Bob White

anyone not being paid can work it. Where did that rule come from? There is no validity to that. Nothing in the project outline says that the Eagle candidate cannot give leadership to paid workers. BW "Every Scout deserves a trained leader" Baden-Powell (This message has been edited by Bob White)

Hunt, I am going by the the Boy Scout Handbook and by whay my responsibilities are in helping a scout to make ethical decisions. I would have a hard time classifying the Boy Scout Handbook as mundane material. BW(This message has been edited by Bob White)

If you are already the the meritbadge counselor for that topic then to set it as a future goal to achieve would not be apropriate would it? Perhaps a different goal would be more appropriate.

Tell you what lets cut the cost of the pywood by half. You would still lose A dollar on every unit you sold. Now if yo could get the stone for say 10 dollars you could make the same profit you make $9 on every sale. But how many homes would you have to go to to sell 21 knife sharpeners? And once a person had one what are the odds they would need another next year? Thats's why selling consumables is better. To make the money we make in the unit on popcorn he would need to sell about 700 knife sharpeners. I don't see that happening.

The Boy Scout Handbook says "obtains". Assigns is is totally different thing. This is not about the Power or Authority of a leader. This is about helping the scout to achieve. There is no need for a SM to be "in charge" of who a scout sees for a merit badge. The Scoutmaster assists the scout by making sure the counselor he is contacting has been approved by the council. We need more leader who are in the business of helping scouts and fewer who want to "run" troops. (This message has been edited by Bob White)

I made a call and did some shopping. A sheet of 34 plywood is 38.99 and would yeild 21 holders. a 2X8 stone is 18.99. Even excluding the cost of paint and glue as well as the value of time spend in construction, at $20 each you would lose $40 for every 21 sharpener sets you sell. A scout is thrifty, sell popcorn. BW

"assigns" is not an accurate description. The BSA does not say 'assigns'. Its says the scout "otains" the name of a qualified counselor. If you were to attend advanced training in this area such as the Advancement conference at Philmont Training Center you might have a better understanding of what is expected of the SM in this case. The SM repsonsibility is to see that the scout is seeing a registered and approved counselor. Approved means approved by the council advancement committee. You will see in the Advancment Committee Policies and Procedures manual that a registered counselor can work with ANY scout. So it is not for the scoutmaster to "assign" the counselor, it is for the SM to make sure the scout has the the name of a registered counselor. Whether the scout brings the name to the SM or the SM finds one for the scout does not matter, But it is not as if the scout MUST go to the one person assigned to for him by the SM. Much of Webelos is a transitioning from Cub Methods to Scout Methods. Only the Webelos leader signing the handbook is to help transition the scout from cubbing where any Akela can sign, to Boy Scouting where only a select few people in the unit may sign. Even in Boy Scouts' parents cannot sign ALL requirements. They are specifically limited to merit badges for which they have been approved by the council advancement committee. (This message has been edited by Bob White)

Just to clarify, If "phil" did not have all Eagle requirements complete by his 18th Birthday except for his board of review, then he did not get the eagle rank. even national will not allow that with out a severe medical reason filed in advance of his birthday. One "bylaw" down, can we have another please? BW

"I'm rather surprised that Scouting not only permits but requires that parents be elgible to act as Merit Bade Counselors for their children and sign off requirements." No such "requirement' exists in scouting. Who or what gave you that impression. The BSA specifically "allows" a registered and qualified adult to serve as a merit badge counselor for any scout...including... their own son or guardian child. Why is that a bad thing? Are you saying you feel qualified to teach your son things as a parent but you are not qualified to share with them knowledge or skills you have acquired that relate to a merit badge? As far as limiting a boys exposure to other adults...I don't see that happening. There are over 130 merit badges just how many do you think one adult could actually be qualified to teach? What is wrong with a parent sharing their enthusiasm for their career or hobby with their son? Isn't there a good chance that it could bring about a greater understanding of each other and help them to grow closer as a family? Do those sound like values that are contrary to scouting? As a commissioner Seattle this is an advancement element that you should know and understand (as are other advancement related policies and procedures). I am also surprised that you do not seem to have much information on the BSA accident or liability protection as this is one of the most frequently asked questions by new unit leaders. I am curious with all the hats you wear, what resources of the scouting program have you read related to your various scouting positions? (This message has been edited by Bob White)

We have always left it to the scout and his parents as to the where or when. I can remember only scout in nearly 30 years who had it done on a meeting night. All ther rest were weekend dates.

If attending Philmont is not financially feasible for you then speak with the local scouting professional. They may have financing available through the council, or they may want to have time to offer the opportunity to another scouter at this yar and invite you again when your finances allow. BW

In which of your roles? Is this someone you know as a commissioner, work with as an ASM, recommend for leadership as a committee member? You actually do not approve or manage another adult in any of these roles. So other than out of concern as a friend, you don't really have "authority" to tell them how you want them to live their life, do you?

