Bob White

Cajun Consider either getting comeone with the authority to make these decisions (the CC or CR) to deal this the cubmaster. Or get the charter organization institution head to make you the CR or the CC. Otherwise this really is out of your hands. A Wolf Den Leader has no business telling anyone they are not wanted in the unit no matter how many people may or may not fee that way. I applaud your efforts to get things back on course but if you are not the CR or CC on the charter then you are way beyond your authority to take the actions you are suggesting.

Semper, There is a big difference. I am addressing my concerns with the people have the direct ability to affect my concerns. The folks whining about the uniform are not. This conversation has carried on in one thread or another on this forum for years. Not one time has any of the complainers said. "I have contacted the national office and made the following recommendations...." All we get is "I don't like..., they should change...., .....costs too much, sob, sob sob." It's fine that have have an opinion, but at least make an effort to do something with it, other than whine to people who have no control over the change. It's like people who do not vote but complain about the government. If you are not going to make your opinion count then at least have the courtesy to be quiet.

Rotating leadership An element of the New Scout Patrol isthat during the fist year the patrol leadership rotates among the patrol members so that each scout gains an understanding of the responsibilities and leadership structure of troop operation. A troop that is following the BSA program will be having a Patrol Leaders Council (PLC) Meeting each month. The Troop Guide and the Patrol Leader for that month from the New Scout Patrol (NSP) attend that PLC to represent the NSP. Depending on the size of the NSP each scout would get to serve a minimum of 1 month as the PL and one month as the APL. Then after they earn First Class and either become a regular patrol or join a regular patrol they have a better understanding of the role of junior leadership in scouting, and are better prepared to begin service to the patrol or troop in an elected or appointed position.

Lynn, Since you are going to be a Webelos Leader soon, how long do you see yourself staying in the Cub Program? I ask because if you are only going to stay in cubbing for about another 18 months, and then leave, maybe a Boy Scout level or district service level program would be more valuable to you.

Something is amiss here I am unsure where it is. "the Council hit us with a bill that neared nearly a thousand dollars to cover nearly a hundred new sign ups that didn't exist in our Unit...." Does anyone else get a bill from their council for new applications? I have been a leader in 4 councils and none do that. If the application doesn't arrive with money then it is returned to the unit. If a charter arrives without money it is retuned or held until the money arrives. If a council did bill, one obvious explanation could be that data entry put in the wrong unit? I have seen packs get nearly one hundred new members. But what I really do not understand is how one would think this was done at the unit's expense? What did this cost the unit? Did the unit pay the bill? Would anyone actually think they had 100 scouts more than they knew of and pay such a bill? To think that the council did it for membership numbers is unlikely since they cannot process the apps without money. Profit is not the motivation since none of the application fees stay in the council. These knee jerk conspiracy theories speak more about our own gullibility and pessimism then of any possible BSA fraud.

What you can do is send your knowledge based constructive criticism to the national office attention Uniform Committee. At least then it would be read by people who actually are empowered to do something about it. But you were told that ages ago. Constantly complainng to a couple hundred people on a web forum who have no authority in the matter does absolutely nothing to cause any change in a matter that obviously is imporant to your personal ability to deliver a quality program. What counseling could possibly affect your behavior in this matter? Were you actually unaware that this forum did not determine the BSA uniform? Was it your belief that 3.5 milion people shared you belief and that they ALL of them participated here. Have you seen evidence that any posts here have been the direct cause of any changes whatsoever in the BSA program? Have your comments on the uniform improved the quality of scouting in a single unit? What did you think you were doing if not simply complaining?

There is no way around this. If you have plumbers butt in a scout uniform either you or the uniform are the wrong size. No one has said the that the book says the uniform is required. What the book says is that a uniform should not be mixed with civilian clothes. That it is better to wear no uniform than a mixed uniform. All I have said is that it is impossible to please everyone so rather than whine because you are one of the ones who isn't pleased just wear the uniform and do the work you agreed to do. Whining doesn't change the uniform or help lead the program.

