WAKWIB

When I've seen some bad apples reach Eagle, they are usually the son of the SM or CC. Even if they are not, it's still obvious that they have been given a pass on many requirements along the way. Hopefully, situations like this are the exception and not the rule in the OP's troop.

Jim Terry was the Scout Executive in my council (Heart of America, which covers the Kansas City metro area) a few years back. He currently is the Assistant Chief SE/CFO of BSA National. Not sure if it's exactly the same man on your friend's list, but seems like a good fit. Mr. Terry seems like a pretty decent fellow and did a pretty good job while in our council. A lot of our volunteers (myself included) thought he was one of the better SE's in recent memory.

I'm really beginning to question the value of scouter dot com when such a non-starter of a topic ends up in the Program Forum. At best, it should be damned to the pit we fondly call, Issues and Politics.

The way you folks can put words into people's mouths is nothing short of remarkable. I doubt it would do much good to help supply a correct Christian and biblical context to certain topics. I've seen that attempted before by others to no avail.

I agree, Pack. At least with what you say about the incendiary tone. It wasn't there, yet. Even this topic thread is quite tame compared to dozens I have seen in the past.

I'm wondering if this opinion has any merit or significance? http://www.adfmedia.org/files/BSALegalRamifications.pdf

1. I've been following this group since May and I don't have a clue as to the denominational affiliation of the 50+ people involved in its formation. 2. Purity refers to sexual purity that all Christian churches uphold to a certain extent, even those who have a more liberal view of homosexuality. 3. There are no "classes" of membership. You are a card-carrying member or you are not a member at all. 3. There is not a mention in the Statement of Faith about divorce.

Digi. Not a thing you said is your last statement is factual.

The topic is old news now. I posted a link to TL's website on the weekend of their convention, to their press release. It was up for a couple of days and had some comments. It vanished. Repeated the process and it was up for less than a day, I think, and disappeared.

Right now the spotlight seems to be on the churches that are recently dropping BSA and considering TLUSA, but I think there is an even greater potential market in those churches who have never sponsored a Scouting unit or haven't for a very long time. That is a variable that may be greater that even TLUSA expects. There seems to be a genuine surprise among TL leadership about how this thing has gained momentum. I don't think that it's all about the gay issue, or even all about Christianity. I think the sense of this being a new, grass-roots, reimaging of scouting has a lot of appeal. Honestly, that is why I find it so fascinating. I've heard people cuss and discuss various problems with Scouting for 40 years. Everyone has a big idea of what they would do if they were "king of the forest." Now we can see what happens when folks get off the pot and concentrate some creative effort to make some of these changes.

When there is more revealed about TLUSA's actual program and organizational structure , it might be interesting to have a topic where there is some comparisons made between their operation and the ours in BSA. There may be some good ideas floating around in a new and forming group that we could borrow and modify to make our program better. Hopefully if that more positive and constructive topic is introduced it will not get deleted by a moderator or the site owner. Yeah, I know this topic that survived the purge about TL being "confused" about who they are makes it easy to take shots at them and makes us real Scouters feel so much better about ourselves. I do think a more objective study of the nuts and bolts of a potential competitor could be more constructive and helpful to us as we do our jobs of serving youth.

I would definitely buy part of your argument if this was 50 years ago. Now it's just an easy excuse to paint with a broad-brush.

It's a pity that you folks make a bee-line to racism as soon as you hear the word Christian. I guess you all don't get out much.

Part of it is necessary. Part of it is the corporate model that the word "trained" looks good. My company constantly adds to the six sigma/lean manufacturing training stuff we do every year. Most of the principles taught in this training are ignored in the real-life operation of the company. In fact, I would say it has done absolutely nothing to improve the way we do business and our profitability. We are in a slump and it's strange that since this big push for six sigma started about 5 years ago the only result that I have seen is, laid-off employees, reduced hours, and small wage increases that couldn't even come close to being a "cost-of-living" increase. The training is only as good as it's application. There are people in our company whose position is dependent on reinventing and repackaging the training. It's become a business unto itself. The same thing may be true of BSA.

