Bob White

Ok Jenhky just because I am dying to hear your response. What was the BSA supposed to fire Smith for? Remember at the time he retired the BSA was not informed that he had committed a crime and in fact no charges had been filed against him. Tell us, if you were the employer, and as far as you know your employee had not committed a crime, WHAT exactly would have have fired him for?

The results of the hurricane throughout the golf coast is horrifying. As the coverage continues you can barely begin to understand the extent of it all. Our prayers and our support go out to all involved. Now a few random thoughts. A lot of those "looters" are folks trying to survive. They are trying to find food for their familiy, clothing, containers to try and save their belongings. Stores that would usually be available are abandoned. Many of these folks have no idea how they will survive now they do not know if help will come or when they will get it. And although help may be available, they probably do not know that. We have far more information as to what resources are available for them and where they are then they do. They have no communications to learn what we know through the media. I agree that some are are actual criminals stealing guns and ammunition, electronics etc. But where do you put them if you arrest them? Are more dead bodies going to help them in any way. The law enforcement officers' main concern is safety and keepping people alive, not killing more. As far as living near the ocean, you can't escape nature. Everyone is close to some natural disaster waiting to happen, hurricane, tornados, earthquakes, flood, no one is really in a "safe place" when it comes to nature. It's not a matter of if something will happen its when and how bad. This is the worst storm to hit the gulf coast in a generation. Who is to blame for New Orleans being so close to the water? Who else..THE FRENCH! They had the nerve to build a primary sea port by the water. What were those foreigners thinking? It has stood since before we fought Eamonn's family and sent them packing. You would of thought when we bought it that someone would have mentioned that it leaked! Sure they were told to leave but not everyone had the ability to leave. If you have never been to New Orleans there is a large population of really poor people just like in any large city. Telling someone to leave does not give them the ability to leave. Go where? Get there how? Current estimates are it will take by 3 to 6 months to get the flood waters pumped out and nearly that long before power will be restored, and most will not get to return to see what is left of their homes and businesses unitl then. By then many neighborhoods will be so totally uninhabitable that who knows when things will be able to be rebuilt there if at all. There are no simple problems in New Orleans and there are no simple solutions there either.

WOW!you're good Prairie Scouter...I didn't even see your lips move.

Prairie, it is interesting how you singled me out when several others have asked the very same question.

You are correct, I did not see the word 'openly' I apologioze. I would have given a different answer if I had. As to why they feel that way, would you be comfortable saying that "the decision is made by representatives of BSA chartering organizations, based on the goals and values of the organizations that use the scouting program"?

(This message has been edited by Bob White)

Merit badges completed by scouts in 2004 in subjects related to Hobbies (non-REQUIRED) coin collecting 5,062 dog care 3,977 gardening 1,866 Home repair 5,866 Indian Lore 32,477 model building 2,892 pets 7,498 radio 5,394 stamp collecting 1,394 As compared to American Business 917 American Labor 686 Bugling 710 Entrepreneurship 1,006 Plant Science 637 Journalism 1,232 We seem to have less interest in business and bugling.

Untrained leadership is again our big problem. Your swell advancement guy doesn't know his job. Get him a copy of the Advancement Committee Policies and Procedures manual.

So what exactly do want us to do with story? It doesn't teach a skill, it won't make a good skit. It can't be sung on a hike, It won't make a good ceremony. It's too long for a scoutmasters minute. How do you use this information to improve the quality of your next scout meeting for the Scouts you serve? What is it you want these posts of yours to achieve? What exactly is your role in scouting that is benefitted by these news flashes. (This message has been edited by Bob White)

But Hunt what you said is untrue and inaccurate. There is nothing that says that homosexuals cannot be in scouting, and you we know from a poster here that there are homosexuals in scouting. If this were purely a morality issue we would be asking every person for proof that they weren't homosexual. We don't even ask

You misunderstood wha I said madkins, I was helping ed know how to answer scouters when he didn't know whatto say. I would be glad to lend you some advice as well. hypothetically of course. Coworker: So, Mad, how long ya been doing this Scout thing? Madkins007: Oh, since 1994 when my son entered Tiger Cubs. Coworker: Wow! So, tell me, what does the BSA have against homosexuals? I mean, we know that homosexuals and pedophiles are different situations, and I know you have some rules about groups of 3 or something to protect people. So what's the deal? Me: Well you really have three questions there where you you like to start. Coworker : well what's this thing with Homosexuals. Me: What "thing" do you mean" Coworker: Well the BSa doesn't allow homosexuals in the boy scouts. Me: Thats not true. The fact is there probably are homosexuals in scoutng, but we don't ask and we ask that they not say. We don't want sexuality used as a political tool. we are trying to teach values and character not be a political platform for social issues. Coworker: Well that makes sense but what about child abuse if you say there are homosexuals on campouts how do you protect the kids. Me: Well thats another misconception. There is no evidence that adult homosexuals are any more likely to commit sex crimes than someone you would consider hetero. But safety has always been a big part of scouting and we have special training and special procedures we follow to help insure scouts are safe in scouting and in their everyday life. Whether its being safe with fire, or wood tools or rock climbing or protecting themselves, scouting is as safe a place for youth as ever. Coworker: That's great. I remember when I was ascout. we had a great time, I hope to get my son in when he gets old enough. Me; Well let me know when your ready I'd be happy to help you two get started. All it takes is to tell the truth, but first you have to be willing to learn it.

