Vicki

No coin. Uniform regalia - necker, hat, nametag (plastic, insert name card). Brought white t's which then got a press-on logo for Class B - whoops, activity. Tied our own Turk's head as one of the first activities. Bought a wonderfully designed ceramic cup as a memento - course logo, number on one side and patrol logo on the other. The Wood Badge necker, woggle, beads and framed certificate were part of the price of the course. Our TG gave me a great box with a bear on top to hold my beads and woggle. One of my top life experiences, Vicki C-12-04 Bears amble...

OGE, don't forget Marthur the oth when pondering the bwue londer. Vicki

Congrats Kristi - what a wonderful accomplishment! Have to admit, I wouldn't be have been able to put my beading off 'til June - what fortitude! Y'all squabbling critters create a buzzing in my ears - gives me a real irritable feeling. Vicki (and a good ol' Bear too!)

Ummm, haven't read in this thread where consideration has been given to the cub and parents who are leaving the pack? Have you actually observed this cub being picked on by the "bully"? If the Pack Committee/Cubmaster/Den Leaders do get the courage to actually handle this situation appropriately (as in approach the bully's parents, try to work it through) the cub and his parents need to be encouraged to stay and try to be part of the solution. Vicki

Well, it'll be interesting to see what transpires when the policy finally burps out. I'm sure my friends in the Tribe of Mic-O-Say in the council just west of us will be waiting with bated breath (VBG). Vicki

Hmmm. I really don't even know where to start. I have had a lot of corporate style management training (Dale Carnegie, Franklin Covey, etc.). Wood Badge was the best. It took lots of stuff from the best b-school classes - SWOT (strengths, weaknesses, opportunities and threats) analysis, learning curves of group behaviors, job sequencing, just as examples - and put it in the BSA context. Also, the intensity of it is a test all by itself and unlike anything I'd done before. There is a point during the training that sets apart those who can step outside of a situation and observe it and those who can't. One of our patrols failed miserably and it was not pretty to watch. I'm not sure I approve of it exactly, but it is part of the program and it works. Of course, the opportunity to act really foolish is not to be missed! We were told early on that we were not acting appropriately for a Bear patrol - well, talk about permission to test the limits! Party on, Garth!! Just a few thoughts, in no particular order. Anyway, it was a mountaintop experience for me. All of my fellow Bears were from different districts within our Council and it was really great to talk Scouting with them and hear how they did it. Then to observe their troops at each of our beadings (although now that I think of it, one did it at his RT). Vicki (C-12-04)

>The best way we found to avoid this problem (regardless of the track)is to run each car in every lane so that nobody can claim that they got a bum deal due to the lane they were assigned. Lisa'bob > This is the way we do it. We also have a wood track - we just keep fixin' and patchin' and it goes on. Would the dings and lumps that a track has to take over the years be as easy to fix with an aluminim track? Vicki

Like just about everything else in Scouting, it depends. In this case, it depends on the CD and the TGs and how they want to handle it. My TG was pretty serious about the written word and I've heard some of my fellow Bears had to do some pretty extensive re-writes before he accepted theirs. Guess I got lucky:

I would definitely have adults along simply because of the unforeseen possibility. One other thing - even on your private property (as opposed to a scout camp) - I would call the local police department and let them know what is going on. I know the neighbors are probably far away and across the creek, but you never know when somebody is going to see or hear something that concerns them enough to call the police and, as we know, noise carries exceptionally well. Knowing ahead of time will allow them to respond appropriately if that happens. Vicki

Another question along this line - I perused the national website briefly and couldn't find the reference, but our council requires that the Scoutmaster be trained before he/she can approve scouts' applications to NYLT. Not that I'm going to try to argue my council out of it, just curious, is this a National policy? Vicki

Just as a point of information, our troop does Boards of Review pretty much on demand. If the adults are available, and the Scout is willing to approach the available adults to ask them to serve, then it gets done. In our troop's mode of operation, we consider that to be not only advancing the Aim of advancement but also that of adult association in that the scout has to set up his own BofR. Now, if we just didn't have so many qualified adults associated with the troop as MB counselors... Vicki

Couldn't help but laugh at Calico's post - "slap a rainbow sticker on his forehead." Tee hee. And my son has both of the t-shirts you mentioned. My MIL bought them for him - not sure I would have, but there ya go. Vicki

Kahuna, are there other graves/places of significant interest in this cemetery? You've mentioned two. Or could this be made a generalized project to standarize and improve the ability of people to find their way within the cemetery? With this approach, it's obviously not maintenance nor is it specifically BSA. Some combo of the above? Vicki

Let's not deal in absolutes - as in never allow the boy to call home. If the parent is appropriately primed as to the boy's condition, the call can get the boy over the hump a lot faster than leaders. Of course, I'm one of those "with your shield or on it" parents - similar to the father who said "throw up and get back to camp." But if my son's scoutmaster hadn't allowed him to call from JLTC on Thursday and I found out about it when he got home, I think I would have been pretty upset. As it was, the SM called, told me what was happening and what my son's condition was and I talked him in from the ledge (so to speak). Pointed out that this was what we'd talked about before he left, ran through some visualization exercises with him (think of yourself getting your shield in two days) - a personalized pep talk that only mom could give him. It's a judgment call - there are no absolutes in this situation. Another thing to keep in mind, as much as it goes against the grain to say this, they aren't our sons. If a scout is screaming, begging, etc., to call home it can verge on the abusive not to allow it. And if the parents are the type to drop everything and come get him, even after all advice to the contrary, well, so be it. Changing tack here - I agree with the poster who suggested keeping them hydrated. Going to summer camp and now NYLT, I can say that this is often overlooked in brain function, fatigue and general health. Vicki