Pardeon me tortdog but all I have suggested is to wear the uniform at the appropriate in an appropriate way. You on the otherhand have suggested that it can be worn with a pink fuzzy belt and slippers, that it must be worn ay all times, that the cccouncil has the authority to alter the uniform. All of which are incorrect. SHAC did not give you the correct answer they gave you the answer you wanted to hear. The correct answers are in the BSA handbooks and the Insignia Guide neither of which seem legible to you. Your on your own from now on. Best of luck. BW

Not without the scoutmaster's permission.

I disagree. The Guidelines say that the Varsity Scout leaders (youth and adults) should wear the uniform always. NO, it doesn't. you even admitted this in a previous post. What the book says is that "Varsity Scout team leaders should set a good example by wearing the complete uniform themselves and by encouraging each Scout to acquire and weare a uniform. Why do you insist to continue to make up a passage that does not exist? If you cannot look at a picture in a handbook of what the uniform looks like, and see that there are no pink fuzzy slippers involved, then the chances of leading a successful program seems unlikely at best. You asked for information and even after reading the handbook you refuse every bit of it. If your mind was made up in advance then why confuse yourself but getting facts? The concept of wearing the appropriate clothing at the appropriate time is apparently not within your grasp at this moment in time. Perhaps after you have gained additional experience and training you will develop in this scouting method. BW

You will find you have stirred the hornets nest on this one. There are basically two camps on this forum. One will say bylaws are for the most part a waste of time and largely not needed, and others who will happily share all the things they have created rules and regulations for. I am a member of the first camp. If your adults were trained and followed the scouting program there is little need for additional rules or bylaws. To prove a point I will invite you to share three bylaws your unit feels are needed and I will wager that they 1) Already exist in the BSA program, 2) Are in direct conflict with the BSA program, or 3)Are unrelated to the BSA program. Be warned some posters do not understand what a rule or bylaw is and will say things like "how will people know when the meeting is?". Information can be shared without making it a rule or bylaw.(This message has been edited by Bob White)

The short answer is yes. The bigger question is why would he? Ot sounds like better communications are need on everyones part. I would hope the SM would simply want to see that a plan is ion place and not feel the need to help make the plan. However I do not know what your SM's experience or skill levels are so it is hard to say if his actions are unreasonable or not.

Eisly, That really depends on the council you live in. In the majority of councils today that cost is paid now by the council for all the units. While there are still a few areas whose local finances do not allow this it is becoming a more common practice each year.

"The Guidelines do not require Scout socks or a Scout belt. Really? Then why did you list the scout socks when you posted what the handbook said? " Well, I took Bob White's advice regarding looking in the manual and here is what it requires: All boys are to be in uniform. The Varsity uniform consists of: BSA shirt* BSA shorts/pants BSA socks " The Varsity uniform is identical to to the Boy Scout uniform except for a couple patches and the color of the shoulder loops. If you find getting dressed is this difficult how can the rest of the program be managed? The uniform goes from shoulder to shoes. How often you get to wear it is irrelevant. How well you wear it is what matters. No one says you have to be in uniform to do your activities. Where the correct uniform when you are in an sdituation where the uniform is appropriate otherwise you can be out of uniform. You do not have the authority to alter the uniform as established by the BSA. So when it is not practical to wear th uniofrm wear something else. Just realize it is not a scout uniform. When we go caving we do not wear the uniform, and we don't call what we where the uniform. Are we no longer scouts? What is the big hang-up here?

If, OTOH, at that same meeting, you are in the parking lot doing lashings and a scout's head gets bashed with a timber and no scouter was around to prevent it (tree falling in the forest?) the parents could conceivably sue and recover damages from the BSA liability insurance, not the COs. That medical costs from such an accident would be covered by the BSA accident insurance, so there would be no need to sue for medical costs. If however the scout died from the injury and the CO or leaders were sued by the parents then they would be protected by the liability umbrella IF they had followed the BSA policies.

The BSA accident insurance also covers the deductible.(This message has been edited by Bob White)

Did you attend Wood Badge as a Den Leader or as a Troop Committee Member? You will not find a passage in any BSA resource prohibiting the SPL from attending. What you will find is a list of who attends and you will notice that the SPL is not among the listed. Few BSA resources tell you what not to do. That simply isn't the tenor of BSA handbooks or training. You will find for the vast majority of things the BSA only tells you how to do what you are supposed to do. Other leaders have chosen the path that you now face. If you do things contrary to the program (based on the fact that the handbooks don't say you can't do it that way, rather than follow the program the BSA lays out for you), you will find the self satisfaction that they have found. You will also find that you are a leader in a very small and ever shrinking troop, just as they have.

I am not convinced that this is something you should even be involved in. As a unit comiisioner your role is not to act as a leader in this unit. I would think your time would be better spent helping them to understand how to use the resources available to them to recruit and train the leadership they need, get them back on the right track, and evaluate the unit from arms length as a visitor. I realize this may not be the advice you were looking for but a lot of that I think comes from getting too involved in the workings of the unit rather than guiding the unit back onto the path. You have become so involved that you may have lost your objectivity. The role you seem to be taking on with this scout does not fall in the responsibilities of a UC.

Accident insurance is provided for any youth attending a scouting activity. This information is shared in New Leader Essentials the first course in the every leaders training continuum.

Actually it is far closer to the program that scout units are supposed to be following, and not much like the scouting program too many units tend to do today.