Vicki

Eamonn, I've noticed that whenever I go to a district or council event (haven't been to a Jambo)- whether it's NYLT, Wood Badge, Leader Training, pick one, there stands a dedicated corps of folks who are usually up later than I am (not hard) or earlier than I am (that's a little harder). I always stand in awe of the QM Corps. Vicki

I can echo Pack378's endorsement of HorseandElephant. I bought an embroidered hoodie from them - fast shipping, good communication, a pleasant experience. You almost can't help tripping over them if you're looking for scout stuff on ebay. Vicki

"My son will have no problem forgiving him, all he has to do is ask. Thanks again, I will take the first step and talk to the SM so we can work it out. Hopefully this will be a good learning lesson for him." The hardest thing to do in the world is to forgive someone who hasn't said they're sorry (and may not think they need to apologize or that they already have). Your son (and you) need to forgive the SM without the SM asking him to - that's the lesson here. That's what giving someone the benefit of the doubt is all about. Withholding your attendance at meetings will hurt you the most. It's time to suck it up, get to the next meeting, and forget about it. Life's too short. Other than that, I'll just echo what Beav and Mark have said. Vicki

Friend of mine back in the day had a wife similar to GW's description. He's a real gentleman. She got a temporary restraining order just on her say-so. He scheduled a time to go back and get his stuff, she was waiting for him with the police. I had prevailed upon him to call the police ahead of time (knowing her and being just a little older and less trusting) and let me accompany him. He didn't have to spend the night in jail and the police got to see her screaming at him with absolutely no provocation from him. They also got to see how she had torn up the place with a butcher knife - pretty sure she was going to try to blame him for that in order to get custody of their daughter. Lots of variation in how judges behave across jurisdictions, nldscout. Vicki

"Clothing malfunction!" - I nearly spit out my coffee!! Thinking about all the clothing malfunctions I have had the opportunity to "not see" on campouts. Oh my, thanks for that one! Hey, and Beavah, one more string to show up in that "how weird can liability questions get" search, eh? I don't think this one trumps blue cards though. Vicki

GW, you make me smile. Thanks! Vicki

Lisabob wrote "Vicki, That's an interesting way of doing things. I'm guessing you are aware that it doesn't quite jive with the procedures spelled out by the BSA? Have you ever been questioned on this by your district advancement chair or some scout who did not successfully conclude his BoR? (I've often thought it would make more sense to have some youth input on the BoRs anyway - I'm just wondering where your troop is coming from on this.) " Yep, I'm aware of that. My understanding is that it's actually kind of a throwback to the way things "used to be." Two different districts and nary a question asked by any poobah. But then the entire council is sometimes a little contrarian as far as national is concerned (mainly because we're kind of a 300 lb. gorilla, from what I hear - I'm not far enough up the food chain to have more than hearsay, thank heaven). Scouts don't know any better as a rule, but the ground rules for our BORs are really clearly set out, so we don't have many that don't complete it successfully and the ones who don't know exactly what they need to do. The main point is to get the older scouts involved with the younger scouts and let the younger scouts see that we do value the opinions and viewpoints of the scouts - it's not just more lip service from adults. They take it pretty seriously - it's an indication of the respect they've earned and they don't mess it up. Vicki (This message has been edited by Vicki)

Both troops I've served have done them pretty much on demand - and scouts serve on them. General rule being, for up to first class, one scout Star and above can serve. For Star it has to be Life or Eagle. For Life it has to be an Eagle. (One rank up after first class would be another way to put it.) One parent can serve as long as it's not the parent of the scout doing the BOR. So only one member of the committee HAS to be part of the BOR. Vicki

No, that would be wonton:

Scoutldr, I would spend the postage and mail it to his last fixed address (not a college address). There were several things from my youth that I didn't think were important at the time but I'm really glad my parents squirrelled them away! SSScout - I really like that concept of an ECOH, I think we get way too wound up in the "ceremony thing." Gonna remember that one! Beav, EagleDad, I had the community speech used on me in the context of my Wood Badge beads:

GW, since I have been specifically addressed as one whose word is somehow lacking veracity (which is fine, proofs are a good thing, but this debate is getting silly) - different professions have very specific meanings for the words used - willful (one l) and wanton (not wantfull) being very specific words with very specific meanings in the legal profession. Beavah (not Beaver) defined them quite nicely and demonstrated that endless patience that OGE referred to in one of the endless Ed/Merlyn threads. Others have chimed in from their experience and education. I said my say in the thread that begat this one (on blue cards). But we can belabor this point, especially for the benefit of anyone who might come along and perhaps be concerned. As others (and I) have posted in various ways, insurance is for when accident/stupid happens and cases are handled individually. The council office I spoke with didn't know of a single case where insurance didn't cover someone. I don't believe, in any of the numerous discussions on the topic, anyone in this forum has come up with one. Court costs have been incurred, if I remember one thread correctly, but that's not the same thing. Not quite QED, but the anecdotal evidence seems conclusive enough. And you flushed a couple more folks out of the brush to share their experience, always helpful. Vicki (not Viki)(This message has been edited by Vicki)

I like my Gerber, which has almost the same description as Ed's knife. Other folks have liked my Gerber too, but I've managed not to lose it:

Wow, and a swipe at Wood Badgers, too. Interesting. I mention it only because, since I do have some insurance experience, and it was of benefit to my troop leadership, one of my ticket items was to get information on the BSA insurance system, interview the person responsible for insurance in our council, write it up, have them review it, and then present it to the leadership. But you are certainly welcome to your own interpretation, based on your reading of the material. Vicki

