vol_scouter

CAFE standards should be abolished. Let consumers decide the efficiency and gas mileage of their automobiles. If the government wants to change the gas mileage or efficiency of the autos, then increase the tax on gasoline. The Big 3 respond to their market. The GM electric car did not sell well. Their cars now have as better gas mileage than their competitors but the public WANTS to buy foreign cars. Part of the problem I have with a direct bailout is that the government wants some control. It makes since to say that the money is not to be used for bonuses and raises especially for the management but other controls allows our government to slip further into fascism.

packsaddle, I generally agree with much that you say. However, the federal government employed MIT (in the late 1980's I believe) to do a study on why German and Japanese companies were dominating the marketplace. The results have much to do with the loss of most of our manufacturing. The study concluded that the biggest problem was the structure of the American stock market. The stock markets here are only interested in short term profits. Germany and Japan had a longer vision for their countries (I do not clearly recall how but I think that in general the analysts valued long term results more than short term). So the Big 3 would have lost value to go after long term market value and was essentially forced to build SUV's etc. The article was as I recall in Scientific American but it has been a while. We certainly see that strategy in advertisements and in investor's advise. Until we learn to value the companies that are going after long term marketplace dominance, American companies will always be at a disadvantage. We seem to be at opposite ends of the political spectrum but I totally agree with your comments about conservatives. Many Republicans in the House wanted to abandon Sarbayne-Oxley (sp?) accounting rules which has led to much of the problems and to let the banks fail. I do not know what is the right way but not all conservatives agree with Senate Republicans and the RNC.

Beevah, As you, I always try to buy goods from American companies. I have looked at foreign car companies before. The attitude of the sales force has been that they are doing me a favor by selling me their car rather than I am helping them by buying the car. Needless to say that any interest in their product was killed by their attitude. A Toyota dealer said that I could only test drive their convertible after I had decided to purchase it!! I bought a Sebring convertible that was a great car. I agree with you to some extent. My concern is that when competing with China in particular but many other nations that all of our industry will go the way of textiles, electronics, etc. I think that the free trade ideas work when trading with similar countries such as Canada and the EU countries. It doesn't work with China and Mexico. I am not an economist and didn't stay at a Holiday Inn last night but I do not think that we can have a long term sustainable economy unless we actually manufacture goods. Without manufacturing, we will loss things to sell. We are doing a worse job of funding research (Bush has shifted funds from research to the wars). This is important because what we are mainly selling is technology. If we do not have enough basic research to drive technology transfer, then we have nothing to sell. We cannot survive as a consumer only. As you have noted, if the treasury market collapses then most of this discussion is moot. This is a scary time. I understand that the last several times that the US has sold large treasuries that the only countries buying them was Japan and China. If they decide not to show up, we collapse. Today, if we collapse then everyone else goes with us which encourages other countries to buy our treasuries. I think that we agree that we need to maintain the automobile industry, it is just the way that they emerge. As to buying foreign cars, it seems to me more important than ever to buy products from US companies to try to keep our fellow citizens in their jobs. While buying cars or other products that are made here is better than a true import, the profits still go overseas. I have more than once watched a news program that claimed that Toyota doesn't pay US taxes because of the way they structure the several companies that they own, they always show a net corporate loss!! This was in the 80's and 90's. The report infuriated me. Apparently, many foreign companies are able to hide much of their corporate profits. A scary time. Most of the people who caused this mess are still in congress and they want us to trust them!! Unfortunately, most of them are my fellow baby boomers - we are a disgusting generation. Both parties are so interested in their social agendas that they do not try to do what is best for the country. Hopefully, the generations coming up are an improvement because the greatest generation is essentially gone from power.

