Bob White

The use of patrols is a "method" of scouting not just a grouping. Re-arranging or combining patrols, even on a temporary basis, is not how the method works. If the Bears and the Vikings are playing football and all the Bear's QBs get injured they don't borrow one from the other team. (not that it wouldn't be an improvement:)) Grouping by mixed ages and ranks is not part of the method either. The BSA program works if you follow the program. Patrols are a group of scouts of similar age, abilities, and interests. They come in three types. New Scout, Experienced (somtimes called regular), and Venture. (This message has been edited by Bob White)

"Privacy has its place and is not a curse or takes away from any program." Where did anyone say it did? Not every person who works at Philmont has the skills to be a Ranger. And every solo Ranger's whereabouts are known by the HQ, and by night fall is in a subcamp, just not the one your crew went to. I do not understand the concern here. How does my use of the buddy system affect you in any way. It is by no stretch of the imagination a misuse of the program or a violation of policy. It is safe, it follows the philosphy of be prepared, iot helps teach scouts that they are responsible for each others welfare. My gosh you have a leader posting on this board who claims to lose 50% of the new scouts who join each year, and yet more of you have chimed in about my use of the buddy system than spoke up about his misuse of the entire program. I am in complete awe of such behavior.

Yes.

I should have said at the Troop Committee Challenge Training for Troops. BW

mich632, The optimum patrol sze is 6-10. I have found 6 to 8 works best. If only two scouts are showing up your problem isn't patrol size it's attendance. That can be caused by a number of issues. Are your patrol leaders doing a good job of representing the needs of the patrol when they choose dates for outings? Are the families given enough notice to plan for outings? Are the activities exciting enough to get boys to attend? Does every boy in the patrol have a position of responsibility and a purpose for being there? Remember two patrol members can camp as easily as 8, as long as they know there will just be two.

Committee members serve at the behest of the Charter organization representative and the Committee Chair. The Committee Chair determines your role on the committee and can change it at any time. The charter determines your membership not your task assignment. All this and more is available for you to learn at Cub Leader Job Specifc Training. BW(This message has been edited by Bob White)

"If experience states one thing, and "newbies" state another. What then?" Follow the ones that follow the BSA program. You did not sign on to deliver somebody else's version of scouting. You signed on to deliver the BSA's program, right?

Dan "Programs Helps" only covers Tigers through Bears now. The Webelos program in in the Webelos Leader Guide. BW

You never know when you will be in an accident.

If a Boy Scout had a medical condition that required that the parent or legal guardian be in the tent with them, that would be fine. But if the scout had good training in cubs he will not want a parent in his tent with him as a New Scout. He is looking forward to being independent of adults and camping with his friends. If a scout wants to meditate why does that require he be alone? He just needs to be with someone who will respect his quiet time. A Scout is courteous right? "Outdoor magazines are filled with survival situations that have lone travelers (car, boat, and hike)that found themselves alone against the elements" Ever notice how those stories fall into one of two categories, 1)People caught unprepared by poor planning or unexpected occurences they were not anticpating, or 2)Etremely skilled and experienced individuals who went alone knowing that it was a dangerous if not deadly activity and they were testing their ability to beat death. I hope you are not suggesting that either is appropriate for scouting.

Having a Den Chief is a great thing, but even a Den Chief can't help an untrained leader. Another resource available to you is a brochure on "Selecting Quality Pack Leaders" available from your unit commissioner, District training team, local professional or council service office. It will outline an extremely effective way to select and recruit an Assistant Den Leader. You could buddy up and get trained together. (This message has been edited by Bob White)

Excellent Ed you explained that perfectly. You are now one small step closer to understanding the youth protection policies of the BSA.

"Many adults outside the BSA camp/hike solo." I am hopeful they have more experience and expertise than a 12 year old or thay are not hikers they are fools. Any one who learns outdoor skills knows the first rule of safety is "never go alone". Again no one is saying you have to do this. Part of leadership is being able to take what you learn from one place and be able to transfer that information to another. Not every leader makes the same choices. If we agree that the goal is to "be prapred" and to keep scouts in our charge safe be being preepared then where is the problem with no scout sleeps alone?

"I'm not sure it is "against regulations". I have seen a letter suggesting this practice be stopped but haven't seen anything officially stating it is "against regulations"." THEN "I don't own a Tiger handbook & didn't know it was in there." You supported this action by saying that you hadn't seen it refered to in anything official when you did not even READ the official resources that refer to this part of the program? That is just laughable.

