Bob White

I think some are confused as to why I asked the age and rank spread of the patrol. If you have 10 1/2 year olds in a patrol with 16 year olds how do you offer one program to them? What does a 10 year old and a 16 year old have in common? Virtually nothing. Sure you can have older boys teach younger ones, and there is value to that. That's why we have Den Chiefs for Cubs, Troop Guides for New Scouts Patrols, and Instructors for Experienced Patrols. But how can you offer a basic level program to a new scout who is next to a scout with 5 years of experience and not be either over the new scouts head or boring the older scout. Plus the older scouts have a right to expect a program that fits their physical abilities, and so does the 10 year old...and they are not the same program. So if you follow the progam and have different skill levels but use mixed age patrols now you have to split the patrol up for difernt instruction periods and different activities and BINGO, there goes the Patrol Method down the drain. Having three levels of patrols allows you offer a program level that fits the ability and interest of the entire patrol for all the patrols at that level. And it keeps the troop program from being the same thing over and over again each year until you bore the Scout out of the troop. B:) White

Scoutldr is right. There are some things you just have to take training for that do lend themselves to a bulletin board to to the depth of the subject matter. This really should not be used as a substitute for training but as an enhancement and idea sharing AFTER training.

So ps56k, would you as a SM approve the scout you described to be included in the troop election? Just beacuse he meets the camping requirement that does not make him a candidate. It's just ONE of the requirements.

cubbobwhite The contents of New Leader Essentials/Cub Leader Job Specifc Traing is no different then the content of its predecessor Cub Leader Basic Training. It was merely repackaged to eliminate some redundancies and so that a Den Leader would not have to sit through info that was specifically for a committee member, and vice versa. Plus the new course addresses program differences between the different Den levels which the older course did not do a good job of. Please share one element that was a part of the Cub Basic Training course that is not found in the current basic training syllabii. B:)b White (This message has been edited by Bob White)

FScouter AoL requirements are not a separate issue. The problem arose primarily with home schooled Scouts who were bypassing the 5Th grade requirement since their prograss is not measured that way. There were cases of Home Schooled Scouts completing AoL before they were 10 and some were allowed membership into a troop. National has reminded Cub Leaders that you must be 10 before you complete the AOL and graduate to Boy Scouts.

Hunt, I think how much fun scouts have is more dependent on the quality of their leadership and how well the Scouting program is delivered, and not on the number of scouts. How well you can implement the patrol method is a another question. It can work quite well with 6 to 8 and is much more dificult with more or fewer...but not impossible, just more difficult. During that first year however the program is focused more on teaching the basic skills and exposing New Scouts to the PLC on a temporary basis. How mnay scout do you need in the New Scout Patrol to accomplish that? (This message has been edited by a staff member.)

Since wearing the uniform could be seen as the BSA giving endorsement to the fundraising activities of St. Judes then you need the permission of the Scout executive. The uniform is a registered trademark of the BSA and you unit does not have the legal authority to use it to endorse ANYTHING that has not been approved by the local Scout Executive.

It's late so let's see if I can type this correctly.. The national office recently clarified that to complete the AOL a Cub must be at least 10 years old. So, to join Boy Scouts you must be 11 years old and have completed the 5th grade, or be at least 10 and have completed the AOL.

The Charter Representative is selected by the Head of the Charter Organization ans serves at their will. The Charter Representative and the Head of the organization determine the CC, at their will. While the Cgarter representative can remove you from office they cannot remove your adult membership until the end of the charter year unless they persuade the Council Scout Executive to do so.

We are not training people to run a den meeting, we are training people to believe in, and deliver, the values of scouting. That requires an understanding of how we do, what we do, and why we do it. That's what New Leader Essentials is all about. You don't learn to ride a bike and then expect to ride in a race the next day. The goal is to be able to ride on your own and not fall over. With practice you learn how to take all the things that got you balanced and moving and make it go fast. Leader Specific trainng is the same things. B:)b White

What do you do? That depends. You didn't tell us what your positon in the pack is.

