Bob White

Well for starters Barry, how about the Scouts assault on the US Army during practice manuvers? You suppose the Army fanatsizes that this movie is about soldiering as much as some scouters fantasize that this is a movie about scoutmastership or troop operations? It's nice that there is a movie about positive adult characteristics that uses Scouting as a story element. But let's not over do its actual relevance to Scouting.

It is no more rare today then it was back in the 50s. People of outstanding character or few and far between in any organization. If everyone was a Mother Theresa or a Lem then we would not make such a big deal of them when we saw them. If Lems existed in mass quantities in Scouting then they would not have needed to do a fictional story. "Follow Me Boys" was no more about good Scouting or good Scout leadership than "Mr. Scoutmaster" was. It was just a fictionalized story that used the Scouting program as scenery to hang a story on and that's all. This belief that in the 50s Scouting was filled with Lem like Scoutmasters is a fantasy. The thought that Scouting was like the movie is just wrong. As a movie it is very sweet, as an example of Scouting then or now it's pretty bad. The charteristics in Lem that are admirable can be found in any number of fictional characters in hundreds of films and thousands of story books as well as in some real life people in and out of Scouting. Do not expect life to mimic a Disney movie or visa versa.(This message has been edited by Bob White)

It's the troop committee and troop leadership's responsibility to provide a program that grows the Scout unit. If they are not providing a program that draws new members or adequately motivates the current members to invite others to join, and if they are not activiely marketing to potential members, then that is not the Scout's problem or their responsibility. Tagguy's problem is not a youth member problem. It is a unit program problem and adults are responsible for the quality of the unit program. He will not find a solution by blaming the youth members.

Have you considered simply sharing the passages from the Guide to Safe scouting and the Venturing Leaders Handbook that say only that you must have co-ed leadership on co-ed overnight activities. Some open communiocation would probably resolve this issue very quickly. However...If the committee chair wants to extend that safety precaution to all of the unit's activities then your correct response is "Okay".

The BSa training videos and courses were never designed to "attract" people that match the fictioal character of the scoutmaster in the Disney film. Attracting and recruiting people of the right character is r=the responsibility of the chartering organization. Folks need to come to the BSA with the appropriate chacter. The BSa training courses are meant to explain the program not change the character of the participants. The vast majority of the folks I have met through scouting are genuinely good people, but the old axiom applies, "send a pig to training and you will get back a trained pig." Or, in the lingo of then yechno world "GIGO" Garbage in-garbage out. Send a person with the wrong characteristics for being a scout leader to training and you will get back a poor Scout leader with a "trained" patch If you do not feel that your local scout leaders have the correct character for the role then you need to look to your community and your charter organizations for a solution, not a BSA training film or a Disney movie.

When did this become the Scouts' problem?

I sure hope everyone understands that Follow Me Boys is just a Disney movie and has no more relevance to Scouting than Disney's The Computer Wore Tennis Shoes has to computer science. It's just a fun movie with a touching story, but it was never a training film for scoutmasters...then or now.

Let's remember that Advancement is a Method of Scouting, and that the Methods of Scouting are tools used by adult leaders to achieve the Aims and Mission of Scouting. Scouts do not need to "care about" advancement. They already care about adventure, and the skills of scouting are taught, practiced and applied as they participate in adventure through Scouting. Youth respond to recognition and positive reinforcement without needing to "care" about advancement. If Scouts in the unit are not advancing the problem is likely that the the adult leaders do not understand how to build the requirements into the activities so that by participating in the program a scout will learn and be tested on the requirements. What we need is for more adult leaders to understand and care about the Advancement Method...the problem is not the Scouts.(This message has been edited by Bob White)

Because a charter organization only has one CR even if their CO uses multiple scouting programs wearing the silver tabs is perfectly legitimate.

Once your son has the signed approval of the rep[resentative from the benefitting organization, the unit leader, and a representative of the unit committee then the project can be sent to the council/district advancement committee for approval, your unit's "project advisor" has no authority in the matter. Ignore him and send the project to the council or district advancement committee. Your local Scout office can tell you who to send it to. Good Luck to your son. BW

What mskes Scouting unique are the program Methods. If the leaders of the unit do not know or do not use the program Methods than it is no different from any other youth program.

If you consider that in a troop that follows the scouting program the New Scouts, even without the Scout Badge being a rank, will likely earn two to three ranks the first year. That being the case, meeting a 50% advancement goal should not be difficult.

It is unlikely that you could show that their activities in this matter were "substantial".

In what post did anyone level blame at anyone for the result of the election. I have read through the posts I do not find anyone placing blame, but merely citing their concerns over what the results will mean to our country. This issue of blame is a contrivance to create an argument that does not exist.