He absolutely should have to remove the earring. Members of the bor should be able to determine personal jewelry and appearance. No earrings! Oh, and no timex watches. I hate times watches, they look cheap. If the scout doesn't have a good watch he should just take his watch off. And crew cuts. I like crew cuts. Every scout needs to get a high and tight haircut before he comes in. The shorter the better. I hate the way mousse looks in a boys hair. Flat tops go good in any occassion. Class rings, don't even get me started on guys wearing rings who aren't married. What is with all this jewelry anyway. Why in my day you didn't see boys with all this 'bling'. If boys don't look exactly the way I am comfortable with seeing them look then they can kiss their bor good bye. Rock and Roll?? Savages I tell you, they are all savages............... Please folks... just ask the boy about scouting and quit trying to control them.

"Don't you want to help BSA have the best possible uniform, based on the experience of its members? No. I really do not care if there are better uniforms available. I care about the program that is delivered to the scouts. I wear the uniform for what the uniform teaches. not because of how I feel about the uniform itself. I like this uniform, I liked the one before it and the one before that. I will like the next one. I will wear it complete because that is how you wear a uniform.

My apologies to Mr. Clements and others for using the word "fact". Please delet it and replace it with the word 'Truth". The truth is that the uniform shirt and slacks are not $50 each unless you are looking at the big and Tall cut and if you go to a store of that typw you will see that the price increas of the uniform is less that than of the increase of civilian clothes. The truth is that the cut of the clothing is not unique and if the uniform pants don't fit then either you are too big or you bought the slacks to small. The truth is there are too many variables in environment climate, and purpose to make one uniform to fit every occassion. And the truth is that with millions of people to cloth you cannot design a uniform to meet every possible whine. The truth is there will always be a percentage of complainers no matter what the BSA does in the next uniform change. BW

I used to really dislike the fit of the slacks and shorts. Then I lost twenty pounds and suddenly the uniform improved in quality. How can adults not grasp the concept of "uniform". Good grief! Do you remember the sight of the Houston Astros when they first took the field? What was that designer thinking? Did you ever hear the coach say well we will just wear the shirt and you can wear whatever pants you want. (actually they would have loked better the other way around) It's a uniform! The complainers and the composed all get to dress alike.

The scout can also provide evidence by bringing photos or video of the activity, finished reports, and completed projects. When and what would be appropriate will depend on the specific requirement and the agreed upon actions between the scout and the counselor.(This message has been edited by Bob White)

Greetings, I have been absent for several weeks due to a number of reasons. One was that I have started my own business (which by the way is going very well) and another is that I have been helping my mother to get her home of 46 years ready to put on the market as she is moving in with one of my brothers. The other reasons we do not need to revisit. I would like to thank every one who took the time to write me. It was very nice to keep in touch with you. Others have chatted with me or swapped messages on other scouting forums. I never introduced myself when I began here about two years ago (I think it was that long?) so maybe I should do so now. I am a scout leader in the Central Region, this is my 37th or so year in scouting. I was a Cub Scout, Boy Scout, and Explorer. I have been a Webelos leader, Cub Master, Pack Committee Member, Scoutmaster Asssistant scoutmaster, District Commissioner, Asst. Council Commissioner, Boy Scout Roundtable Commissioner, District Training Chair, chaired several camporees, Dean of Commissioners College, 4 Wood Badge staffings, I train at local, area and national levels. I have been a troop leader at a National Jamboree and my Star Scoout son and I will be on National Staff at the upcoming one. I really like, and really believe in the scouting program. I have found it works great if and when you use it. The better you follow it the better it works. I love to help volunteers who want to learn the program and give the scouts a real scouting experience, and have very little patience for those who want to wear the uniform (or part of it) but don't want to follow the program. It doesn't take long to figure out which is which. Some will be happy to see me post. Some will not. It doesn't take long to figure out which is which. It's not so much that I mind them ruining the unit they serve if that is what their charter organization is willing to let them do, its just that I hate to see them telling others how to ruin their units too. Too many dedicated scouters spend too many hours trying to teach the scouting program to have a few be able to lead them astray only because they own a keyboard. So thats about it. I will always answer any questions asked of me, and will always try to point you to the BSA resource that can solve your problems. Happy Scouting! BW

You are absolutely correct. I was out of line on that one. I retract everything except the part about you not having the authority to alter any part of the advancement process, and I offer my apologies on the rest. BW

No offense taken Vicki. I am very happy that Beaver is making this committment. He is good for the program.

