Bob White

Eagle SM I do not see how the number of my posts has anything to do with it. Keep in mind that many were responses to questions for assistance directed specifically to me. Had I not responded I am sure you would have been equally critical of me. PS56K is welcome to have and post an opinion, which he did and no one as you can see kept him from doing so. That however does not mean that others have any less right to question his post. My only response to him was based on the logic of his argument. If the scout has only to do two specified activities from a list, what difference does the size of the list matter as long as there are more than 2 choices. As far as why those outdoor activities are listed it is very simple. What is camping? Basically its sleeping in a rustic structure. Tent camping is sleeping in a tent. There aren't many people who don't know how to fall asleep. The merit badge teaches two very important things. One is how to prepare yourself to go somewhere and fall asleep, AND that there should be more to going outdoors than just pitching a tent. Scouts shouldn't go camping! They should go DO STUFF! And while their out there why not sleep in a rustic shelter? TOO MANY troops go camping. They plan by saying lets go camp. Then as an afterthought they say "and while we are there what can we do?". Patrols and troops instead should plan to go do stuff like caving, rappelling, cycling. Then say "so that we can spend more time doing this thing let's camp while we are there". The Camping merit badge teaches you to plan your camping as part of DOING other things, and then how to plan your gear based on the activity, your transportation, and your environment. Mystery solved. My whining comment was toward the first three posts as a group. Why is it so shocking that the cooking mb should stress sanitation? The cooking part of cooking is pretty easy isn't it? I mean its not like you personally have to move the molecules around really fast is it? The heat source pretty much does that for you. You need to know three things, What am I going to eat, how am I going to transport it, how do I use it to stay healthy. Sanitiation is a big part of food, as a restaurant owner. As far as the other whine, that has been owned up to and apologized for so I see no need to rehash it. FINALLY, The National Boy Scout Advancement Committee meets a couple times a year and constantly reviews the advancement program looking for ways to stay current and comprehensive. Many serious scouters take the time to evaluate program needs and write meaningful letters to the BSA recommending program ideas they hgave developed. Others attent national training courses where they have the opportunity to discuss ideas with other dedicated scouters and national representatives to constructively share ideas. Still others send whining posts to internet sites or complain to other volunteers in a parking lot after a meeting and then claim responsibility when something changes, as if anybody really altered the program because of their personal dicontent. BW(This message has been edited by Bob White)

Section IX classifies paintball with firearms Section VIII sets the regulations for which fire arms members of the BSA are allowed to use. And under what conditions they can be used. While shooting paint guns at still targets is undoubtedly safe under the proper supervision. (it also seems extremely boring when you could be shooting a .22 rifle at greater distance or a shotgun at a flying target instead), it is currently restricted by the BSA.

While the BSA has always allowed Charter organizatioons the ability to determine their own membership based on religion, school affiliation, geographic territory etc., there are limitations. No Scout Unit is alllowed to base membership selection based on race. Units doing so will have their charters revoked.

I would explain to the parent that at this level of cubbing the boys will not be in activities or situations where knives are a needed or useful tool to have with them. That there is also a safety issue regarding the other boys to consider as well. Tell dad that when his son becomes a Bear scout he will recieve traning in the care of, and operation of, a pocket knife. And until that time he will need to leave all knives at home. BW(This message has been edited by Bob White)

The G2SS clearly classifies a paintball gun as a "type" of firearm and a restricted type as well. What the rules might be in the future has no bearing oon your responsibility to follow the rules today.

WWBPD, I think you need to read the G2SS regagrding firearms again. What you suggest is prohibited unless done in cooperation witha Venturing Law Enforcement Post under the guidelines of the Police fire arms training agenda.

and specifically what evidence do you have that shows that whining played any role in the change?

There have been no cub scout uniforms in the BSA that were gray. What identifying patches does it have that leads you to believe in is a cub uniform?

The BSA does not approve or disapprove of ANY religion. The BSA approves what awards it recognizes for wear on the BSA uniform, and does so based on their requirements and how those requirements further the values and Aims of the BSA Program. At the present time the BSA does not approve the requirements set forth by the Unitarian Church for their award. The Scout is welcome to pursue the recognition from his church, he simply may not wear the award on his Scout Uniform. (This message has been edited by Bob White)

Open question to anyone, Please give us a date in the last 8 years when a newly written Computer MB book would not be out of date technologically within 6 months of its release. BSA is releasing a new Computer MB book in 2005 on schedule with its rewrite of nearly every MB manual over a 5 year period. If you have the personal knowledge and experience to write such a book...why haven't you? (This message has been edited by Bob White)

NWScouter While what you say is true in some councils it is no longer true in most. Most councils no longer bill the units as an option, but pay for the policy as a council wide group coverage. The greater danger in the situation given by docmobley is in loss of adult liability protection and not the youth accident coverage.