My solution would be a little different. I do not support a direct bail out for the Big 3. However, I agree with others that we make precious little and cannot afford to lose the auto industry. Our country is not capable today of building a large scale nuclear plant. We could not fight a WWII kind of war any longer because we do not have the infra-structure. So I would propose some sort of a hybrid bail out where the Big 3 are allowed to go into chapter 11 bankruptcy. This would allow restructuring contracts and debt. In the meantime, the government could assure the public that the corporations will remain in business and that warrantees will be honored. That way sales will not suffer as much. I feel for Beevah. I have owned 6 Jeeps and 3 GMs with no significant problems in any of them. My son owns a Ford F-150 also without significant problems. IMHO, part of the Big 3's problem is that baby boomers have to rebel against anything that was their parents so they do not want to buy American cars (This is not in anyway meant to be an affront to Beevah, he did buy a Ford). I know many baby boomers who have terrible problems with their foreign car but will not consider buying an American car. It is disconcerting to me that we have such a small industrial base. I do not believe that it is in the best interest of the country that the Big 3 go out of existence. Beevah, do you think that at this time anyone could borrow the capital to take old Big 3 plants and retool for hybrids? If gas stays cheap, do you think that hybrids will out sell larger, more powerful, cars and SUV's? Just some thoughts. The congress is disgusting - both parties.

NJCubScouter, I understand your frustration in the outcome of the Florida vote. It was a sad comment all of the way around. I was not aware of any statewide recount but I will not argue with you on that topic. There were certainly a lot of disagreement on the method of interpreting the votes. Gore made a clever decision to ask to recount only some heavily democrat areas rather than the whole state. It is ironic that recounting the entire state may have provided him the result that he desired. As to the SCOTUS decision, how can you interpret telling the state court to follow state law as judicial activism? Instructing courts to follow the law is activism? I believe that allowing the Florida state supreme court to make up laws usurping the state constitutional roles of the executive and legislative branches is activism. Happy Thanksgiving all!!

Beevah is right, both parties and several presidents from both parties are the cause of this debacle. It is also due to my generation, the baby boomers, who are the greediest, most egocentric, and selfish generation in the history of this once great country. Our parents generation was the greatest, we are the worst. The things that the young baby boomers decried - corporate greed etc.- have become our trademark. Unfortunately, much of the price of the foolishness of baby boomers will be born by their children and grand children which is only to be expected for such a self-centered group. Social security is going broke. Instead of trying to fix it now (which would cost boomers some of their money), the boomers only demonized Bush for making a proposal and they countered with none. If all the boomers get to SS age prior to the crunch hitting they will not have to pay (they hope). The founding fathers had a great idea in our government. They were concerned that politicians would want too much power so they made checks and balances. The founding fathers never thought that the congress would be so willing to give up its' position of power to the other branches of government. Congress wants the courts to take care of all controversial social issues and the executive branch to take the blame for everything else. It is the congress not the president who is charged with developing the budget (actually it is the house). Yet the house asks the president to submit a budget that they can blame as needed. Things like stem cell research, abortion, capital punishment, homosexual rights, etc should be addressed by the congress who is silent. The congress only hands out money to get re-elected. The congress is disgusting on both sides of the aisle.

NJCubScouter, The votes were recounted more once including the New York Times. None of the recounts resulted with a Gore victory. Before you bring it up the SCOTUS merely instructed the Florida Supreme court to follow Florida state law and not to make up laws as they go. As to counting ALL of the votes, most states do not count absentee ballots for the POTUS unless the vote difference between the two is less than the total number of absentee votes. So ALL of the votes have not been counted for years. Bush has been a poor president and a disappointment to all. However, having suffered through Gore as my senator, I doubt that he would have done as well. I do not know about Kerry.

Merlyn, The economic models are poor at best. So I would certainly trust climate models more than economic models. The Kyoto protocols would rapidly change the energy use in this country. If you buy consensus opinion on global warming then you should buy consensus economic opinion as to enactment of the Kyoto protocols. Even most democrats do not support Kyoto. Clinton did not push for enactment of Kyoto and commented that the protocols would be economically ruinous. Certainly, if the most pessimistic global warming proponents are correct, moving aggressively to a less 'carbon based' energy economy would be wise. On the other hand, if the earth is starting a cooling trend, the move could be economic disaster. I am not convinced that we are experiencing mankind caused global warming but I would support reasonable measures to decrease fossil fuels. upon purchase but cars should also be evaluated by efficiency where many SUV's aFor example, develop nuclear which is a ready source of base load electricity. We should then try to carefully determine if some of the activities using fossil fuels could be converted to electricity. We should phase out long haul trucking and change to rail systems. In large cities, we should encourage the use of mass transit. Cars should be rated on efficiency as well as gas mileage. Certain kinds of cars should not be banned but as in phasing out long haul trucking, gradual increases in gas guzzler taxes should be implemented. These can be implemented over many years so as to not suddenly disrupt the economy. Constructing nuclear lants also could help us to regain the capacity of heavy industry.

