby Car and Scout lunchbox the moment he joins, or is he going to walk away saying. "Wow! I was able to join for a pro-rated rate of only $2.50! AND I got this cool receipt!"

ATCpfsr and Cubmaster-Fred, I think yo need to step back at look at this from a different view. First, what do you feel the goal of a recruitment night is? What do you think the council and district committee think the goal is? If it's a to be a fundraiser they have done it badly, because they do not make ANY money from registration fees, insurance premiums, or Boy's Life registration. The price of PWD cars is set my national and so they must sell it for a fixed price and get no more money than if they were purchased later from the scout store. And they are breaking even on the luchboxes. SO, this is not a fundraiser. So why do this. Well if your Council is like ours we recharter in December. It can be difficult due to the Holidays, so at the suggestion of the packs we collect the balance of this year's registration, and all of next years. from the new families when they join in September. That way we do not go back to the new families 90-days later and ask for another registration fee. It's a courtesy, not a fundraiser. As far as the PWD car and the gift lunch box, when you have a cub recruitment night and you take their money, what do YOU give them? A Handbook? A uniform? A handshake? A receipt? Mostly likely they get paperwork at the most. How exciting for a 7-year-old boy! "Look, I just joined Cub Scouts and I got these cool forms!" What is the council sending them away with...Stuff! A racing car kit, a lunch box they can take to school and show their friends they joined scouts, They will get a great magazine in a few weeks (in some cases before their first Pack meeting sad to say). So what is your goal? I am hopeful it is the same as the council/district committee. To recruit AS MANY Cub Scouts as possible and to get them happy and excited about being scouts.

The diagram shows the 'formation' signals, as are the ones in the ad. There is another set found in early handbooks of 'stalking' signals.

I agree if you rechater by the end of the year then $20 sounds right. The fee would also include Next years membership. My question is, you said this was a fundraising. Where is the council making any money?(This message has been edited by Bob White)

The choice is of course yours. You obviously want to help these boys or you would not have stuck it out this long. I think you did the right hing to ask for help. Just understand whether at this troop or another, you will have to develop your own scouting skills before you can hope to develop the scouts. BW