GW, in general, if someone's statements are consistent with my own experience then I will back that person up when discussion ensues - whether that's insurance or blue cards. Vicki(This message has been edited by Vicki)

DH - Dear Husband. One of the oldest internet shorthands in the book. Also known variously as my beloved, Navy vet, once-upon-a-time martial artist, sensitive soul, etc.:

Interesting, GW. First it's "going the way of the GSUSA," then it's "running to momma and hide behind her." I've known at least as many fathers who helicoptered as mothers (and I guarantee you neither my father nor my mother helicopter over either of my sons - my DH is the one who asked my folks not to allow my sons to climb too high in the trees in their back yard after he saw a picture of them in aforementioned trees - I told him he had to ask, I wasn't having anything to do with it). Looking at the insert in my Scout handbook, it doesn't specify which parent, it just says "A child must feel comfortable telling his parent" - a thread that runs through the material. Vicki

Aquila, I thought about that after I posted it and decided not to edit. Perhaps I should have, I'll admit, it's a little bit of a soapbox of mine (OK, it's a really TALL soapbox of mine) and sharp comments do nothing to persuade. But the number of my well-meaning fellow Scouters who go on and on about the wonders of the outdoors (and I AGREE with them), but dismiss technology with a wave and a, "oh, that electronic stuff (not the word used), it's not like when I WAS A BOY" just make me sigh. Vicki

I don't have a problem with these requirements either, actually. But then, I think there's a lot of adults out there who don't realize that the bullying (along with porn and all the other garbage out there) can now be brought right into your home and have an enormous, world-wide, reach. In a suburb of St. Louis recently, a girl (who admittedly had problems with clinical depression) committed suicide after a neighbor's child AND HER MOTHER started a MySpace hoax, creating a fictional boy named Josh who gained Megan's confidence, then turned cruel. In another case, a "friend" got the password to a Facebook page and changed everything on it. Then there's the well-known case of a "friend" who texted a lie that a girl had an STD which ended up displayed on the Jumbotron at a professional football game. The more ways a kid hears about this and learns to recognize it, the better. As a parent, I have sometimes felt all alone out there, warning my guys. If they hear about it at church, at scouts, at school, etc., so much the better. If these new requirements help a scout leader get over his/her luddite tendencies and understand the world our kids live in a little better, great. The neighborhood bully is a lot bigger, nastier, and more dangerous than he used to be, largely because the neighborhood is a lot bigger, nastier, and more dangerous than it used to be. Our principles still apply, but we need to apply them to this new reality. Vicki

GW, not quite sure why this got so personal for you, but, in general, I've found Beavah's insurance advice sound - and I'll add I have quite a bit of experience in the insurance area, particularly big, scarey, corporate liability insurance and self-insurance (and the BSA is both). Lots of opinions, very little fact. That's largely because if you have to go there, each case is taken on its own merits and an insurance person or attorney would be an idiot to give an advance opinion based on a hypothetical situation (or even a non-hypothetical without access to all the facts). The general rule is insurance is for accidents and/or idiots. Then the BSA (and/or your CO) gets to decide if you get to keep your charter, based on how stupid you were. Laymen's language. And hey, now yet another thread will come up if someone searches for insurance (referencing a thread on that topic going on elsewhere)! This is even wackier than a DO discussion turning into insurance - at least there we were discussing fire and heavy metal objects (not Led Zeppelin). On the topic at hand, from the BSA side, I've also had the opportunity to learn how the way councils do things varies widely across the country, or even within the council. Sometimes you'd hardly think they're in the same organization:

I would also suggest not putting them in the dryer. Sustained heat will wear out the nylon faster. Vicki

BrentAllen, I'll be a TG for C-04-08 - two weekends in August. I couldn't agree more on the idea of drinking from a firehose. That's exactly what it felt like. Vicki

Silly English ka-nighits!! DH has staffed any number of the Cub Scout side of camporees. My favorite activity that he put together was a couple of stiff cardboard castles, he contacted Gateway for soft plastic cows, and asked each pack to build a small (no more than 18" high, nothing stronger than a 1/4" rubber band, I believe) catapult. I believe there are even diagrams for them. He handed out a cow to each pack at Roundtable with which to practice. THAT one was a lot of fun. Vicki

As with kb6jra, I will only be paying for groceries, not the full participant fee. Like BrentAllen, I see it as a HUGE learning opportunity to be on staff! Even though I'd had most of the training in some shape or form through corporate training courses, having it all there in one place presented in a group format of 6 or less, with open-ended access to the instructors and material - Wow! I made all kinds of connections (knowledge, not social, but there was that element too) but it was a blur. I have to admit that I would have a hard time justifying paying the full course fee on top of everything else to myself. Right now, I'm just really looking forward to my first round as a staffer. Vicki(This message has been edited by Vicki)

Me and OGE! And I got a call last weekend - I get to go back to Gilwell as a TG for C-04-08! Yippee!!! I used to be an Bear, and a Good Old Bear too, But now I've finished Bearing and I don't know what to do. I'm growing old and feeble, and I can Bare no more! So I'm going to work my ticket if I can! Back to Gilwell, Happy Land, I'm going to work my ticket if I can! Energetic 8-Clawed Bears Vicki

Yep, same problem. I copy and paste my message into Word, delete the message I'm trying to edit, then paste my message from Word into a new one. Easier than trying to find every cotton' pickin' apostrophe and then STILL get that &*()*& message! Vicki