Merry Christmas, all! I've been practicing taking people at face value during this holiday season and not trying to attribute motives to them that may not apply. This has made life somewhat more peaceful for me. I may keep practicing even though it may have made be appear less intelligent at some times and more intelligent at others:

Hmmm, well, DH was Tiger Cub leader, then CC. I was not into Scouts. Son 1 crossed over, about a year later I thought, "hmmm, he seems to be having fun." Asked if he'd mind if I tagged along on a couple of campouts. Bought the shirt (then the rest) and that was it. My shirt is starting to look like I must have become a real Scouter somewhere along the way! Son 2 is crossing over and the three of us will be gone for a week this summer together. I'll be home overnight, having done NYLT the prior week. I know it's been good for me as a parent. Good for our relationship as we approach 25 years in April? The jury is still out on that. He's at least resigned if not entirely supportive. DH is retiring as CC when Son 2 crosses over and does not intend to cross over with him. Says he'll get some golf in while the three of us are away...Son 1 is losing interest though so once he makes Eagle maybe DH will have a golfing buddy. Vicki (and a good ol' Bear too)

>Fourth, changing the Indian Lore MB from a craft merit badge to one that requires an extenstive study of an area's local tribe. And, to move from Ordeal to Botherhood, it would be a required merit badge.> I LIKE this idea. The Indian Lore MB as it currently stands does seem a tad lightweight. Without delving too far off-topic though, we have a difficult time making that Ordeal to Brotherhood transition. I wonder how adding a requirement like this would impact that. Not that I object, I understand and appreciate the reasoning, just a thought. Vicki

Well, the last four out of five posts in this thread were well worth reading. I do enjoy it when a poster proves the opposition's point so tellingly. The arguments do get tiresome and do have a very chilling effect on any attempt to exchange ideas and information. Good for you for taking a stand! I also applaud you for giving the parties enough rope to hang themselves and not reacting too quickly. Vicki

I had a very simple ceremony with my troop. My WB scoutmaster was there, gave a short talk on the meaning of WB, did the beads, on with treats! Which is why I'm posting this - along the axe in log idea, I made a chocolate rollup cake, iced it to look like a log, wrapped my nephew's small camp-ax in saran wrap and sunk it into the cake/log. Put it on a tray and used leftover icing and chocolate shavings to make the tray look like the forest floor. Wrote our WB course (C-12-04) in icing on the tray. Looked kinda nice, if I say so myself, not to mention tasty... Vicki (an energetic 8-clawed bear)(This message has been edited by Vicki)

We do it like emb021 - my sister held the sash "over my head" - in quotes because she's 5'5 and I'm 6'0. Once called out, she escorted me back to camp to get my overnight stuff and to the council ring for the beginning of the pre-Ordeal ceremony. My older son was called out at the same time. My nephew plays one of the two major parts of the ceremonial team so the whole thing was really special. But your lodge advisor would definitely be your resource for this one. Vicki

BW wrote, "Vicki, Don't you think that people who don't sell popcorn telling all of us that the BSA councils should stop doing because they don't like it, is far mor divisive and far less informative than anything I said?" BW, what I'm reading here is some kvetching, some reasonable debate, some interesting points. Different ways that have helped people to succeed and reasons why some just have a really hard time with it. Some of which would be good points to consider if we were doing a market study. Which we're not, we're sitting around an electronic campfire. What I don't hear is a general hue and cry to stop selling popcorn. Certainly nothing to merit the disdain evident in your posts (although the last couple have been in the same reasonable tone as the other posters in this thread). Shoot, nobody's even suggested the possibility of asking for approval to wear their uniform to sell something besides popcorn! Now, THAT would be worthy of taking them behind the barn for a good switching! (Tongue firmly in cheek.) Vicki

Pack, not bad! "perhaps there is a non-competitive aspect to this sale that needs to be re-examined." If I remember my economics classes correctly there are always factors that detract from achieving a pure solution. In this case, I think several of them have been suggested - councils which frown on approving fundraisers for troops/packs that don't sell popcorn, consumers who feel they must purchase or else feel guilt and the influence of large corporations making large purchases (then deduct at least 50% of the expense). I know there are a couple of scouters out there with a firmer grasp of economics who could flesh this thought out better... Vicki (edited to correct a mis-spelling) (This message has been edited by Vicki)

Glad common sense and compassion prevailed! Also glad the scout didn't, in a fit of disgust and understandable anger, destroy the documents. In my youth, I could see myself doing something like that. Throwing it in a drawer was a relatively mild response. Vicki

My observation would be that once a person has apologized, it can be difficult to forgive. Once you've accepted an apology, to belabor the point is rude and indicates an unwillingness to forgive. Which is fine, to forgive is a personal choice, but I also think that to start an entire thread on the topic is inviting negative comments and, in a way, creating unnecessary pain for all concerned. Reading the posts, it obviously isn't helping anyone and is, indeed, creating further divisiveness. I did hear my first Katrina joke today - "Did you hear what President Bush had to say about Roe v. Wade? Answer: I don't care how you get out of New Orleans, just get out!" Vicki Vicki

I think the intent of 9b is more along the lines of attending, for instance, the large Hispanic festival held in our area. You are literally surrounded by Hispanic culture including people, language, food, music, dance, art, clothing, etc. I don't see National as doing that. Vicki