Please identify the Middle East leader who was quaking in their boots on 9/11. We had several presidential elections before then and it did not seem to deter anyone did it? I doubt that any poster on this board would even recognize a would be-caliph seeing as how there has not been one since 1924. But facts aside, how would anyone here know what an Islamic leader thinks about our presidential elections? To say that those who dislike the selection of Obama as the next preident are whining is as silly as saying that those who have posted who are pleased with the results are gloating. Neither is true. Scouter-Terry posted he was pleased with outcome, it seems not only fair but very American that the those who disagree are allowed to voice their concerns in a open and lawful manner. Once an election is over it is the civic responsibility of the opposition party to provide an alternate view and options to the rule of the controlling party. Let's hope that the republicans do so with more thoughtfulness and respect for the office of the President than has been shown by democrats the past few years.

Do Ithink hat the woman who thinks Obama is going to pay her mortgage represements everyone who voted for Obama? No, but I y=think she represents a growing population of people who believe that the governement is there to do that for her. She believes that because the liberal poilticians have created that dream for her and she believes it. I also agree that the Obama campaign far outdistanced his opponent in his ability to get his message out. Do you think that ability was due largely to the fact that after both candidates agreed to limit their campaign budgets that Obama lied and took money he said he would not take and McCain kept his word and limited his funding? I do respect the office, I know I respected it more than Clinton did, I think I probably respect it more than the man who will soon hold it. We will soon see.

Socialism is not a solution to injustice. It has not resolved injustices in other countries that have been ruled by socialism and it will not solve injustices in the USA. Controlling peoples income through government regulations will not better anyone's life other than the politicians. It will only give government the power to determine how needy they can make you, and to what degree they can control you by being your source of income and welfare. A woman was just on the news that said she voted for Obama because she is fed up with the Bush administration because "they could have stopped Hurricane Katrina from coming but they didn't". Obama has a difficult time ahead of him. His supporters are expecting him to change the course of hurricanes, pay their mortgages, and run their cars on sunshine for free. God help us all.

Coming from Obama's home state I can safely say that a lot of people bought the sizzle and not the steak. Had it not been for Cook County (Chicago and it's suburbs) Obama would have lost his own state. he was elected by the people who bought the promise of having their mortgages paid for them and the dream of not having to work to improve their lives because the government will take money from those who are willing to work and give it to them in trade for their vote. He has no Senate experience. Obama spent more time campaigning as a presentential candidate then he spent in the senate. As a Senator here is a list of the the things he accomplished for our State. A dynamic leader? What has he lead? Look at the election results by counties. In most states where Obama won he did not win in most counties in the state. The results are consistant. Look at Illinois, Indiana, Ohio, Florida he won in the urban counties where large populations of low income or no income voters were promised welfare in trade for a democratic vote. If welfare worked then why, after the decades that it has existed, are there still low income or no income families in this country? Liberal politicians cripple people into depending on the handouts of government. They see them as a vote that can be bought, as as long as they are kept needy they can be bought election after election. What you will see in 4 years that there are more people on welfare, not less, because that is how liberal politicians know they can control the vote. Obama may well indeed change this country at a very fundemental level. And we will all be the worse for it.

We do indeed live in an amazing country, and one that we we have reason to be proud of as citizens. But we have elected a man who says he wants to "fundemantally change" who and what we are as a nation, and that should concern anyone who understands the uniqueness of our nation in the world since the birth of our Constitution. Obama wants to "redistribute wealth". I heard a a woman being interviewed on the radio a couple of days ago who said that once Obama is elected she will no longer have to pay her mortgage or make a car payment ever again. Do people really believe that is truly going to happen. Should it really happen? Do we really want or need a government to tell us how much money we can make, and who we should share the fruits of our labor with? Obama says he wants to establish "a civilian national security force thats just as powerful, just as strong, just as well-funded. As the Armed Forces." That statement alone is frightening in a free society. People who have immigrated here from communist countries must be having deja vu of the very elements of their lives under communism that made them flee to the USA. Obama's other plan is to bankrupt the coal industry if you are to believe what he says. So if somebody wants to build a coal-powered plant, they can. 'Its just that it will bankrupt them. Prepare to see your cost of energy skyrocket. Or, do you believe that he will make the top 5% of income earners pay for your electric bill as well? Just how much of your lives do you think the top 5% of income earners should pay for you. And what incentive will you have to ever better yourselves? Liberal lawmakers have crippled moderate and low income families in this country making them dependent on the government, making them dependent on keeping liberal lawmakers in office. It is a form of civic extortion. To believe that Obama is only slightly left of center is politically naive. To think that the effects of this Presidency will only last 4 years is short sighted and unsupportd by history. Roosevelt's welfare state lasted far beyond his presidency. Once you make people feel entitled to money from the government you can never take it back. The government is not supposed to be a means of personal income. We are not children who need to be taken care of by a parental and controlling government. This is a presidential choice that I think will be regretted for a long time to come. In my home state there was a referendum to hold a new constitutional convention for the primary purpose of creating a recall process to remove a very unpopular govenor. While I dislike the governor I voted against the convention. The reason is I want the voters to take the voting reponsibilty seriously. Rather than be reckless as citizens and relying on their ability to remove the polictian later if they decide they don't like him. I have said before that all elections (whether for the senior patrol leader or the President of the United States) are popularity contests. This should prove it if nothing else does. We are a country that has become lazy as citizens, wanting only to hear what we want to hear. Selecting politicians that offer offer us handouts and pretty words, rather than electing people who will protect the things that have made us the land of freedom and opportunity that so much of the rest of the world has tried to achieve. This is not a man who likes the United States of America. This is not a President who wants to see the people or our country succeed. We have had bad presidents before, we have one again. (This message has been edited by Bob White)

