Bob White

Cub Scout, Boy Scout, Venturing, each salute is different.

That is correct for $100 le Voyager. You now take the lead at $1200, and you have control of the board. Choose the next answer, we still have Things That Begin With the Letter I, Famous Cowboys, and Potpourri. While you make your decision we will pause briefly for these commercial messages.

All Councils of the BSA are 501c3 organizations, ALL unit charters are held by that non-profit corporation. The uniform rules are found in the BSA Insignia Guide. The rules I referred to are also spelled out in Leader Specific Training. No one said the scouts in uniform cannot support citizenship, just not partisan politics. We are a citizenship organization not a political organization, it just that some people try to make it political. BW

All Councils of the BSA are 501c3 organizations, ALL unit charters are held by that non-profit corporation. The Uniform rules are found in the BSA Insignia Guide. The rules I reffered to are also spelled out in Leader Specific training. No one said the scouts cannot support citienship, just not party politics. BW

The ability for scouts to wear a correct uniform is no more tied to the income of the scout and his family than is any other of the scouting methods. Uniforming, like every other part of the scouting program, is dependent on the ability of the unit leaders to make a plan and make it happen.

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Remind him that Cub Scouting activities are meant to be HANDS-0N for the boys so that they can learn by doing. Is he willing to let it look like it was done by second-graders? If his answer is yes I say go for it.(This message has been edited by Bob White)

I suggest the unit follow the BSA fund raising requirement to complete a Unit Money earning application and submit it to the council office for approval. My guess is they will not allow the unit to wear the BSA uniform or make any reference to scouting or being scouts as they promote sell and deliver the "product". If they want to continue with the project while obeying these restrictions they can but as a consumer I would not consider buying one. (This message has been edited by Bob White)

Does the pack do anything as a fundraiser besides dues???? Every pack I know of has a dollar a week dues for den supplies and then sells Scout Popcorn for the remainder of the financial needs. Not only is it far easier on the parents, it raises a lot more than $100 a boy. It also allows every family to afford scouting regardless of their income. Certainly someone has taken scout leader training and knows this??? (This message has been edited by Bob White)

The most common call to salute I hear used in Scouting is "hand salute" which makes sense since we have three different salutes for scouts and leaders in uniform plus the civilian hand salute for those present not in uniform. And remember that the handbook tells the scout to drop the salute by returning the arm to your side in a relaxed manner. You do not slap your leg when dropping the Scout hand salute.(This message has been edited by Bob White)

The rules of scoouting state that it is inappropriate as members of the BSA to support a specific candidate or party. In fact the uniform policies of the BSA forbid the use of the name or images of the BSA program to be used in those ways. The program is allowed to support particpating citizenship and can promote the participation in the election process and political activism. You simply cannot support a specifc side while also representing the BSA. Outside of wearing the uniform, and as a citizen and NOT as a scout, a person can be as involved as they choose, and hopefully their participation in scouting has given them the inspiration to do so.

Multiple council activities already exist as cluster, area, and regional activities. Charters cannot be shared between councils. Multiple units cannot share a charter. There is a a perfectly good system for the administartion of scouting that already exists. What part do you find so hard to deal with Dana that THOUSANDS of units and MILLIONS of other volunteers have no trouble with?

Units have lifecycles as leaders come and go. At some points in a units history the deliver a scouting program. Other times, as you have described, they simply do things in a scout uniform and call it scouting. As you and I know there is a big difference. As far as "traditions" all to often it has been my observation that in scouting "tradition" is a code word for "we have done it wrong for so long we have come accept it as right". Not to say there aren't some fine traditions, but many forget that the program is nearly one hundred years old but in the life of a unit whatever they have done more than 3 times is called "tradition". BW(This message has been edited by Bob White)

The methods of the scouting programs are what make each unique from the others and scouting unique fromall other programs. Think of them as ingredients in recipes. Change an ingredient and you have a different dish or no dish at all. But the only way to get the specific result you want is by following the recipe exactly. The Methods af the BSA programs work exactly the same way. The egg in the cake mix is no more or less important than the flour. Each can stand alone but when mixed with the other ingredients in the right proportion create the right batter. So depending on the flavor of the unit, while no method is more important, the proportion of the use of the methods may vary.

I didn't mean anything even close to that Big Dog. I am trying to find out if you have been given any indication of your goals and responsibilities. Something that you ought to consider before accepting.

What is your understanding of the role of the District Commissioner?

Walk away? Nay...RUN away! If you live in a council where the SE would not put the available resources to work to find a couple of new members in order to have another scout unit in operation... then you my friend are in th twilight zone of scouting. Run away. There are better ways to serve the youth in a community then through bad scouting.

