Vicki

ladyleader, you can choose to attend WB. You are assigned your critter, your patrol and your Troop Guide. Your Troop Guide is the person who will help you craft and implement your ticket and will decide if you've completed your ticket to WB standards. Vicki

Will wrote: "One thing of note is that you have to be trained in your primary position, and your ticket is written for that position." While this is generally true, it's very dependent on how your course director and troop guide see it. My ticket had a couple of items that, strictly speaking, weren't directly related to my primary position because I was wearing a couple of different hats at the time. And yes, it was a mountaintop experience for me. Not for everybody in our troop, or even our patrol, but it was for me. Even having had several corporate management courses and a lot of OTJ, backpacking, etc. Also, staff did a pretty good job of setting up our patrols so those of us with a lot of experience (and not necessarily just scouting experience) balanced out those who didn't. Vicki (used ta be a Bear)

Well, I can tell you that if we had had one in the dining hall at Beaumont, GSLAC, two years ago (may have been three) at an August Webelos camp a scout leader who had a heart attack might be alive. If we had had one at Christ Memorial Lutheran Church in St. Louis (CO) where we were doing Scouting for Food four years ago (might have been five) a Scouter who had a heart attack might be alive. Everything that could have been done was done for these two, but it's a fact that a much higher percentage are saved by the use of an AED than just CPR. They are easy to use, can be used by anyone who can stay calm enough to follow the pictographs and should be left out in a windowed cabinet where anyone can see them. Vicki

Gonzo, to be honest I'm kinda surprised some other Christian in this thread didn't pick up on it, but April is the most sacred holiday of all - Easter. Referring to your tree, of course. Realize that was awhile back. Vicki(This message has been edited by Vicki)

At the risk of perpetuating a thread hijack - my beloved spouse would get along splendidly with your wife, Trev, and with you, SR540! Not only does he have an impaired time sense, but he can't wear a watch. They literally just stop working after a short period of time. Cell phones have improved our relationship - not only does he have a clock handy, but I can call him. He, too, has an infallible sense of direction. I do not. Now that I have a compass in my vehicle, I have some inkling of what it must be like to have such a talent and how frustrating it must be for him that I do not. Aren't compatible differences wonderful? Trev, this statement, "time is a measureless dimension impervious to calibration." is just sheer poetry. Vicki(This message has been edited by Vicki)

While I would not appreciate your CDs attitude either, might I suggest that if you were wearing the hat assigned to you at check-in - the green hat with the ax and log logo - you were in official BSA uniform. That hat is part of the official BSA dress uniform for Wood Badge. If you were wearing, for instance, a Cardinals hat, well, that's a whole different matter. We kept our hats on for flags and I had no problem at all wearing my hat. Vicki

Gonzo - oh my, no, not Lieutenant Commander, I assume that was a joke I didn't get? Yes, I meant Camp Director. V

Thanks for the reply, E-P. Didn't mean to sound over-sensitive. Really dislike that about e-mail:

Another thought - having been in the non-profit sector for some time, there is customarily a raft of paperwork that has to be filed to attain that status. If your council sticks to their reading of the rules (and I agree with others here that their reading is incorrect), you could ask them for a copy of their filing. You don't need the whole thing, just the one or two page cover document that goes with everything else. The IRS even accepts that as temporary proof of non-profit status for filing purposes. I also like the idea of going to the agency. Vicki

Well, yeah, Eagle Pete, and I've read it before. Nowhere does it say anything about practicing ceremonies or where/how/when to do them. So by omission I assumed we were OK. But there is a huge chasm between what is actually in writing and what can be assumed by its absence. Hence my question. Where there's a campsite flagpole, it's easy. You run the scouts through in teams for flag raising and lowering and they all get a chance to fulfill the requirement. To be honest, this was the first camp I'd been to that didn't have campsite flagpoles. Sheltered, I guess. Vicki

OK, you veterans out there, let me relate a short-hand version of something that happened at a summer camp I attended just this past summer. I really want to hear your opinions. The troop I currently serve has a serious lack of veterans (my older son's troop has at least two Marines, 'nuff said). There were no campsite flagpoles. We approached the CD about using the paradeground flags and poles to complete the requisite requirements for our younger scouts. He said fine. Next thing we know a grizzled old WWII vet had read the CD the riot act and then followed the CD out to tell us that what we were doing was totally inappropriate, that we had desecrated the flag and surrendered the field to any enemy that might have been present - once the camp flag is up, it stays up. In spite of the fact that all this happened in front of the scouts, troop leadership was very cool about it, said they would get the BSA book on flags and read it. I was left to continue soothing ruffled feathers (I'm not quite sure why, other than I've dealt with a lot of military types in my time - DH in the Navy - maybe it showed). But I really felt that the vet way over-reacted and he did eventually agree that perhaps he did. A quiet conversation between him and the leadership present would have sufficed. OTOH, I would certainly be the last to want to commit an egregious violation of flag etiquette. I believe in what the flag represents. I think I can also guarantee that we will NEVER ask to use the paradeground again. What do y'all think? Thanks, Vicki

