Twocubdad

I suppose ruts are like holes. The first step in getting out of a hole is to quit digging. The first rule of getting out of a rut is to quit riding through it. OGE''s right. Figure out what works and what doesn't the plan your calendar accordingly. One of the hallmarks of a good leader is knowing when to shake up the organization. As far as the Boy Scout troop goes, play dumb. "Gosh, I would have never imagined the Boy Scouts would have wanted to participate in the Pinewood Derby. It never occurred to me we shouldn't have it the same weekend as your campout." "We're not comfortable with our younger boys going on the campout with the troop. The level of difficulty is too much for them, plus we want to give them something to look forward to when they're older. Have you spoken to the Webelos II den? The outing may be more appropriate for them." Be very careful with this, but I may have a very quiet conversation with the COR or unit commissioner regarding the troop's program. If the leaders are clingiing to the Cub Scout program and are losing boys after a couple of years because of it, the COR may want to nudge the program in a different direction. It would be interesting to know why the troop is doing this -- none of our business, but interesting. Do they think this is a good transition program? Were the programs developed for the convenience of leaders with boys in both the troop and pack? It strikes me as odd as the problem is more often with new troop leaders who think their new Scouts need to tackle Denali right off the bat. I'm not familiar with a troop clinging to the cub program like this.

THAT'S WHAT i'M TALKING ABOUT!! And I love "baggie syndrome". That's what I'm trying to avoid.

NOOOOOOO! (Waving arms, throwing body in front of keyboard.) Leave the "Last 24" function alone! Add a "last week" sort, but the "last 24" works well.

Question -- where is the button to start a new topic? Problem -- some threads, like this one, still don't show a second page. Shows "page 1 of 1" . When you manually enter a "2" it will re-calculate and show the second page. This seems to have been fixed on some threads/forums. Preference -- I liked the old function of providing links by page number next to the main link to the first page of the thread. This allowed me to jump to the last page I read and pick up the thread. Now I have to go to page one of a thread, figure out how many pages there are and go from there. This is difficult now since the number of posts apparently counts comments, and in light of the above problem. Opportunity -- Forget who was asking this, but if you'll notice on the "active in the past 24" list, the little page icon to the left of the thread name will be blue if there are unread messages in the thread or white if you've read everything. TERRY -- CONTINUING APPRECIATION FOR YOUR CONTINUING EFFORTS! (E92 -- yeah, I'm yellin' or whatever).

Over time we've built up a stash of badges. We present both the cards and badges the same night at the Board of Review, if possible. Later, when the advancement reports are submitted, we get the new patch and restock our stash. Here at least, the cards are unrestricted, so having a stack of them available is no problem. Even if you don't have the patches, you can present the cards immediately.

What happened in the past happened in the past. Yes, the mom was an idiot and the old unit leaders were morons. But as Pumba said, 'Put the past in your behind." My issue is the current troop leaders are trying to solve the problem and in fact have a tentative solution, but the mom is still being an idiot and still doesn't want her son registered. So where is the problem now? No, I wouldn't really tell the scout his mother is an idiot, but you wanna bet she has no problems throwing the troop leaders under the bus?

I'd like to come up with a new model for COHs. We present awards immediately, most of the time we have both advancement cards and badges immediately following a BOR. Consequently COHs end up being the scout standing while someone reads a list of stuff he earned weeks/months ago. Past age 12, our guys really don't care. You can tell in their faces the immediate recognition of their accomplishement circled up around the campfire is important. But months later it just seems lame. For the sake of discussion, if you were going to reinvent the Court of Honor what would you do? I can envision more of a Scout Show feel, with each patrol creating a "booth" where they show off something they've learned or done recently. Maybe the cook a new dish they've learned. build a lashing project or demonstrate another scout skill, even a science fair-style display of a merit badge they've earned. Insteading of reading list of MBs, we would be out on the lawn (or better yet in the woods) doing stuff. If you had to blow up your COH script and start over, what would you do?

So what do retired Popes do? Can we expect photos in People of him in a Speedo and expensive sunglasses on some beach in the Med? Or in a big cardigan eating oranges in an olive grove (a la Michael Corleone in Godfather III)? I'm betting on the Godfather thing.

How about the "Overcoming Genetics" award?

"Unofficial Eagle" is a terrible, terrible idea, Fred. I do like your last thought, however. How about "Your mother has made the decision not to register you as a member of the Boy Scouts therefore you cannot be an Eagle Scout. Both the troop and council have offered to do everything we can to fix this and try to get you the award but your mother said no. " It's really hard to fix stupid.

I've had Scouts like this. They don't stay around long. Scouting is a group activity. There may be some things you can do here and there on your own, but if the fella isn't willing to at least TRY to work and play with the other kids, he's just making himself and others miserable. He should pull his weight or go home. That's just how it is. How are the other Scouts learning teamwork and leadership when they create a duty roster and this kid constantly blows it off? How does the buddy system work when he takes off by himself? How much fun is it to be this guy's PL or tent mate? Unless your troop is sponsored by a pediatric counseling center, you have to go with what the dad tells you. If the Scout has undiagnosed issues or if the dad is unwilling to share, your hands are tied. Have a sit-down and set clear expectatons for cooperation. Don't sugar coat it. Then send him home when he doesn't meet them.