I think perhaps what we are seeing is not a problem with merit badges, but a problem we have created in merit badge administration at summer camps. Summer camps are no longer viewed as being for fun and fellowship. Too many leaders have created an environment where the purpose of summer camp is to amasse merit badges. Because of that, camps are stretching resources to accomodate the expectations of the units and errors are being made. Perhaps, if we put advancment back into perspective as a tool for teaching rather than as an end unto itself, we could eventually return to merit badges being a more quality experience for the scout. (This message has been edited by Bob White)

Trail Pounder's information is accuarate and correct. HOWEVER. Councils are independent corporations under the administration of the Scout Executive. the solution....ASK! Go to the SE and ask "What do you want?" "If you want to have another Crew Chartered this year, what are you willing to do to help us find the remaining scouts you want us to have?" If the SE is unwilling to help you begin this new unit then walk away, this is not a council that is going to succeed.

I have to admit a mental fog on my part perhaps cocolin. I have read your last post over a few times and I do not understand what you are trying to say. I think what both Eamonn and I are saying is that we don't know if planting flowers is a good eagle project until you give us proof that it is. If you can tell us what is involved, and how it would require your leadership, then it is a good project. If you cannot answer those questions then it is a bad eagle project. That is what the project write-up is all about. Show that you understand and use good leadership skills and any service project can be acceptable as an Eagle Project. But until you can communicate what the specific steps in accomplishing the specific goal are, and show how you will give leadership, then no project will qualify regardless of its purpose. It is not about what the project does, it's about what you do to prepare for and lead the project that matters.

I think I can explain that Eamonn. It is because the methods are now explained in detail in the pre-course to Scoutmaster Specific...New Leader Essentials. In fact the bulk of that course explores and compares the methods of the three BSA programs and how they evolve as the scout grows. Then they are revisited in the Leader Specific courses of each program. In this District they are a regular topic of Discussion and presentation at roundatbles as a supplemental training. This is why it is important not to skip steps in the training continuum as each course lays the groundwork for the next one. I hope this helps, BW

Do not get fixated on what the projet accomplishes. That is not the purpose of the Eagle Project requirement. What is important is that no matter what the project does ...the Eagle Scout must plan and gives leadersip to it. Almost anything that benefits people outside of scouting can be an Eagle project if the Eagle candidate does his part correctly. Focus on what leadership skills are needed to plan and carry out ANY project. Then apply those skills to a specific goal. That is what an Eagle Project is.

So what exactly is the big dilemma? It can't be that te boy says he is going to quit as foto mntions because "going to" isn't the same as "has". Going to hasn't happened yet, and in fact Foto refers to the boy as "one of my scouts" and regardless of personal opinions of other posters the fact remains tat his membership in in force with the Unit until such time as his membership is not renewed. Even if a scout doesn't show up for the first 11 months of his membership he is still a scout until his membership expires. So what is the dilemma, that the boy might enjoy himself and change his mind? That he might enjoy himself and still quit? If so...so what he paid for the activity. That he is taking up someone else's spot? If so that was never mentioned by Foto. I think foto sees the dilemma being what others might say. Sorry, the ability to ignore gossip and hearsay must come from the resolution of your own values. Here is where I see the real dilemma is. "Sometimes I think the boys wear their Quitting badge more proudly than the badges that they have earned." If you have enough experience with scouts quitting, to be able to make this determination then you have a dilemma greater than whether a cub scout should be allowed on an activity with his pack. No mention has been made that this boy misbehaves, has violated any policies or interrupted any program. Why would anyone even have to consider not letting him go. Remember the parable of the prodigal son? I think the focus may well be on the wrong dilemma. Something to consider, BW

Just take deep breaths TP, the rocking will subside in due time. All will be well. Listen, Lead, Leave a Legacy. The next move is yours. BW

Mitch, have you considered that some posters use the name of their WB patrol in their handle because its easy to remember? Others use their name, ranks, offices. Some just happen to use wood badge patrols. As a scout I was a member of the Hawk Patrol. It never occurred to me that there may be more scouts who have been in the Flaming Arrow Patrol than there were scouts in the Hawk patrol. But I don't know for sure that that is true, and I don't see how it has affected my scouting or my life in any way. I just happened to have been a Hawk and it's a nice coincidence if I meet another Hawk but I have no idea if there are a lot of us or a few, and I do not see how it changes anything. I just cannot wrap my mind around what would make this an issue of any weight. Whether Antelopes are many or few no one knows for sure. If it brings you some pleasure to say they are rare I see no harm, but on the other hand I see no need either. Happy Scouting BW