Trev, I don't think we're disagreeing, believe it or not. You obviously know your council's position on the subject (since you used it as a reference). But oldsm is asking our opinion on this topic and while information is valuable, "free advice is worth what you pay for it". I have learned from this forum (and Scouts-L) that different districts and councils have different ways of doing things. I have learned that the pickiest things can cause a scout difficulty - ref the long thread on "six months" before advancing and how even ONE DAY can cause a scout somewhere enormous headaches. How, on the other end of the spectrum, any old warm body can be a MB counselor in some councils. So all I'm saying is that a call (or a discussion at RT), armed with the opinions gathered here, would clarify this situation for oldsm in his specific situation. Might even be helpful for us to here about the result of such a call... Vicki

I would ask the Advancement Chair for the District or Council what counts. Realistically, unless you want to go over their head (and, in our district at least, I'd want to be REALLY sure of winning the point before I did that and then I'd apologize REALLY big to the AC - he was my TG at Adult Leader Training and recruited me for training staff) that's whose reading of the "good book" matters. Bottom line, I wouldn't want to get to where the records are being reviewed for Eagle and have somebody say, "hmmm, no, APL doesn't count, what made you think Patrol Scribe counted?" and have to say, "oh, we debated it on scouter.com and that was the consensus." Vicki

Well, I'll be darned. Now that I've learned something new, I guess I can just go home for the day! The Greater St. Louis Area Council has a spring Camporee and a fall Pacao (stands for Pack Campout). Both events have a Troop side and a Pack side with separate day-time events. Most troops seem to invite their associated pack(s) over for either lunch or night-time cobbler or both. There is much fraternization between leaders. It's kind of a blast, actually. Just last year, packs were invited to camp with their associated troops at the spring event. Mixed reviews as to the success of that, as you may imagine. Vicki

I'm with Baden on this one. Associated with two troops at the moment (Advancement Chair for one until just recently) and very few of the scouts will wear their mb sashes at all! Including my 14 year old Life scout - who also has to be threatened with life and limb to wear the socks and keep his shirt tucked in for more than the actual time the COH lasts. This adult garbage is almost more than a person can take sometimes. Vicki (having a hard time w/some adults this a.m., so if this is a little over the top, well, sorry about that)(This message has been edited by Vicki)

bucabaker, I had the same problem (as a female type who doesn't carry a purse) - I put my admittedly very slender wallet in the side leg pocket. Interesting sidenote, as a 6' female of reasonable proportions, I ended up buying men's pants. Vicki

Liz, you're absolutely right. My husky 12 year old could barely button the waist and the legs were probably about a foot too long. He was so crestfallen, I would gladly have traded my fit for his. Unfortunately, it doesn't work that way. My 14 year old, normal build, can't wear them either. Vicki(This message has been edited by Vicki)

Wait a minute Trev, just so I'm sure I understand - no baby back ribs? Oh my, you'll have to set me on my horse and put a rope around my neck... Vicki

OGE, you just asked the $64,000 question. BTW, just on the off-chance that anyone in the St. Louis area is (a) reading this and (b) intending to try to see Mr. Danforth - he will also be at Ladue Chapel, 9450 Clayton Rd. 63124 on 9/21 at 7 pm. Vicki(This message has been edited by Vicki)

But Gern, that's the beauty of it all! Just whip out that belt you detest and use the belt loops. I love the feel of supplex. I really like my new pants. I think they look good, too. Vicki

I am quite possibly going to be starting seminary in January - when I told the pastor responsible for admissions that I couldn't start in September because I had to scale back my BSA commitments first, her reply was, "Oh, Boy Scouts, I was involved with that. They ask for more commitment than parishioners." Just for a little bit of perspective. Vicki a good ol'Bear, too!

I didn't get it and my e-mail address is all over the place! Orennoah, sign me up:

OGE wrote >I know you guys like to horse around, did you ever see the story of Tonto's friend in Japan? The Roan Ranger?>> (GROAN) OGE, wouldn't that be the Ronin Ranger? Vicki

ASM59 initially posted >Scout2 sat down with the Committee Members for his BOR and presented his book to them. None of the Life requirements were checked off, initialed or signed.> ASM59, later posted >The only advancement requirements missing that either did not happen or I am not sure of are: - The missing SM conference - Req. 4; While a Star Scout, take part in service projects totaling at least 6 hours of work. > While I realize there are only five requirements (outside of SM conf and BOR), these two are mutually exclusive statements. Also, reviewing the requirements, only the required MBs appear to be "externally verifiable." Stated another way, the requirements can be subjective and, in the absence of any troop rules, are up to the SM to determine whether or not they've been satisfied. This leads me to ask, and I don't intend to be rude, but have you actually seen this Scout's book or are you going by what you've heard? Dangerous route, if it's the latter. Vicki

Eamonn wrote >If I were to write the same check to the Elk's Lodge 777 I could claim the deduction. But while I'm sure they would turn the money over to the Ship, if the decided not to, I'd have no say in the matter. > Eamonn, you are normally right on track with your statements, but this one is all wrong. You have all the say in the matter. Many a 501©(3) has lost its tax-exempt status or, at the very least, found itself in court on the losing end over this sort of behavior. Donors MUST be able to trust the organization to handle directed donations appropriately. The only options a 501©(3) has are 1) take the donation and forward it on, 2) try to talk the donor out of directing the donation, or 3) turn it down. Vicki