It is unlikely that will happen happen. Remember that the BSA accident protection is a secondary provider. That means it will pay for medical services due to an injury that is not covered by the scout's primary provider or that extends beyond the coverage of the primary provider. In rare cases that a scout has no primary provider the BSA coverage becomes primary. So in most cases the BSA policy ends up paying only the deductable. So for a couple hundred dollars the BSA is not going to deny coverage and risk a time consuming more costly lawsuit. A more likely scenario is that a scout in a lapsed charter unit becomes injured, the parents sue, and the Co and adults discover that they have no BSA liability protection and so have to defend themselves at their own cost and become personally liable for any monetary judgement against them. Again very rare and one that is likely to be unreported on this forum because the adult involved can no longer afford to have a computer or internet service .(This message has been edited by Bob White)

BadenP While it may seem at first glance that I am incorrect, further study proves I am not. If you look at the six experience areas of Venturing yoiu will see that one is "Service" and in the Venturing Activity Interest Survey one of the choices is "Fire Safety". A Venture crew can focus its activities on service as a Fire Safety and Prevention Crew(which by the way is 75% of the work of a Fire Department), Law Ennforcement crew (see the Guide to safe scouting regarding hand guns), or as an Emergency Response crew (medical aid etc.) Even being sponsored by a fire unit or auxillary is well within the parameters of Venturing. In addition, LFL's Career Exploring has a long history of having posts that focus on fire prevention and other emergency services. The difference is membership regulations. A Chartering organization that wishes to support the values of the traditional scouting program can elect to charter as a Crew. A Chartering organization choosing to support the membership values of LFL can charter a Post. So in fact, I correctly represented the chartering opportunities for such a unit in both the Venturing and Exploring programs. BW

So much for the value of rumors. or subtitled: Can I get you a little cheese to go with your whine. There is not a drop of TQM in Wood Badge for the 21st Century. If you want the right to criticize a training course at least have the knowledge that comes from actually taking the training. As far as the Communications MB it is very much the same as an advanced Public Speaking course my son had in High School. As for the Camping merit badge... what difference does it make if they list 6 or 60 options, you still only need to do two? So how was your last troop meeting? (This message has been edited by Bob White)

The Church must release their unit number to the council.

They can be either a post or crew depending on the wishes of the Charter Organization.

Call your local Scout Professional at the District or Council office.

So Backpacker, I have sent you some PMs that do not get returned. I was wondering as a Staff member on Wood Badge, what staff position did you hold and what was your favorite session to lead? You were interested in whether I attended Wood Badge, I am interested in your experiences as well. Please write soon, Bob White

Scouting does not promise to make a scout a leader or a manager. It promises him the opportunity to lead, something rare in a the life of a scout aged youth. And Scouting promises that an adult leader will help teach him the skills he needs to lead and the support he needs to be successful at it. It make take years for the Scout to apply and practice these skills before he becomes a leader but what he learned in scouting can offer a great foundation for that learning.

The Council has little to no authority over the structure other than making sure there are sufficient volunteers registered to fulfill the charter requirements. Where you want to turn is to the Charter Organization head or the Charter Organization representative. The council office can tell you who in your unit holds that office. BW

It really isn't a matter of who chooses, the scout or the counselor. The BSA has chosen. They have said that ANY of these activities will be accepted but no others. The counselor can teach information on all of them. The Scout can do any or all, as long as he does enough of them to satisfy the requirement. If in the coaching the counselor has an activity for the scout that satisfies the requirement thats great. If the scout does something different and presents evidence to the counselor that's great too.

First Welcome to Scouting. Second there is a good news/bad news/good news/bad news/good news, to this story. The good news is that many, many packs operate just fine, with lots of families, lots or organization, and lots of fun. The bad news is that as packs change in membership, leadership shifts and not all adults take the needed training to be able to deliver a good program. The good news is the training, resources, and support exist to help any pack have a great Scouting experience. The bad news is the leaders in your pack have obviously not taken advantage of these opportunities. The good news...is you. You have already stepped forward as a volunteer, you have evaluated the the situation and see the hurdles between your cubs and a good program. All you need now is the knowledge to overcome these hurdles and you have taken the first step to a resolution. You have asked for help. Here are my suggestions. Gather the forces. Get as many other adults as you can to follow you to training. You need to contact your district training chair and get a New Leader Essentials Training (2hours) and the Cub Leader Job Specific Training (3-hours) for every volunteer in the pack you can get to participate. Focus on your job. Do the best you can do in what your job is. No one can expect more of you. Be supportive. When you see others doing the best they can to do their role in scouting, let them know you recognize that effort. Have fun with the boys. They do not care about the adult problems in your pack. They care about having fun as cub scouts. Hang in their New Dad, you can be a life-long memory in the life of a den of cubs. You can do this! BW

What drudgery it is to be helpfull, friendly, courteous, and kind to others. To think that we should have to care enough about our brother scouts that we would return their misplaced possessions with nothing more than a smile, and a reminder that to "be prepared" you need to keep track of your tools. Oh how hearts do long for "the good old days" when an adult could tease, humiliate and embarrass other people's children at will. Alas where has society gone wrong that our fun should be spoiled for the sake of setting an example of doing a good turn for others.

Ditto to what Eamonn said. Where in Scouting does it promise that every boy will leave a leader? Even adults are not promised that in any leadership course. What the BSA promises is that every scout has the opportunity to lead, something not found in many youth organizations. And he is promised that his adult Scout leaders will help guide him and teach him the skills of leadership. The scouting program also promises the opportunity to practice and apply those skills. If that is not happening in the troop you serve then that is your problem to fix.

BP you asked if everyone can be trained to be an athlete. The answer is of course, Yes, everyone can be trained. Will everyone become an athlete, or perform at the same level, no. But that does not mean they cannot receive benefit from the training. At the very least they will better understand the skills of being an athlete. How is leadership and Scouting any different from that? I am surprised by your attitude concerning books and the real world. Weren't the books on sociology which you learned from created by the study of the real world. Did you not benefit from the recorded knowledge of others? Is there any science or discipline where each individual must recreate every experiment and experience of all the generations of scientists previously, or do they use the recorded knowledge kept in books to learn about current knowledge based on the past experiences of others. For a person of knowledge to belittle the information found in books seems unusually to say the least.