He can do that? At least now my Scouts will have a chance to understand what I mean when I ask if we have "white smoke" coming from a Board of Review.

I can't argue with you, Moose. I clearly see your point of view and personally agree with much of what you're saying. But the title of this thread references dealing with practical problems. My practical problem is being in a fairly conservative part of the country, with a fairly conservative CO and families with a variety of political and social views. Little ol' me is naive enough to think we're here to serve youth, not wage the latest battle of the culture war. I'm looking for a reasonable accommodation which allows us to be accepting of all youth, keeping our CO happy and supportive, and leaving the politics at the curb. Frankly, if I push your point of view we will end up with a "no way, no time, no how" troop policy. That's an easy solution to administer and has the added benefit of running off anyone who disagrees. Unless we want to see BSA polarize into intolerant, homophobic troops vs. open, if-it-feels-good-do-it units, then those of us trying to find acceptable middle ground need to start coming up with some answers.

This seems like one f those things where we really can't get the sense of the nuances involved here. I would be inclined to trust the decision of the board. That said, I think Vini is on the right track. What's up with the kid? Does he usually behave this way? From your description it's hard to tell if he's being a jackass or depressed. This is where you want really good, experienced folks on the board who have the sense to understand that everything doesn't revolve around Scouting. You put off the BOR and get to the bottom of what's up with the attitude. If the kid was just being a PIA, the board may have been justified in it's decision, but they could have handled it better. They let him control the situation. They way they win that game is by not playing. Denying the rank essentially escalated the problem. The high road would have been to tell the kid "you seem to be having a bad day. Perhaps we should put this off a week." At this point, Solo, you need to sort things out and settle things down. Talk to the Scout and see if you can find out what's up with him. Why was he behaving the way he was? Is this a Scouting problem or is something deeper going on with him. Filing an appeal isn't going to help things. Talk with his parents. They need to chil out and help you understand what's going on with their son. If there are deeper issues going on, maybe dealing with another BOR isn't the best thing for the young man. Once you find out what's up, then you can make a plan for moving forward.

It's a fine line, huh, Moose? Probably more like "if the wrong person finds out." But I think BSA has been pretty clear it has had no interest in operating a star chamber. In the case you mentioned, I believe it was a "she" picked up by her significant other. Actually, that is the case I had in mind when I posted. When the mom was picked up early from a campout, one of the ASMs -- a member of the CO -- asked who the other woman was and was told she was the mom's partner. He reported the information to the CO and it was the church who removed the woman from the unit. BSA was asked repeatedly about the situation and responded the mom had been removed by the CO. BSA had nothing to do with the removal and repeatedly said so. Sounds like a look into the future, no? I'm not aware of a case where someone was involuntarily "outed" to BSA and removed from membership without that person "avowing" to be homosexual. Of course my Omnipotence Chit has expired, so just because I don't know of such a case doesn't mean much. All this interests me as somewhere in all this mess is a reasonable accomodation. My underlying premise is sexuality has no place in a program for young boys. I don't have an interest in one's orientation either way. What you do (or who you do) away from the unit doesn't concern me much. But when you bring it into the unit, it's a problem. I don't care if it's someone wanting a float in the gay pride parade or boasting of his/her conquests last weekend. And I have to think anyone --male or female -- hitting on the Tiger moms isn't going to be tolerated. Not around here, anyway. Problem is, I don't care to crank up the inquisition either. I'd be happy if everyone kept their business to themselves and just focused on delivering the program.

Thanks, Skip. As with Trev's youth member, I wouldn't have an issue with your lady skipper, either. I'm not (yet) certain how our sponsoring church will respond, but we'll see. But your lady skipper is really an example of how BSA policy works NOW, with the so-called don't-ask/don't-tell policy. Depending on the chartered organization, a homosexual leader who is descrete about their situation could be -- and are -- welcome in many units currently. True, there have been instances where homosexuals have been "outed" and removed by their CO, which is why I preface this with "depending on the CO." Perhaps with the more liberal rules in the UK, your volunteer was a bit more open about her relationship than she could be here, but to me that's just a matter of degree. And I think you are correct that the Scouts will be very accepting of homosexuals. They are also very accepting of the kid who brags about hitting 120mph in his Mustang, the kid who got busted for pot, the four kids hospialized for for alcohol poisoning and the couple caught having sex in a store room at a local school. Yes, young people can be very accepting. Much of what we are dealing with it this is a very viceral and emotional to many folks. Their view's on homosexual are based on their faith and moral values, not statistical analysis. Then consider we are dealing with their CHILDREN, you add layers and layers of emotion and fear to the situation.