I appreciate where you are coming from, BD. I live in an ethnically diverse community myself. 50 years ago it was not so, but it has made an interesting transformation since the 90's. But let's set that aside. There is nothing to suggest that Trail Life will automatically become a "mighty whitey club." Well, unless you make the logical fallacy that Christian equals white-only. This new organization want the Chartered Orgs to own this project completely...not some board of corporate suits. Surely you understand that there is an abundance of churches in the black, Hispanic, etc. communities that could easily sign-off on TLUSA's statement of faith and values. There is no "white only" stamp across the charter agreement. There is absolutely NO barrier! What BSA did in the past, in terms of color segregation is done and over. Trail Life does not intend to revisit or repackage that unfortunate practice.

Gee, I don't know, Basement. The way you go on sometimes, I was under the impression you lived in the most racially charged and divided city in the world. Just sayin'....

Since it said he was something of a historian there had to be something on the internet by or about him. Finally found his history site here. http://www.internetscoutmuseum.com/about.html

The headline writer for the Independent seems to pour more into what the Pope is saying than what he is really saying. “You ask me if the God of the Christians forgives those who don’t believe and who don’t seek the faith. I start by saying – and this is the fundamental thing – that God’s mercy has no limits if you go to him with a sincere and contrite heart. The issue for those who do not believe in God is to obey their conscience. Sin, even for those who have no faith, exists when people disobey their conscience.†He seems to saying what the Bible says in that our conscience is the light of God within each person. That God holds people accountable for how they have responded to conscience even if they have not heard, understood, or sought out the Gospel of Jesus. He speaks of God's mercy but has included the condition of seeking that mercy with a humble and contrite heart. Most Atheists, as opposed to those who have not heard or sought the Gospel, are quite different. They REJECT the claims of church or scripture. They maintain that God cannot and does not exist and therefore would never seek him with a humble and contrite heart. Why would they even be concerned about a Heaven they are certain does not exist? The Pope knows the difference between those who have doubts, fears, and lack of knowledge as opposed to those who despise and revile the very mention of God. Nothing in his entire letter gives a free pass to atheists. He speaks of the primacy of faith in the crucified and risen Christ and the believers obligation to represent Him in the world with humility and respect to others so that those see and hear our words and actions of faith will respond with a willing heart that seeks Him.

Concerning the program of Trail Life, one press release points to this gentleman: "John Burkitt Considered by many to be one of the greatest Boy Scout historians alive today having compared, studied and analyzed every Boy Scout, Cub Scout and Scoutmaster handbook ever published from the original Baden Powell’s “Scouting for Boys†to the present. John has served as the primary editor and author of the first edition of the Adventuring handbook that will be used in the Trail Life USA program." (my note: Adventuring is the program for grades 9-12) His name rings absolutely no bells for me. I was curious if any of you folks have heard of him.

The link to the home page is: http://www.traillifeusa.com You will find a chart of the different age programs here: http://www.traillifeusa.com/resources They have not published most details yet, but is should be coming out in the weeks ahead.

Membership fee for adults and youth= $26/year

When our Troop started getting intentional 10 years ago about sending the best and brightest Scouts "downstairs" to serve as Den Chiefs to the Pack, it was a total game-changer. Happier Cub leaders, and a super high crossover rate. When that high crossover (boys and parents) occurs Troop membership levels stay constant and Troop program improves which also makes us more attractive to folks from other Troops and Packs. Recruiting doesn't seem to be an issue for us.

They don't appear to be confused at all. They have a clear and publicly available membership policy, which seems to be pretty inclusive in regards to youth. Their Statement of Faith which is signed off on by adult leaders and the CO is clear and precise, as opposed to a vague Declaration of Religious Principle. Yes, that Statement is firmly Christian in the sense of that word as it is understood by catholics, protestants, and evangelicals. Their program was "stormed and formed" by a group of about 50 experienced Scouters with a strong sense of traditional Scouting. I heard in an interview that these folks worked nearly every night since March via virtual campfire on this project. It's not going to be another Awana or Royal Rangers. Organizationally, they will be very lean and focused on direct service to their members and units. They have generated a very energized and excited base of potential members. It is clear that, for a particular market, this could be a very significant and successful youth-serving organization.

Trail Life is developing a 18-25 coed program, so if any "former venturers" want to let their freak-flag fly in a different camp, it will be available.