Bob White

WOW, where to begin. I am sure your mother is a wonderful person but whast you are hearing is still third person at best and falls in the rumor category. In order of your concerns. 1) Since this is a boating organizatio it is likely a Sea Scout Crew but even if it is not, making sure there is an advancement program is the responsibility of the unit not the council executive. It is unlikely he was personally involved in it, more likey a District executive was. 2) Unfortunate if true. 3) Is that a problem? That depends on what they refused to do. 4) I would be interested in how you determined that Scouting is a sexist organization? I would agree some scouters are sexist, but that's their problem, that hardly makes Scouting sexist. Foto, The Key three does not hire the council executives. BW

John D. Please do not even get me started on lecturing the scout during a Scoutmaster Conference or on only having two boards of review a year. Please just answer one question. Has the scout in question completed all the requirements for his Life rank?

"but I don't much care for making everyone else pretend to be Venturers for the summer." So? Aside from not liking it how does it affect you in any way? "Most of the rest of the staff didn't care for it either, but no one thought it was worth raising a fuss about." They were right on both counts. "Also, if I am going to return on staff, that would mean I would have to register as either a Crew Committee member or an Associate Adviser. Now, if by some chance something severly bad were to happen at camp, and there were any legal unpleasantries, I don't much like the idea that the charter for that unit is in any way questionable." Who would question it? The Council? You said they already approved it. As long as they have enough advisors and committee members to charter why would they have to have you. Just say no thanks, that you are already registered in another position. The only reason you have for being concerned is that you have made the choice to make yourself concerned. This does not affect you in any way.

"I still cannot believe that you are dead set in your mind that the units cannot promote scouting themselves. This is the main way we get support from the community and recruiting new boys." No its not. How can it be when everyone seems to agree that scouting doesn't get enough press? The main way we get support from the community is from the reputaion of the 94 years of scouting from the over 110 million people who have been in the program. The best thing ANY unit can do for public relations is to have a good program not a good press release. How does a PR person improve the quality of the program you deliver? The best recruiting tool you have is the quality of your last meeting. "Is it not better for the community to see the faces associated with the local unit asking for things rather than someone who has no connection with the town whom they might only see when something is needed." What person might that be. Every member of our district and council committee lives in the district and council they serve. Do you have people on your district committee who do not live in your district? Sending in a list of advancements given out at the last pack meeting is not PR. Advertising your pancake breakfast is not PR. If you want to do those things go ahead. PR is a little more involved than that. Let's get back to the premise of the thread. "In the Sports over Camping thread, we've found that Scouts dont get much publicity. How will continuing to do what you have always done get you more publicity?

"Since all members of the staff at the camp are required to register in said crew, and since the camp leaders are made the leaders of the crew, it could at least be of interest to me." Why? If the council accepted the charter what difference does it make to you or anyone else? You might be curious, but curiosity does mandate that you get an explanation. How does the fact thet they hold a charter affect you in any way?

The first reason you list is not PR it is advertising and there is a difference. The second reason you list is indeed PR and are all District and Council level operations and not activities that individual units should expend their resources on. Which has been the main point I have tried to get you to see. BW(This message has been edited by Bob White)

Still having trouble with 'discuss the post and not the poster' NJ?

As far as I know we have only invited other District or Council members to two events and they came to both. There are two parents in the unit on the District Committee and we are pretty much always there so I guess its not that big of a deal to us. I have gone years as a leader with only seeing District members at our Eagle Courts of Honor. I never invited them to anything else. Never saw the need.

According to your profile you are an assistant scoutmaster. I don't see how this affects you, or the unit you serve, or the charter organization you belong to, or how it affects the Troop's program in any way. How do you see this as problem for you? If you were a Council board member you might have reason for concern. But as an ASM, what do you care how long another unit is chartered for, or whether or not it achieves Quality Unit Award?

We train the district and council volunteers to NEVER show up at a unit meeting uninvited.

Anarchist post 1 "During his disappearing act he did not "complete' his job (in a satisfactory manner) as ASPL and due to a weak SPL the troop could have really used his efforts. I don't think he has been on an outdoor activity in the last twelve months...He is currently acting as Chaplins Aid for his POR requirements...and will be given his eagle... Anarchist post 2 I did not say he completed all his requirements. I said he disappeared and did not participate with the troop or in the troop activities for a year." You did not mention that there were any other requirements other than the Leadership role and that he was in the process of meeting that. If there were other outstanding requirements they were not mentioned. John D. To abscond the scout would have had to have been there and escaped or run off suddenly. I thought you said he just stopped coming? You never mentioned that he managed to escape. Who said to track him down? He came back to you didn't he? Would it be too much to expect the SM to sit down and talk to the boy? If he wants to advance he should be able to prove he met the requirements. You don't have anything against the kindly old SM setting his pipe down and asking the scout if he believes he met the requirements and how? I don't blame you for being cranky. The thought of open communication with a scout in hopes of helping him to make ethical decisions as he matures just makes my blood boil. Who does he think he is coming back to a troop meeting? What does he think we're running here some kinda club for boys!!! The nerve.

I'm speechless.