Trev -- I'd have absolutely no problem with that Scout in my Troop. Skip -- I'd love to hear the thoughts of an arrogant European liberal on the topic. :-)

Barry beat me to it. At 17 it IS all about sex. A lot of your stuff is pretty out there, Mike. Fact is with a local option you get to decide what's over the line. BLT (whatever) parade? No. Transgender girl? No. Creepy adult. No. You can beat around all the political issues you like, but the bottom line for me is THIS IS A FRIGGIN' SCOUT TROOP and I don't get paid to deal with all the fallout and crap which will come from the above. I do believe you have a point when it comes to the logistics of campouts. My 20-something son agrees with Calico and doesn't think it's an issue. My 20-something son doesn't have a 12-year-old child in the troop and doesn't have to answer to the parents who don't want their sons exposed to whatever is going on in the next tent. Logically, it's difficult for me to get past the comparison of allowing girls in the troop. The same parents wouldn't want their sons exposed to whatever is going on in the next tent if it were a boy and girl. We have substantial YP guidelines for dealing with co-ed groups and I would expect -- make that hope -- national will be forthcoming with similar guidelines. I say hope because it wouldn't surprise me at all if national punts this to the COs too

I would work through the council volunteers. Contact the council president personally. In theory, the district committee is answerable to the council committee of which the president is chairman. The truth is the SE is the one calling these shots and setting the goals for the DE. But I think complaining to the SE will only cause more problems for your DE (unless that's your intent). In addition to not being able to meet his goals, he will get dinged for not being able to control his volunteers. Bottom line the goals are for the DE not the committee. You are volunteers. What, you won't get your bonus at year end? Been through this with fundraising goals. Council gave us crazy goals which were a huge increase over the previous year AND percentage-wise higher than the other districts. When the district committee balked, we were politely told the council set the goals and they would find volunteers to staff the district committee which were committed to meeting the goals. We told them to go ahead. (Actually, I'm quite sure that message was never delivered.) In the end, we did what we were going to do any way, of course the council didn't replace a soul (I'm still chuckling at the thought) and we raised a little more than we did the previous year in line with what should have been a reasonable goal.

"But mom says no on that." DONE! Next problem? Mommy Dearest made her choice years ago. She's not even changing her mind, she just expects everyone to conform to her view of the world. But she's been given her options and needs to take one. Of if she wants to take the time to negotiate something different with the council/national, let her have at it. Definitely wash your hands of this nut.

Doesn't the goundhog get to go back in his den and sleep till then? Sounds like a plan. Letting the 1400 members vote at the national meeting has to be be better than 15 on the executive board. Does anyone know who the voting members are or how they are selected? I'm assuming council reps.

SP-- You have GOT to get that guy on Youtube!

The US Army Bands' web site has a great section on bugle calls, too. It includes both the sheet music and a MP3 of the call itself.

One of the first Scoutcasts was on topic. www.scouting.org/Scoutcast/Scoutcast/2013.aspx This guy is a very reasonable approach to teasing and bullying in that it makes a distinction between the sort of teasing boys do with their friends and more serious bullying.

To a casual observer, I don't know that our troop meetings are significantly different from yours. The big difference is the boys are planning and executing whatever is going on. As far as the content of troop meetings, we don't do merit badge classes either, but we very frequently use merit badge "topics" for troop meetings. The programs are based on the merit badges but don't specifically cover the requirements. If a Scout is interested in earning the badge, paying attention and taking notes will get him a long way down the road of earning the badge. But each Scout still has to pull a blue card, meet with the counselor and complete the specifics of the requirement. You know -- show a little initiative and put forth some effort. We will frequently do merit badge topics as a troop but then have NO ONE actually earn the MB. At first, that's a hard pill for the adults to swallow, but the adults have to realize that not every activity has to result in a badge. If the boys had fun and learned something, it was worthwhile. One thing which makes this successful is understanding that the program can be boy led, but still involve an adult standing up making the presentation. Last year we did engineering as a month-long topic. The boys planned it but invited different adults -- all of whom were already affiliated with the troop -- to talk about their particular branch of engineering. Face it, having a 14-year-old stand there and try to talk about engineering would have been bloody boring. The youth leadership came in the planning and organization. The patrol competitions which accompanied this included the patrols using what the learned to build a popsicle stick bridges and seeing which bridges held the most weight. Yeah, that's also a Webelos activity pin, but in we had the boys do 100% of the design and construction themselves. Keeping the older boys engaged is going to be tough. If they have been taught to passively sit back and be entertained and collect MBs for doing so, they're probably going to be unhappy with the new system. Leading the troop is difficult and frustrating. If the boys haven't been brought along in the troop looking up to older guys in leadership positions, they may very likely only see the down side of being a leader. And you may lose a few. Sometimes that is the price of change. You have to see the value of change and stick to your vision regardless of the losses. If you are looking for a check list of syllabus for making the change, I don't think you are going to find on. You have to keep the pressure on and everytime the boys relax, you push them a little further toward boy led. Your job is to clearly communicate what the end result looks like and keep that vision in front of the scouts and adults. You will get there eventually.