Merlyn, That is correct, climatologists try to make predictions and compare their predictions to what the climate actually does. I agree that in my book, that is science. I was just pointing out that the definition you were applying to GW would not allow climatologists to be scientists. So GW's definition is a valid one. Scientists would all prefer to perform controlled experiments but astronomers and climatologists among others can merely observe and make observations. If they can mathematically model their science, they can sometimes make testable predictions with their models (how a supernova explodes or there will be a thunderstorm next week). So GW has a definition of science but does not describe the ideal science experiment. Once again, the climate models though improving cannot predict what is going to happen in the next decades. Some but not all models seem to point to worsening warming. However, the earth has been cooling for the last ~18 months (from my memory) with climate models now predicting an impending ice age. We do not clearly understand solar cycles and their impact on the climate models. To ruin our economy in order to decrease warming that we are not actually causing is folly. We will only know the correct answer retrospectively but I cannot support ruining our economy based on our current data and models though I could be wrong.

Merlyn, The climatologists use computers to solve coupled non-linear second order differential equations to model the weather. Their predictions are reasonably accurate for a few days but beyond are not much better than the Farmer's Almanac. They do not conduct controlled experiments because they cannot control weather variables. By your definition of science, the climatologists are not doing science - they are collecting data and making observations. I believe that they are scientists who are working in a difficult field that is in its' infancy. It is neither certain nor clear that man is influencing the global climate though man clearly does affect local climates such as Phoenix, Arizona. Whether or not it is wise to significantly disrupt economic systems to decrease the burning of fossil fuels is something that will only be known retrospectively. In my mind, that is a reason to shift but not lurch to less energy intensive societies. The evidence required to scuttle the US economy is not yet available. The left is not serious about climate control as they say. When they ask to get rid of instant-on electronics, ask for wind-up clocks & watches, quit using all private jets, quit using limos, ask to get rid of indoor football and make all football and baseball games without lighting, then I will take notice. Until then, they are only picking on groups that they do not like - owners of SUV (though Al Gore is often in a Surburban though that could be required by the Secret Service).

Merlyn, Many of the world's top scientists did not believe that atoms existed at the turn of the 20th century. Einstein's paper on Brownian motion convinced most that the atomic theory was correct. The Greek idea was that any given material, i.e. element, could be divided just so many times before a smallest subdivision was reached. It is similar to the atomic theory but not the same either. GW has the gist of the scientific method. He only leaves out control of the experimental conditions.

Merlyn, GW may have picked a poor example but he is right that science has accepted explanations and facts that were eventually found to not be correct. Global warming due to the effect of man is not a proven theory at this time. There is a consensus opinion in favor of that point of view. However, a consensus opinion is what is done when the evidence does not make the conclusion clear. Part of the problem is that determining the global temperature is difficult to define and to measure looking for an average change of a degree centigrade or so. The measurements are not adequate at this time. Also, Mars has also been warming which means that the sun is the cause of some or all of the warming. Most experts feel that increased solar warming does not account for the entire observed increase. So while many scientists believe that global warming has a large component caused by humans, it is not proven and therefore not known at this time.

The movie was based on the book: "God and My Country", by MacKinlay Kantor, The Curtis Publishing Company, 1954, Library of Congress Card Catalog number: 54-5543. As is often the case with a Walt disney film, the movie bears little semblance to the book. The book is great and speaks to the importance of the program as well as painting a realistic portrait with some failures as well as successes. I highly recommend the book though some tissues might be needed at the end. Addall has an excellent search engine for out of print books.

I agree - there are no outdated skills. I would bring back Morse code and make swimming a required MB. Tracking would be good to bring back as well.

