Bob White

What rule are you speaking of? A rule that controls Service stars? No such rule exists.

Hi Dean If it isn't about ethical decision making and personal integrity then what is it? And....never good ones, and No, he says he doesn't.(This message has been edited by Bob White)

Steve, once they put the scout uniform on and identified themselves as scouts from a specific Pack they made it a scout unit activity, and as such must adhere to BSA policies and regulations...even if the event itself is not theirs. And while they do not appear to have violated any Safety Regulations, if they identified themselves as Scouts when raising the money for their leader then they did indeed violate BSA policies regarding fundraising and uniform usage.

Nothing in the story says they violated any rules of the event. Had the operators of the event felt that the scouts were unsafe then they had the authority, the opportunity, and the responsibility to simply say that they could not participate. It is obvious that that was not done. That is not relevant however since the accusation on this forum was that they violated BSA policies. When in fact, if you take the time to look at a very short video, you will not see any BSA policies being violated. In fact you will only see some being adhered to. Your background as a lifeguard though admirable is irrelevant, as you do not need to be a lifegurd to know or identify elements of safe swim defense and other BSA safety policies. You will however need an understanding of the event, which you will only get if you watch the brief viseo. You can make a comparicon between what you see and what the BSA policies are and you will notice that there is no evidence of any policy transgressions. Convincing the event operators of letting the scouts keep their shirts on is neither a Safety violation or a violation of any point of the Scout Law.

Gunny, you really need to view the video, you have made some totally unsupported comments about an event that you admit you have no information on even though a video is available to you. Also you have yet to identify a single BSA policy that violated.

Now John, you know full well there are no patch polce. There is simply the uniform regulations of the BSA and the personal integrity of the individual and how it affects the choices they make.

Here's a wild idea Dean, Since you now live in a different council pay THEM your OA membership and correctly wear the OA flap for the council where you reside. Then you would have no reason for wearing the membership recogonition without actually being a member in good standing. I know it must sound crazy to you, but.... It's not about rules are rules...it's about making ethical choices based on the values of scouting.

SctDad, Maybe the answer to your question is that you are incorrect about your premise, and I am trying to get you to reconsider what the real problem is. I am not the only poster who has tried to explain the real problem to you.

One wonders why mom is telling you rather than telling the local scout council? And why you are telling us and not telling the local scout council?

I have no idea how we got off on this track but....No one said that they cannot go to community groups for funds Nike! Only that it is against the BSA regulations to raise funds for anything other than materials and supplies. He cannot raise money to pay for labor as part of the project. There is nothing that says the labor must be volunteer. As long as the scout can show that he is the one leading the project and not someone else, he can have anyone working on the project he wants. Anything done in connection to the project should be a part of the project workbook. If he takes a donation to pay for labor I could see how that would be considered a violation of the regulations governing the projectand could be an issue. Returning to the thread topic, there is no minimum number of labor hours that the scout must put into the project or that the project must take for completion. As long as he spends sufficient time to demonstrate that he led and completed the project.

SctDad I think you underestimate the intelligence of the parents in the pack, and you over estimate the difficulty of preparing a meals for a weekend outdoors. If your parents are really that incapable then the pack could always supply the cooking heat, I would bet your parents know how to put food on heat to cook, even if they somehow don't know how to start a fire? That way even if the kids don't get direct input into the meals at least their parents know what they like. You will find menu planning and food prep works best for small groups of 2 to 8 people.

Okay let me see if I understand SctDad. Because there might be Webelos Leader who was not been trained in time for an event on the calendar that he knew was coming, then the Cubmaster has to choose to go to a Webelos event rather than take the training he needs or wants, instead of just having the Webelos leader take the Den camping once he gets trained. And because of that, you want the Council to change an event date even though you arent going to either event anyway? Did I get that right? If I got any of the facts wrong please let me know what it was.

The candidate cannot raise money to pay for labor as part of the project. He is only allowed money to raise money for materials and supplies.

The only value in estimating labor hours is for the scout to have a way for calculating the number of days and the size of the work force. It is also used by the BSA as an easy way of explaining the amount of service that Scouting provides communities through the Eagle Advancement requirement. As a way of determining the value of a project or the ability of the candidate to apply leadership skills to the event, the number if hours estimated to do the project is a worthless and foolish measurement. The BSA states that there is NO minimum number of hours. Which means that no one, not a unit leader, not a committee member, not even the distrcit or council can use a hour measuremenmt to determine the appropriateness of a project. What the BSA says, and this is the only time allotment it uses, is that the project must take sufficient time for the candidate to show the use of leadership skills. That is what the scoutmaster, committee and district advancement committee need to be focused on...the use of leadership skills, not the number of hours. If the Scout estimates 80 hours, and the project takes 60 it is not a worse job of leadership, and if it actually takes 100 it is not a better job of leadership. To use the estimated hours for anything other than budgeting time and workforce is illogical. I can only guess that people who make such odd recommendations have little or no experience in actually planning projects. Stick to the BSA requirements, they are what they are for a reason.(This message has been edited by Bob White)

Den cooking for family campout's is often not practical. Its family camping, the idea is that the camp as a family and the Pack provides program activities. If you want to do food as a group do a dessert. What are you talking about SctDad??? At no time did I mention any rules or regulation on this topic, why do you blurt out something as unrelated as that? You want help, I'm offering help. Family camp out family meals, Webelos Den Campout, Den Meals. Troop Camping...Patrol Meals. You want easy and effective then take the advice to follow the program recommendations. (This message has been edited by Bob White)