BARTENDER!

I do not think unbiased thoughts can exist. But thats just my unbiased opinion. I am certain that there isn't anyone on this forum who can can answer all those questions. But I am in awe of the copnclusions you put forward based on your own answers to questions that you say you are seeking answers to. For instance "where we've got what appear to be conservative Christians running the organization to the point that there were able to move the headquarters to the middle of the Bible Belt?" Have you ever looked at map of the Bible belt? Dallas is at the far left end, not in the center. (Norther Alabama and Georgia are in the Center.) And the office is in Irving because the land that was donated to the BSA is there. Now if that isn't a right wing Christian conspiracy then I don't know what is. If you really want unbiased answers you are going to need to do some work on your end to come up with some unbiased questions. BW

Lynn, Do you know what conference you are interested in attending? BW(This message has been edited by Bob White)

Congrats Beaver, I have been impressed with your knowledge and use of the program. You have worhed your ticket well. I am sure you will continue to be an excellent scouter for years to come. Best Wishes, Bob White

Pants cost $50.00. Fact: $37.50 for Youth $45.80 adults they look bad, Fact: Only if you don't take care of your clothing. they fit badly, Fact: Only if you are built bad. are made of low grade material, Fact: Titanium does not flex well and last a short period of time. My uniform pants are 5 years old and are worn at least once a week. My civilian dress pants cost the same and last about 9 months. The shirt costs $50.00 Fact: $30.40 Youth $34.95 Adult looks bad, Fact: only if you are built bad is for inside use, Fact: So is my TV, does that make it bad? is easily ripped, Fact: What Cotton or nylon clothing isn't? Let's stop offering myths and fabrications. I have seen eight year olds whine less over putting on their Sunday dress clothes than adults here do over having to wear a scout uniform. You agreed to be in the program, Hundreds of thousands of over leaders manage to dress themselves properly without complaint. Gather some personal fortitude and go put your pants on. (This message has been edited by Bob White)

In our troop, there is an unwritten rule. A scoutmaster or a counselor may not work with his/her own son on a one-on-one basis nor sign off requirements for his/her own son." Your unit has no authority to have such a policy. The advancement policies and procedures are determined and controlled by the BSA it is not within the units to make any rules formal or informal. The units job is to follow the program If the mb or requirement is offered and being done in a group basis, then the scoutmaster or counselor can sign off for his/her own son mb, but he/she should defer the testing and signing off rank requirements to SPL, Instructor, or other scoutmasters for his/her own son. You cannot do this with merit badges, others may teach but only the registered and approved counselor can sign. Second, you ask someone who did not actually see or test the scout to sign for the person who did? There is a great lesson in citizenship! "No your Honor someone else actually witnessed what happened, I just agreed to sign a document saying that I had." If a person is qualified to test then they are certainly qualified to print their initials. We lose more scouts to bad leadership than to sport, girls and gas, combined. Let's get back to the actual scouting program and stop doing "stuff" in a scout uniform, (sorry, I meant "in a scout shirt", I forgot that some here don't wear the uniform.)

Before more myths are added to what has already been shared... From page 13 Of the Advancement Committee Policies and Procedures manual #33088D (I believe the E series is now available, so the page # may differ) "An approved merit badge counselor may counsel any youth member, including his or her own son, ward, or relative." It also says just in case you were wondering " There is no restriction on the number of merit badges a youth may earn from one counselor>" National has no policy??? Good scouting begins with trained knowledgable leaders. The BSA provides readily available resources to answer questions on specific topics, but as Mrs. Martin (my fourth grade teacher) used to say. "Books don't read themselves" Myths and opinions do not determine the BSA scouting program. You can find the BSA program through BSA training courses, and the resources materials of the BSA. Every Scout deserves a trained leader.

Leo I have send you a private message. BW

I have Private messaged you.(This message has been edited by Bob White)

CNYScouter, I have sent you a private message. BW