"I have no materials like what is provided for the Bears, Tigers etc to plan my meetings by." Sure you do! Your problems are 1) no one told you what resources were available to you when you were recruited, and 2) Either no one told you of the training that was available, or you knew but chose not to go. There is a program planning and skills manualspecifically for Webelos which your pack should have provided you with. It is called the Webelos Leader Guide. Using this Guide with the Webelos Handbook and a few hours of training you will be just fine. By the way your cubmaster needs to be informed that not all Webelos activity badges can be earned in a month...some take two. You will find which ones they are in the Guide. Please go to training. You will need New Leader essentials if you have not taken that yet, and Webelos Leader Job Specific training. Your cubmaster should be able to get the dates and locations for you. There is also a monthly Cub Roundtable meeting hosted by your District Commissioning team where you can learn hands on activities to do with your Den. (This message has been edited by Bob White)

"Sunday morning, as we are loading up, I took the time to tell the dad what a great kid his son is and how much we enjoyed having him in the pack. The dad thanks me but almost in passing says that the boy isn't really his son. The "dad" lived with the mother from the time the boy was three months old until a year or two ago. He said the boy never met his real dad and considers him his father." Aside from learning how to turn back time I don't know that you can have done any more, if you did all the things you said you did. BUT you have to do ALL those things. And if you know or discover ahead of time that the adult doesn't meet the criteria of the BSA, you have a decision to make. You have to decide if you like this person enough to risk the scout's safety and your personal finances and allow them in the tent. Or you say "we told everyone the rules and you do not qualify under the policies of the BSA to stay in a tent with that boy on this event". I know what choice I make.

I am not sure how to answer in a way that will satisfy you. The BSA is telling you the rule. How your unit comminicates and supports that rule is your units decision to make. How much do you like your home? I have already answered this but I wil repeat. Since the troop I serve NEVER allows ANY adult to sleep in a tent with ANY youth, we have no need to require any proof. I have never shared a tent with my son at a scout function in the 9 years of his scouting and nearly 180 nights of camping he has done. (This message has been edited by Bob White)

As A reminder I do not have a troop. I serve my son's troop. I was in my troop 30 years ago. In my son's troop adults NEVER tent with youth EVER. As a Cub Master, when we camped all the parents knew the rules, we were specific and detailed. If you were not legally responsible for that boy you were not to be in a tent or alone with him while scouting. We made no exceptions. No nutty excuses from adults in or out of scouting. (This message has been edited by Bob White)

Calling it "Extreme Camping" doesn't make it so. We had a day camp that was called "Rocket to Outer Space" to the best of my knowledge no one actually went. What are the conditions the cubs camp in, and what kinds of activities are they doing? That way we can better evaluate whether the program is appropriate for Cubs.

How about co-leaders for the den? Nothing says you can't both be registered as Den Leaders and work as a team.(This message has been edited by Bob White)

OKAY granted maybe it says you can't do it in the Handbbok and in the Leaders manual, and in the G2SS, but where else? I mean if they were really serious about it wouldn't be in 12 or 15 places at least. It's not on the adult application. It's not sewn in the labels of the uniform. So how do we know when they say "Prohibit" they not just saying "well I guess if you want to you can"? They don't make you swear not to do it in the Cub Scout Promise. I really think if they want us to take them seriously they need to at least have it done in skywriting over every council in the country every scout Sunday...Right Ed!

Bowl-a-thon, bike-a-thon, walk-a-thon, none meet the requirements for a UNIT money eraning project. The BSA Unit Money Earning Application form is specific and clear on this point. If the scout doesn't earn the money he doesn't get his awards??? Ok the pack not paying for activity fees I can understand, But not giving a child his recognitions??? Why do they even bother to be scout leaders if they are willing to do that to kids? Instead of doing the bike-a-ton Zippity, I would ride the bike to another pack, these folks are out of control. BW

I don't see why age shold be a factor, in fact we have an Eagle Court coming up it may take three or four of us but what the heck.(This message has been edited by Bob White)

Offer to help her select and recuit a co-leader to help share her load.

Take Youth Protection or New Leader Essential Training and tell me that they do not instruct you that it must be a parent or legal guardian. This is truly frightening, and it explains a lot.