The plan is simple. Talk to your local district chairperson. See if they have a person or persons on the committee who are skilled at PR ask how the district can help units improve their odds of getting media coverage through things like contact lists, media kits, press realeases, PSA formats. etc. But first have a goal. A question that has yet to be answered is what does PR on a unit level do for the unit? What does it add to your unit program or activities. If it doesn't benefit your delivery of the scouting program to the boys then why are you doing it? What methods of scouting do you employ and what aims of scouting does it achieve? The purpose of the district/council is different from the purpose of the unit. I can see how PR benefits the goals of the district/council but how does it help a specific unit?

I doubt that the council would allow you to expose yourselves or them to the liability.

Fred, you have provided an excellent exmple. "If council were to get involved" First who said coucil? What about the district? Why couldn't it be done at that level? "then the items would not be fresh and probably wouldn't make it into the local paper." You are surrendering to a problem that hasn't happened anywhere but in your own imagination. How do you it will not be fresh, what plan have you imagined that would cause that. What if you imagined it differently. Is there a way to process the information professionally and quickly? I'll bet there is because the business community does it all the time. Thats why I suggest getting people who are trained in the skill. Why can't a PR person get it into local media? Is the where abouts of your local paper or radio station a secret known only to a few local scouters? You have not only created problems that yet to exist but once you imagined the problem you never stopped to imagine their solutions. Look if what you are doing works fine. But I was answering Hops question. He says scouts don't get enough publicity and wanted suggestions. My suggestion is if you want it done better then you need to do two things. Do it differently than you do it now, and use people who are trained to do it. To say that "that can't work in my community because my community is different" is surrendering before you have even tried.

OOPS! Thanks Acco.

"Most of us here are unit level volunteers with only minimal if any involvement with the organization and operation of the district and council." And you can't make a phone call? "At the moment though, there is no such person or if there is they haven't bothered to tell the units." Communications is a two-way street. Have you asked? "However, what I can do, is make certain my unit makes good use of the PR options available to it." What does your unit gain from PR? How does it improve your program? Let's remember when refering to the district and council committes as the distant "They", that they are volunteers just like you. Volunteers make up the district and council. Volunteers who are willing to work not just for their own kids or just the kids in one unit but all the kids and for ALL the units in YOUR community. And for the most part, their payback is attitudes like yours. Imagine what could be accomplished with a more teamlike approach then your "them and us, and them aren't doin much" approach.

The best way to get the most current version is to get it off line. it was updated this month. But a council that runs off several copies has no way of knowing when national is going to run updates and it does not want to waste resources so it is giving the brochures out until they are gone. They should be telling folks to always look on line for possible updates and additions. netbsa.org is also known as scoutnet. It is an intranet that links all councils to national and vice versa. The reason that they are not to reproduce information from it is that it contains confidential information on millions of members. So what you saw was a standard disclaimer which can be enforced at will. BW(This message has been edited by Bob White)

The BSA's Congressional Charter prohibits the BSA from operating a unit. What usually happens is adult members of the camp staff form an ad hoc unit committee to charter the crew for camp staff.

Het if works great! But if it is not what you want it to be or if others have had great success doing it another way lets not have this knee jerk reaction of "oh, that would never work here". The District has specific responsibilities to help support units and PR is one of these. The thought that one's commumity is unlike any other in the nation and so what we do won't work in another community, when it hasn't even ben attempted is a defeatist attitude.

Members of Venturing Crews (not to be confused with Venture Patrols) as well as Explorers in law enforcement and emergency services posts may design their own uniform. I do not believe that other Explorers Posts have uniforms. Is M.Shaver still involved in Scouting up there? You are the north east portion of the council right?

We would be a stronger program if only more scout leaders could visualize how to make things succeed with the ease and frequency as they visualize things failing. Why do so many people waste time and energy coming with excuses not to do something, or why something will fail, without ever making an effort to make it succeed. You are not even phased by people who say "try this it worked for us", you immediately lapse into "Oh sure where you live maybe, but that couldn't possibly work here". I am amazed and saddened by how many people create their own defeat before they ever make the effort to try to succeed.

Each Council has the authority to do that if they wish but it completely ignores the whole purpose as to why national spent the time and money to create the in-line training. I present this couse between 12 and 24 times a year, and I have taken the online course, and I would invite anyone to tell me one piece of needed information that is included in the live course that is not contained in the on-line course. They are pretty much identical. I fwe can get this information into the minds and hands of more leaders by using the available technology then they should be free to make use of it.

"During his disappearing act he did not "complete' his job (in a satisfactory manner) as ASPL and due to a weak SPL the troop could have really used his efforts. I don't think he has been on an outdoor activity in the last twelve months...He is currently acting as Chaplins Aid for his POR requirements...and will be given his eagle..." If all he is missing is his requirement to actively serve in a leadership position, and he is now completing that requirement, then no one is "giving" him the Eagle Rank...he is EARNING the Eagle Rank. The only requirements he has to meet are the ones set by the BSA. Whatever else others want to see him do is irrelevant.

Congrats Foto Scout, When the Buffalo herd gathers tonight try no to step on any visiting Bobwhites.