No one is suggesting getting rid of everyone, only the one(s) who are interferring with the success of the program.

But, I wonder if the majority of the members would sit down, look at the big picture, and wonder what the big deal is. Keeping in mind of course that the largest group of members are between the ages of 7 and 10 1/2 years old. The second largest group 10 1/2 to 15. I am perfectly happy to train them to organize a meeting and a campout, but run a corporation? Keep in mind that this corporation is operated primarily by charter organizations and their contracted staff, not their volunteer program leaders.

No, that is not what I said. I said that athiests for example should have the same rights as any private organization. They should be allowed, and they are allowed, to have their own organization and set their own membership, and accept or refuse whomever they chose. Unfortunately the freedom I am happy to defend for you you do not want the BSA to have. But none of that has anything to do with this thread. This man's scout unit is losing its CO , shouldn't you be doing your happy dance?

One of the grounds that a scout can use to request get appeals board of review is the refusal of the SM to grant a BOR. The Scout should contact the district or council advancement chairman.(This message has been edited by Bob White)

Then why do you not support the U.S. Constitution's protection of freedm of association? Why do you get to pick and choose which get which rights get respected?

I am all for the local school boards being able to decide what values they choose to have shared. Bob White

Even salis need to be trimmed from time to time to work effectively. Scouters who are willing to develop and learn and search for the way back on course are not the folks who I refer to as anchors. Not every adult should be in scouting, and certainly not in every position in scouting. To be honest we have scouts to train and develop, that's what we are here for. If a person is unwilling to learn and follow the program then no amount of coaching and mentoring will turn him into a worthwhile sail. If he or she won't learn and embrace the methods and the procedures of scouting, cut thenm loose! They will steal your time and energy from the people you are there to serve, the scouts.

That's absolutely right Merlyn..EQUAL rights, not special rights. If they want to form a private organization for anyone who shares their beliefs and values they have as much right as the BSA and its members to do so. If the want to set their own membership regulations in that private organization they have everyy right to do so. And I and millions of others will defend their rights, because those rights are for everyone and we all have an obligation to respect and protect them. You make a very good point there. For the record Merlyn that bit about the PTO was one of the first tactics tried 25 years ago by the ACLU and the courts through it out. Packsaddle, the distribution of the assets are up to the individual COs, the pack is not technically moving. The CO is not renewing as a chartered parttner and they are ending THEIR scout unit. I am sure that the local staff will do everything they can to make any transitions as easy as possible.(This message has been edited by Bob White)

While am am not yet convinced if you are truthy worthy of such a momentous honor I can tell you it takes a few more days than that to get the paperwork through. But one never know what can happen out on the waters of the Big Lake. NOW STOP YER WHININ' ME BUCKO AND GET BACK TO WORK!

We train commissioners in how to indentify good scouting program and keep them strong, and how to identify those in trouble and offer assistance. We also teach them the structure of the BSA and how the pieces fit, as well as the various resources available. One of the important things we remind them of, especially when they are new and inexperienced, is that if you do not know an answer or uncomfortable in giving an answer to just be honest with the person and say "I don't know how to answer that,let me find a better resource for you". Until you become more comfortable explaining the roles and responsibilities of the BSA national council you could direct their questions to a more experienced commissioner or to the local scouting professional. I hope this helps.

Scouting again is correct, public schools are just that 'public' the laws governing their operations are a totally different set of laws than those regulating private organizations such as the BSA. you cannot hold up against the other as far as applicable laws.

Side bar: Youth protection is not a part of basic trainig. It comes under Supplemental training. For a Wolf or Bear Den Leader to eran the Basic Training recognition they need to complete New Leader Essentials and Den Leader Specific training. While I agree they should certainly complete YP neither it nor Fast Start are a requirement for completing Basic Training. Please return now to the regularly scheduled discussion.

My point though john is that den leaders have enough to do in their den without having to carry the workload of a the pack administration as well. The unit as a whole well operate better if everyones focus on their specific job. Thats one of the reasons that the training is divided up the way it is. Den leaders don't need detais on pack operation they need to know Den operation and just enough of the pack to know where they fit in. Den leaders should not be running family camp and trying to lead the Den at the same time. The skills you mention can be learned at their appropriate level at POW Wow, Roundtable, and Outdoor Training for Webelos Leaders and those are fun to do as well, and they are geared toward Den Leaders.(This message has been edited by Bob White)

BALOO really has nothing to do with being a den leader. The Den Leader is already the workhorse of Cub Scouts so its important that we only make them carry the load they need to. Lots of things in the world are fun. He asked what would be appropriate to do in his role as a Bear Den Leader. Taking his Den to the park for the day would be more appropriate than going to BALOO for the day, for his specific job in the Pack.(This message has been edited by Bob White)