I think you you bring up a very good point. There seems to be a number of people who after attending New Leader essentials and Leader Specific Training that this is BASIC training not "all you ever need to learn" training. The content of the training materials and the goal of the presenter is to give a volunteer the big picture of scouting and then to give them the basic resources and confidence to begin. If you want to be really goos then you have to be willing to invest some more learning time and pay atention to the application time you spend in the meetings. No single training can prepare you for every situation you will encounter, it can't. What it can do is sirect you in the direction for finding resources (human and print) where answers can be found. B:)b White

Fling that is not what I said. Although some of it is what one person says I said. Here is how the patrol method is designed. There are 3 levels of patrols, not one for each age. New Scout, Experienced, Venture. when new scouts join from Webelos they are formed into New Scout Patrols, and taught the basic scout skills (Requirements through First Class rank. The next year they become an experienced patrol or join experienced patrols with scouts of similar ability and interests. Once the reach 14 they can become a Venture Patrol or join a Venture Patrol with scouts of similar abilities and interests. If two or more boys joined I would make them a new scout patrol, teach them the basics and encourage them to recruit. If one scout joined I would place him in a patrol of scouts who were similar in age and interests. Then I would replace my Webelos coordinator and find someone who could recruite more than one scout a year. Where we got into a discussion where I was extremely misrepresented was about what to do when only two Scouts from a patrol show up for a campout. The program says that they remain a patrol. they do not get merged into another and lose their indentity, leadership and, and patrol function. Two people can camp as easily as 8 if they adjust their equipment and menu to two people. My point was you do not mix teams. What I am suggesting is to use and follow the patrol method. B:)b White

Here is my advise. Give them the best Cub Program you can. Get them hooked on scouting. As Webelos help them through good palnned programs to get to Arrow of Light. Take them on two oe three Den campouts but do not try to make them Boy Scouts on them. No back packing, have the parents cook let the boys help. Make sure they have a comfortable sleeping environment and mild weather. Show them that they can have fun away out in the woods. Show them the plants and animals and wonder of nature. Get involved early with a scout unit that uses the New Scout Patrol and First Class Emphasis program elements. Have an adult leader from that unit visit from time to time to help teach some of the AOL requirements and camp skills. Try to get a good Den Chief to help be an ambassador of the Scouting program. Have fun. B:)b White

In which case do you feel a scout was insukted?

Eamonn, As you know, except for the accent you and I are very much alike in our understanding and delivery of the scouting program. I'm sure neither of us expected we would be 100% the same. I think the diference we have on this item doesn't effect us on a delivery level but more in how we see some bigger picture things. This will make a good converstaion over a cup of tea at Jamboree (my treat)or over breakfast (I do enjoy bangers). Or if you like we can set up some chat room time to duke it out:) Take care my friend, B:)b White

"This is not one where the democratic process rules." Nor should it be a dictatorship. Like the other methods of scouting it is a tool for leadership but it is not a hammer. What is gained, other than cosmetically, if the scout wears the uniform because he was ordered to rather than out of pride for what it represents?

As well as other council and district volunteer and professional positions depending on the size and needs of the area being served. B:)b White

The most important job in Cub Scouts? The Den Leader. The toughest role to fill? the Den Leader. The biggest influence on the youth? The Den Leader The hardest working? The Den Leader. The most rewarding? The Den Leader. The least likely to attend training? The people responsible for supporting the Den Leader. B:)B White

"Remember: Forming, Storming, Norming, and Performing are leadership techniques -- not stages like infant, toddler, child, teen-ager, adult. Check your syllabus again Unc. These dynamics are not leadership skills, they are dynamics. If you were the leader of the group you would use different leadership styles during the different stages, but you do not "use" the stages to lead. You must understand the dynamics however in order to lead effectively. B:)b White

Instruct...no. Ask, motivate, yes. B:)b White

Please note that for most "norming" phase has begun.

Won't comment on whether I am friendlier or just sound that way when not having to defend myself against wacky allegations against me. Which is better will bepend on which you skills and abilities are best suited for. Curious as to what you thought was mentioned here that was vague in the training? B:)b White PS Kids are supposed to run away screaming on Halloween aren't they?

"Can we do this as a service project" That would be upo to the Scoutmaster "and can we wear our uniforms?" Tat would be up to the Scout Executive of your council. B:)b White

Agreed Eamonn, So hypothetically if I were not a memebr of the CO I would go to the Charter Rep, share my scouting experience with him/her, explain why I would enjoy helping the pack, and offer to help in whatever p[ostion the CR would like me to do. B:)b White