Buck Toms is my council's camp. It has ~700 acres on Watts Bar Lake. The weather is 80's - 90's in the days with often 60's at night. Usually, there are late afternoon rains though recent years have seen a severe drought. The lake is a TVA lake and is part of a navigable system from the Mississippi to Knoxville where the confluence of the Holston and French Broad rivers forms the Tennessee river. Nice waterfront on a cove. New campfire amphitheater overlooking the lake. relatively new mess hall. We like to have visiting troops and have several each year. We also have a primitive camp, Pellissippi, on Norris lake. It is ~300 acres on a gorgeous lake. It does not offer a summer program but is a great place to camp. Good for flat water canoeing. Just below Norris dam is a nice river, the Clinch, for some mild whitewater canoeing. Put in below the dam is ~5 miles from the camp. Take out is at Clinton, Tennessee about 12 miles from camp. The council website is: http://www.bsa-gsmc.org/ Good luck!

Lisabob, The airlines seem to routinely file for bankruptcy without massive lay offs. I do not want the big 3 to fail but they would break all union contracts with bankruptcy. They cannot continue to make cars in union shops with considerable legacy debt and compete with non-union Japanese cars with young workforces. My experience has been that the big 3 get a bad rap for quality and, unlike many countries, most Americans are not loyal to American brands. As to the quality, I watched a PBS car show ~10 years ago. I had a new Jeep Grand Cherokee and they were testing the same car. The Jeep had a sticky rear gate/door that was fixed with a few drops of oil. Other than that, no problems. It out performed its advertised numbers and was discussed in glowing terms. That matches my experience after my family has owned 6 Jeeps, all have been great without major problems. Anyway the show then tested a Toyota. The first one had a bad transmission and had to be replaced. The second one had multiple problems including the windshield leaking like a sieve. The car did not perform up to the stated performance standards. Despite the excellent performance of the Jeep, it was panned and consumers were warned not to buy it. Whereas, the problem plagued underperforming Toyota was highly recommended. The recommendations were totally bogus. Yet, the conclusions appeared a few days later in the local paper as a wire report. The big 3 need to succeed in the long run. As a country, we need to re-develop or industrial strength. As citizens, we need to buy American.

In general, I oppose a bailout as well. We should have listened to the House Republicans on the bank bailout - return to the prior accounting laws and let the market adjust itself (which seems to be happening anyway). That said, I am very concerned about the loss of heavy industry. We are able to make less and less. The US cannot manufacture a large nuclear power plant - we do not have the industrial capability! Our competitors such as China and Japan can. China is planning on building 45 nuclear plants in the few years. With the democrats and Obama opposing nuclear power, we are not likely to build any plants in the near future. We will never become energy independent until we embrace nuclear power. Can we have a successful economy in the long run if we have no heavy industrial capacity? I think not. We should not have allowed Japan to unfairly undercut our steel industry. We are doing the same with autos. I see nothing but decline for our country.

Packsaddle, No, that was not good. The news media does a poor job of finding out what is going on. That is because they have a large component of entertainment and most are ideological. That said, who do you want to judge who is lying? You clearly supported Obama. Would you want someone from the religious right to be judging Obama ads? Many ads were distortions of the truth (as were many of McCain's) and could therefore be called a lie because it wasn't 100% true. No matter how well intentioned, no one can be fair and unbiased in the judging process. Dirty tricks have unfortunately been one of the hallmarks of American politics since the founding of the republic. The recent campaign was in my opinion one of the cleanest in recent history - a tribute to both Obama and McCain. By the way, I agree with you that athletics in the colleges and universities is far out of control. I would like to see drastic cuts and I have season tickets for my university's major football program. In fact, I would propose that schools would be totally barred from all recruiting. All athletes would have to enroll in the school of their choice and tryout for the team. If a student does not academically advance to the next year of school, they cannot play that year. Get most of the games OFF of TV - the money is destroying the programs.