It does appear that Sea Scouting has been once again separated from The Venturing Program. How this will effect either program is stiil toe early to tell. At this point in tiome the only difference is at the upper administration level. But as the newly seated National Commodore gets settled in and as the new president and professionals get their roles established I would expect a certain amount of changes to take place is for no other purpose than job jusification. It is not unusual for new folks to make changes just to show that they are doing something during offices hours. There is no way to tell if this is a good thing or a bad thing until the changes are actually made. Until then nothing at the unit level has been altered and its business as usual aboard ship.

Hi 914_SPL Congrats on your new position. As far as if you did anything wrong that's is really hard for anyone to say for sure without having been there. Hopefully your Scoutmaster was able to give you clear and helpful feedback as that is what he or she is supposed to be able to do. There are a few tips I will give you. When teaching a skill, teach to those who want to learn. as SPL coach the patrol leaders on how to lead their patrol members not you as SPL or the presenter. AS far as sending the scout home let the Scoutmaster deal with that, your role is to help Patrol Leaders to succeed. You can help coach patrol leaders on how to control the patrol, you can even give positive counseling to the scout in private. As a trainer one method to head of boredom is in the method you use to present the topic. Involve the scouts as much as possible. Give them hands on active things to do. This can even be done in safety training. For instance have life jackets on hand to show the scouts different types and the proper kinds for canoeing and how to fit them properly. I saw a great presentation on re-entering a canoe and on righting swamped canoes that was done indoors at a troop meeting using canoes sitting on innertubes to recreate the action of the canoe on water. Another way to get the interrupting scout to quiet down is to include them in the demonstration. I would talk to your scoutmaster and ask him or her if they thought you handled the situation well and ask them for suggestions of other ways that you could have dealt with the situation. Good luck in your term as SPL. BW

Should we restrict people from being leaders simply for not being a parent or not having a child in the program? No Should we limit leadership to to one kind of person? Absolutely? Units should exclude people unwilling to follow the scouting program.

Beavah....continuing to post about merit badges and advancement outside of this thread writes "The requirements of a merit badge do not need to be learned or earned in order, eh? True Beavah, but no responsible instructor teaches safety second?(This message has been edited by Bob White)

In a mistitled thread in another topic area Beavah states "One way to control the environment is with Patrol Method and Youth Leaders, eh? Not for regular MB counseling necessarily, but for pursuing a badge as a patrol or a unit." But that was not the topic of the discussion was it Beavah? Nor was it related to group merit badge counseling in any way. Lets get back to merit badge counseling in groups, and for the sake of the discussion we will stay with canoeing. The first three requirements pertain to what? Safety, in fact half of the canoeing requirements are safety related, But to suggest that a counselor should take a scout and throw them into a potentially dangerous activity without first covering safety is irresponsible. What LisaBob's kayak instructor does with adults is unrelated to what a merit badge counselor should do when working with other people's children. Your scenario of a shotgun instructor who before anything else oputs a loaded shot gun into someones hands is another example of irrresponsible behavior, not of good counseling.

GW You have misunderstood the role of Roundtable and how it achieves its purposes, and the RT Commissioner's role in managing those goals. That's Okay because you are not the RT commissioner or the person to whom the question was directed. I am sure should you ever have the need to fill that position then the questions I have asked will have more relevance for you once you have taken the training for the position. In the meantime you might consider waiting until the discussion progresses a little further, and you may find your questions answered in the process.