Packsaddle, Although the economy, the war, health care, etc. are all important issues, the are all meaningless if we allow our fundamental rights to be eroded. Only Fox news on TV provides some semblance of balance in its' reporting but much of the coverage is fluff. Radio often provides the only dissenting view of the main stream media who consistently lean to the left. Silencing those voices is a serious attack on our freedom. Obama has just announced that lying should not be allowed in elections! That is the very speech that is protected!! Who is to decide what is a lie? Clearly, what I say about my opponent is true (if distorted) but my opponent is lying about me. Bush started an assault on our basic freedoms and Obama seems to want to continue the assault. If we lose our freedom, all the other issues are unimportant.

Air America would only have to carry those shows if they receive complaints from the public. In general, liberal talk shows have much smaller audiences than conservative shows. So the radio stations under the fairness doctrine dropped all talk shows to avoid the problems - both responding to complaints and being forced to carry less profitable shows to meet the doctrine. The result of the fairness doctrine is to squelch dissenting voices. It does not serve the public interest which should be to openly examine as many points of view as possible. The best way to marginalize subversive organizations is to freely allow the nonsense to be heard. People will reject those ideas. If the ideas are seen to be 'taboo', people find it more attractive. The democrats only wish to squelch dissenting speech which is antithetical to the constitution and our ideas. This is dangerous to our freedom.

Knots are one of the most important elements in the early parts of scouting. All boys see knots as easy until they attempt to tie one only to fail! FAIL at something. Our society tries avoid failing for children even though it is an essential part of life. They fail but with some effort can rather quickly learn. That is valuable in that the youth fails then learns to succeed. If the troop is doing its job, the youth will be retested in a week or two and will likely tie some knots but fail at others. This teaches the importance of practice. These things are all valuable especially in these PC times.

Rythos, Those are intersting numbers but what do they mean? I have no idea of the average foreclosures in your unspecified time period. I would assume that it is more but by what percentage? So often numbers are thrown around that sound good or bad but contain meaning only when in context. My understanding is that the actual foreclosures are moderately increased (I just did the same thing by using a non-specific term). Most of the foreclosures are said to be persons who in years past would have never qualified for loans. Our congress is corrupt since they forced this upon the banks. The sad thing is that almost all of the worst culprits are still there! They tell us to trust them to manage the mess that they caused. We deserve what we get for re-electing them!

gwd-scouter, I think that you are right about likely retirements in the next four years. One of the news stations was talking about this and said that Scalia is in his 70's. He might be replaced if he developed health problems or if Obama is president for 8 years. That would also significantly change the court for years to come.

First, I do agree that Dobson is doing some fear mongering. Clearly Obama will appoint activist judges who would likely overturn the BSA case. So while fear mongering, it is grounded and would likely happen at some point in the future. What is both sad and frightening to me is that Christians are being labeled as extremists. By saying that there are certain things that are wrong, Christians are being reviled. These are the same values that have given us freedom and prosperity. These values have allowed this country to expand man's knowledge, help to abolish slavery, free millions of people from tyranny, and provide a country with religious freedom. Now, those same values are under attack. The left acts as if these issues are new. I have seen mainstream Christians and Boy Scouts go from being revered to reviled. Our society is going in a terribly wrong direction.

Beavah, I had a few slides on lightning strikes presented to a Wilderness Medical Society (WMS) course. I will try to find them. The WMS has a great set of slides on CD. Here is their description: The Wilderness Medical Society developed an educational lecture series on 11 wilderness medicine topics: Accidental Hypothermia, Biodiversity Loss, Traveler's Diarrhea, Field Water Disinfection, Frostbite, Hazardous Marine Life, High Altitude Medicine, Orthopedic Trauma, Wilderness Dermatology, Venomous Snakebite Management,and Wild Animal Attacks. For our special Spring promotion, we've compiled all 11 topics on one convenient, space-saving PowerPoint CD. Each lecture contains more than 70 colorful images and a lecturer's study guide (printable from the CD). The lectures were written by expert members of the Wilderness Medical Society. The information presented is informative, factual, and up-to-date. These lectures are ideally suited for a broad range of audiences including practicing physician, residents, and medical students. They also may be useful for instructing pre-hospital personnel, guides, emergency technicians, and other wilderness users. Note: Purchased individually, this collection would cost $643.50 for members and $841.50 for non-members. Pricey but very good.